"The Right Climate Stuff" .... A realistic view of global environmental issues from Tom Moser

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There is evidence that Sahara region was a lush jungle that its size would put the Amazon to shame. And it wasn't even that long ago, as the Sphinx shows rain water damage. It is now a dessert and we do not know why.

CO2 is just a boogeyman used to create a whole new industry, revenue stream and a way to control people and whole countries.
The carbon credit exchange has been around in Europe for like two decades now, in US and Canada around 15 years, what exactly have they accomplished with all the money they've collected? Absolutley nothing, just more "evidence" of doom only to collect even more.
 
I remember a thread here not too long ago talking about the effects of other gases being a higher contributor than Co2.

www.epa.gov

Climate Change Indicators: Greenhouse Gases | US EPA

Greenhouse Gases
www.epa.gov www.epa.gov

Here's a chart from the EPA website
Greenhouse gasHow it's producedAverage lifetime in the atmosphere100-year global warming potential
Carbon dioxideEmitted primarily through the burning of fossil fuels (oil, natural gas, and coal), solid waste, and trees and wood products. Changes in land use also play a role. Deforestation and soil degradation add carbon dioxide to the atmosphere, while forest regrowth takes it out of the atmosphere. see below*1
MethaneEmitted during the production and transport of oil and natural gas as well as coal. Methane emissions also result from livestock and agricultural practices and from the anaerobic decay of organic waste in municipal solid waste landfills. 11.8 years27.0–29.8**
Nitrous oxideEmitted during agricultural and industrial activities, as well as during combustion of fossil fuels and solid waste. 109 years273
Fluorinated gasesA group of gases that contain fluorine, including hydrofluorocarbons, perfluorocarbons, and sulfur hexafluoride, among other chemicals. These gases are emitted from a variety of industrial processes and commercial and household uses and do not occur naturally. Sometimes used as substitutes for ozone-depleting substances such as chlorofluorocarbons. A few weeks to thousands of yearsVaries (the highest is sulfur hexafluoride at 25,200)
 
dnewton3 said:
That's not an unfair criticism. I would counter with this ...
Do we have the infallable science today to claim with the utmost certainty either way; yes or no?
Just 40'ish years ago, then reknowned scientists were telling us we were heading into another ice age; that the Earth was going to be cooling drastically.
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This does not exist anywhere in science and if that's the standard required then we can not use science to make any decisions whatsoever, and yet, that would mean inaction even when we are at best fairly certain based on the data available. That's the best we can ever say, that we believe X, Y, Z is true based on the data available as of right now and all of that could change tomorrow with newer and better data.
 
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I'm not a climate scientist and I don't know the data but the vast majority of climate scientists who do know the data have come to a consensus that human activity is changing the climate. Few if any of you are in a position to claim you know the data either sitting in your armchairs. Call that what you want. An appeal to authority. "A logical fallacy" or whatever because while logical fallacies do exist, they imply the words or work of someone else was twisted in some way to say something that person did not mean to say. The consensus of climate scientists on human activity causing climate change says exactly what they believe it should say and it is not a logical fallacy to defer to them.
 
My biggest concern is I dont care what anyone says. Just let me live my life without interference. Global warming is an agenda to "control" the masses. It's a movement like any cult, with social media and the elite funding it. The sad part is, like a cult, they force you as a free individual to live like they say you should.
The worlds is warming? So let it warm! Who cares? The world will always be here even if they are right! It's laughable that anyone buys into this. Create fear and people will succumb in the name of safety.

It's kind of funny, in the keeping of high end fish tanks and certain horticulture, CO2 is injected into the system to help the plants grow faster.
I just dont get it, how mankind was always controlled by the elite in the name of fear or a threat.
 
dnewton3 said:
The Heartland Institute was the entity that posted the video; that's true. HOWEVER ... the presentation was at the ICCC, The Internation Climate Change Conference hosted by the United Nations.
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What?

