The Regane / Sea Foam / Lubromoly treatment...

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water injestion only works to remove carbon from the head and top of the piston. very effective in a hot engine

Berryman B12, low cost version of Seafoam.
use one can in 10 gal of gas in tank to clean fuel rail, injectors and pump of gum and deposits
1 can used as a soak and mist/spray in a hot engine removes carbon/dirt/crankcase crud buildup from the throttle body, plenum runners, intake valves, outer surfaces of injectors, head intake and ring grooves.
injest thru TB 1 can fast enough at 2k rpm until the engine stumbles, let soak for at least 2 hours. follow by a high rpm run on the freeway with hand controlled shifts at engine rated redline for 20 miles.

at 100k miles, time to use Auto-RX.
best ring pack cleaner on the market and the safest.
 
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Steelhead,
With the water injection, what is the rate at which you introduce the hot water into the hot engine in ounces per minute approximately?
 
i wouldn't put seafoam or b12 in my crankcase or gas tank, esp after b12 took gas tank and crankcase off there directions.

you use a spray bottle to mist it throgh most direct vacuum line, or you can spray though intake if you have no sensors beyond where you would spray. if you expect results, hot water and hot motor only.
 
1/8" plastic tube feeding from water bottle to TB plate hole or air gap.
vacuum draws liquid in and mists/vaporizes the water.
tube limits intake rate plus if engine over ingests, vacuum drops and less is drawn in.
 
A little story of water cleaning gone bad.

In the summer months I would get a ping or a knock with the A/C on. I figured it was a carbon build up problem. The vehicle is a 1999 Dodge Grand Caravan with 340,000 miles on it. Yes, you read that right, 340K Miles. Original engine and tranny, niether of which has been opened up. As the original owner, I know this to be true.

Oh, ARX on both engine and tranny since 200K. A full clean/rinse cycle every 75K and maintenence doses in between.

Anyway, in an effort to get rid of the carbon in the cumbustion chamber I have tried all of the usual cleaners like Regane, B-12, Seafoam and many more using all of the different ways to remove carbon written about here at BOTIG like soaks and flooding the intake and putting it in the gas. Nothing seemed to cure the pinging.

This spring I decided to do the water method. I was considering getting a water injection unit, but then, right before I was going to change my oil, I decided to fill the 2 gallon pump up lawn and garden sprayer with 1 gallon of hot water and spray it right into the intake via the throttle body when the van was hot and see if it would get rid of my carbon problem.

I removed the rubber boot that connects the throttle body to the air filter, started it up and revved it up a bit as I sprayed water into the throttle body. It ran rough to say the least, but I kept at it until the whole gallon of water was gone.

I then changed the oil and took it for a drive. The ping was now almost gone. I was pleased. Finally, after years of trying everything, the water seemed to do the trick. I decided that from now on I would use the water technique before each oil change to keep the carbon from building up again.

A few thousand miles went by and the weather was getting hot and the A/C was on all the time. The ping was still almost gone, but I wanted it completely gone, and I wanted to run 87 octane as prices were nearing 4 bucks a gallon by this time (July). I was itching to try the water trick again and change the oil.

But this time I was going to go even further, I would use two gallons of water and really clean the carbon out!

Sounds good so far right?

Went out and bought new oil and a filter and set about on my de-carboning mission. I sprayed and spayed and I held the throttle open to keep it from stalling. After I'd sprayed in about a gallon and a half I noticed a whole lot of steam coming out of not only the tailpipe, but the breather hose on the valve cover. Hmmm....Somehow I correctly surmised that this was NOT GOOD and quickly shut off the engine.

When I pulled the dipstick, what was once oil now looked like chocolate milk!!

Oh No!!

I drained the oil and pulled the filter. I then refilled it with some used oil and a used filter that I had and started it up.

It still runs! Whew.

I pondered the error of my ways and decided there wasn't much I could do about it now except to drive it a bit and hope I can burn off any water that might still be in the engine.

I drove it with the used oil for a couple of days and then changed it out for fresh oil and filter. That was ablout 10,500 miles ago. (Yea, I drive a lot.)

As for the ping, it is still there, but very very slight with 87 octane gas. No ping with 89 and 91 octane. Not bad. Lucky for me I didn't destroy the engine.

Moral of the story, BE CAREFUL!

Go easy on the water as I think it does have it's uses in removing carbon build up, but you have to make sure you don't drown the engine in it.

Biron
 
My biggest mistake when I did the water cleaning is letting the engine idle, It has a lot of vacuum at idle and sucked water through that hose faster than I ever imagined possible.

The car was sitting at an angle, and I think some of the water was pooling up in the intake, so when I revved it, the engine sucked some of that pool in. I got one single knock that was probably a nearly full cylinder, but that was several thousand miles ago and nothing bad has cropped up with my engine. I get way less detonation now, and I have more power.
 
That's a good story biron........I've never used that much water, maybe a little under 2qts IIRC, and I fed it slowly. Sometimes a little is good, and a lot isn't better. We all at times tend to go a little overboard, and your story is a reality check! Glad you didn't wreck the engine, and thanks for sharing the story.