The presentation was at the International Conference on Climate Change.

You don't even need to open the video to see this. It's in the video thumbnail across the bottom.

The International Conference on Climate Change is put on by The Heartland Institute, not the UN:

climateconference.heartland.org

WATCH THE WHOLE CONFERENCE - 15th International Conference on Climate Change

Left to right: Rep. Lauren Boebert (R-CO); Sen. Ron Johnson (R-WI); Alex Epstein; and a panel discussion on ESG with Jason Isaac, Paul Watkins, and Marlo Lewis at The Heartland Institute’s 15th International Conference on Climate Change in Orlando Florida in 2023. Saturday, February 25 PATRICK...
climateconference.heartland.org climateconference.heartland.org

It's their conference. Other totally non-political climate experts that spoke at the conference were Lauren Boebert and Ron Johnson.

That you roll this out as an expert speaking "facts" on climate change and don't even understand the venue, host, context, and audience speaks volumes.
 
alarmguy said:
My biggest concern is I dont care what anyone says. Just let me live my life without interference. Global warming is an agenda to "control" the masses. It's a movement like any cult, with social media and the elite funding it. The sad part is, like a cult, they force you as a free individual to live like they say you should.
The worlds is warming? So let it warm! Who cares? The world will always be here even if they are right! It's laughable that anyone buys into this. Create fear and people will succumb in the name of safety.
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Really two different arguments that constantly get conflated. Are humans responsible for climate change and if yes what should we do or not do about it? The problem really being many people are against the idea of human-caused climate change simply because they don't like what the powers that be are trying to do to counter it. Hence, we have crazy resistance to something that is really no different than any other area of science. I don't see people going around vehemently denying the existence of black holes but we probably would if the government imposed save the black hole regulations. Unfortunately, as obvious as it is to you that this is laughable and you can't understand how anyone would buy it, I sit and wonder how many people never give it a second of real consideration simply because they don't like the policies being used to deal with it which of course has no meaningful impact on whether or not it is or is not really happening. As for it being a cult? I have no dog in this fight other than what the consensus of climate scientists are saying and I have no objective reason to disbelieve them. If they're wrong then they are wrong but I don't have the time or expertise to figure this out for myself OBJECTIVELY and neither do 99.999% of Americans.
 
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There is lots work going on in the USA to reduce CO2 output …
But, we need to reduce trade with China to slow the construction of coal plants and other things that work against progress …
Maybe taking some MGO based cargo ships out at the same time …
And for other obvious reasons related to human existence …
 
PWMDMD said:
Really two different arguments that constantly get conflated. Are humans responsible for climate change and if yes what should we do or not do about it?
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Why should we do anything about it? My question to anyone is, why cant I be a free person anymore? Why does someone else get power over how I live my life?
I think those are the real questions. Who cares if some say the world is warming? Let it warm. It is a cult because someone is creating fear in people to succumb to their thinking over nothing. In addition those people the "fear mongers" are the rich and elite who become more rich and elite. That is a cult.
"The sky is falling" ??? Who cares the common people should say, let it fall!
 
PWMDMD said:
Really two different arguments that constantly get conflated. Are humans responsible for climate change and if yes what should we do or not do about it? The problem really being many people are against the idea of human-caused climate change simply because they don't like what the powers that be are trying to do to counter it. Hence, we have crazy resistance to something that is really no different than any other area of science. I don't see people going around vehemently denying the existence of black holes but we probably would if the government imposed save the black hole regulations. Unfortunately, as obvious as it is to you that this is laughable and you can't understand how anyone would buy it, I sit and wonder how many people never give it a second of real consideration simply because they don't like the policies being used to deal with it which of course has no meaningful impact on whether or not it is or is not really happening. As for it being a cult? I have no dog in this fight other than what the consensus of climate scientists are saying. If they're wrong then they are wrong but I don't have the time or expertise to figure this out for myself OBJECTIVELY and neither do 99.999% of Americans.
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Well and that's the problem IMO, we use science to say there is a problem, but then use the least science oriented people, aka politicians to "solve" that problem.

We can definitively use science to evaluate possible solutions and their effectiveness. That is not what an average person is seeing. They see rising energy costs, weird fees attached to the bills, like carbon credits, bans of ICE vehicles, rising fuel costs, talks about carbon footprints, all the things that affect their livelihood. And then they see on TV the same people that want to "save the planet" fly private jets, have multiple mansions, luxury vehicles etc.
Why wouldn't they fight or not believe in the "climate crisis"?
 
alarmguy said:
Why should we do anything about it? My question to anyone is, why cant I be a free person anymore? Why does someone else get power over how I live my life?
I think those are the real questions. Who cares if some say the world is warming? Let it warm. It is a cult because someone is creating fear in people to succumb to their thinking over nothing. In addition those people the "fear mongers" are the rich and elite who become more rich and elite. That is a cult.
"The sky is falling" ??? Who cares the common people should say, let it fall!
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I did not say we should or shouldn't do anything about it - my point is that has nothing to do with whether it is or isn't happening. Climate change registered absolutely no fear in my mind and to me, it just is what it is.
 
PWMDMD said:
I did not say we should or shouldn't do anything about it - my point is that has nothing to do with whether it is or isn't happening. Climate change registered absolutely no fear in my mind and to me, it just is what it is.
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Ok, understand, my point is even if it is happening, the cause will be debated to the end of time, if "they" the powers that be want to change something just make sure it doesnt cost me anything because I could care less. Earths temperature has changed constantly over the last 4+ BILLION years, let it change, I dont need wealthy elitists making money off it and off me. So no, dont do anything about it, there is no reason to.
 
KrisZ said:
Well and that's the problem IMO, we use science to say there is a problem, but then use the least science oriented people, aka politicians to "solve" that problem.

We can definitively use science to evaluate possible solutions and their effectiveness. That is not what an average person is seeing. They see rising energy costs, weird fees attached to the bills, like carbon credits, bans of ICE vehicles, rising fuel costs, talks about carbon footprints, all the things that affect their livelihood. And then they see on TV the same people that want to "save the planet" fly private jets, have multiple mansions, luxury vehicles etc.
Why wouldn't they fight or not believe in the "climate crisis"?
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Ok...but that's not what climate-change deniers claim. They deny the science completely and in that lose credibility when most of them are really fighting against the regulatory policies.
 
alarmguy said:
Why should we do anything about it? My question to anyone is, why cant I be a free person anymore? Why does someone else get power over how I live my life?
I think those are the real questions. Who cares if some say the world is warming? Let it warm. It is a cult because someone is creating fear in people to succumb to their thinking over nothing. In addition those people the "fear mongers" are the rich and elite who become more rich and elite. That is a cult.
"The sky is falling" ??? Who cares the common people should say, let it fall!
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Because the world is becomming unihabitable. That's the science. See post #36.
 
alarmguy said:
Ok, understand, my point is even if it is happening, the cause will be debated to the end of time, if "they" the powers that be want to change something just make sure it doesnt cost me anything because I could care less. Earths temperature has changed constantly over the last 4+ BILLION years, let it change, I dont need wealthy elitists making money off it and off me. So no, dont do anything about it, there is no reason to.
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Just a question - so if climate scientists said sure the climate is constantly changing over long periods of time and the earth has been able to cope with that change over long periods of time but that the change has greatly increased since the beginning of the industrial revolution and that at no time in history has the earth ever been asked to absorb such a fast change in climate and that this could lead to catastrophic consequences never seen prior to modern times then it's still a "who cares?" kinda thing?
 
KrisZ said:
Where is the science that reducing CO2 will make it habitable, or even stop or reverse the change?
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Have you looked for it recently? I'm sure there is some super computer out there running models somewhere but I have not looked myself.
 
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