Frank D
 
1. B-12 is not a low cost version of Seafoam. Seafoam is an overpriced, weaker version of B-12.

2. B-12 didn't take gas tank of their instructions, just crankcase. Wouldn't be much place to use it, otherwise....

3. Looks like stoddard solvent is a big component of LiquiMoly's (LubroMoly) engine flush. Just fyi..
 
I chose to use this flush because of its MSDS, so lest anyone get the wrong idea and think I was promoting that old snake oil stoddard solvent, here's the MSDS from the LiquiMoly website quoted at the top:

Naptha, Hydrodesulphurized Heavy 60-80%
Long-Chained Alkylated Calcium Aryl Sulfonate 1-5%
Polyolefin Polyamine Succinimide 1-5%
Zinc dialkyl dithiophosphate 1-5%
Ethoxylated idotridecanol 1-
So we've got some (true) synthetic dispersant/detergents and ZDDP in there as well not to mention some other stuff it'll probably take a chemist to explain. Did you ever look at the back of a bottle of medicine and see 99.98% inert ingredients? I think that's the Naptha here. It needs a carrier, otherwise you'd be paying $10 for a tiny bottle of some very potent ingredients.
 
Yes, you're correct, but I am point out that stoddard solvent is NOT an inert carrier, and may be responsible for the lion's share of the cleaning in formulations it's used in. Sorta like these energy drinks that advertise taurine, ginseng, B12, and 989 mg of caffeine. Everyone knows the caffeine is pulling the weight.

But I do give it "props" for having the additive package. But that's essentially what that is. A quick google search of those items does NOT make me a chemist, but it does give you an idea of what they are.

Long-Chained Alkylated Calcium Aryl Sulfonate-detergent
Polyolefin Polyamine Succinimide-friction reducer/anti-wear
Zinc dialkyl dithiophosphate-anti-wear/anti-oxident
Ethoxylated isotridecanol-surfactant

Now, I am not saying these ingredients don't play a vital role. They certainly distinguish this flush from most. Obviously more thought went into this product than your standard bottle of kerosene. But it seems to my admittedly untrained eyes like the stoddard solvent (or whatever you want to classify the hydrocarbon solvent as) is still pulling the weight.

Now, that's not a BAD thing at face value, necessarily. Especially in this case, where it looks like they brought together these other ingredients to cushion the blow of the thin solvent being introduced into the crankcase. My main questions would be IS it effective and DO these ingredients effectively reduce the risk of running a thin solvent in your crankcase?

And no, I am not trying to lead anyone to any conclusions, before the usual suspects jump in and turn this into an argument. I merely LIKE taking a closer look at these things just to see if anyone of them is "special" in any way or if we're all paying different prices for the same ingredients sold by different companies.

In this case, we have certainly seen Lubro-Moly attempts to juice this flush up a bit. I'd like to hear comment by some of our resident "smart people" to understand if there's anything special about these ingredients that I am missing and/or their merit in this situation.
 
Yeah, that's all I was trying to say is that it has some distinguishing features. I'd be interested as well about a more in-depth analysis by one of the resident smarties.
 
Little update here:
I've been running just regular 87 octance 10% ethanol gas and PP 5W-30, adding a pint of MMO to the last tank of gas preceeding each oil change. (I've changed my oil 2x since the above treatment.) I was bored at lunch yesterday, so I decided to swing into the mechanic shop I deal with and have them run a compression test. I was curious to see how things were holding up in the engine since it passed 100,000mi. Compression tests read exactly 180psi on all cylinders. The mechanic was very impressed, as was I.
 
Originally Posted By: BrianWC
1. B-12 is not a low cost version of Seafoam. Seafoam is an overpriced, weaker version of B-12.

2. B-12 didn't take gas tank of their instructions, just crankcase. Wouldn't be much place to use it, otherwise....

3. Looks like stoddard solvent is a big component of LiquiMoly's (LubroMoly) engine flush. Just fyi..


Not saying what is better, but they aint the same. Seafoam is petroleum based B-12 is toulene and acetone. B-12 is seens stronger, I use to soak parts and spark plugs......but it makes me nervous on seals, gaskets and hoses. However, I used B12 or acetone for years in carbed bikes, as that was the rage (1 oz/gallon) The Seafoam will stabilize gas and prevent carbon build up in fuel systems. I don't think it does much cleaning through the gas tank?, but has been effective for me through the intake/vacumm lines)
 
So in the final analysis what did what? Was it a lifter tick or a noisy injector. Compression is even accross all cyclinders, great but what were they before?

Don't get me wrong I am happy that your unit is running better.
 
There had been a bit of a tick before and I'd noticed a decrease in mileage and acceleration wasn't as it should've been. These have not been problems since, acceleration is smoother and mileage is back up at 27.5/city where it ought to be. I know the piston heads and intake were dirty. I can only assume that there may have been a loss of compression on some or all cylinders and injectors were also possibly fouled.

So, I guess the combination of the things I did in the original post solved the above-mentioned problems. Or, to put it another way, whatever the problems were that caused the above symptoms have been fixed as evidenced by the disappearance of said symptoms.
 
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