The Problem w/Fuel Dilution is not Viscosity Drop

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: Steve S
Mrs Haas, is the true beauty in those pics. I would bet .thinks so as well!!!


^^Big 2nd!!!! A hottie indeed!

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: Steve S
Mrs Haas, is the true beauty in those pics. I would bet .thinks so as well!!!


^^Big 2nd!!!! A hottie indeed!

Mrs Haas makes those cars look plain.

 

[Seth]

doc, not to hijack your thread or any thing but check out
http://029c29b.netsolstores.com/zymolsolaris.aspx
cost is 30 grand or so I gather for the top of the line wax.

 

[Steve S]

Basically in simple terms, excessive fuel dilution screws up the oil.

 

[AEHaas]

Back on topic...
People often ask if they should go for high miles with synthetic or shorter stints with mineral based oils. It depends on your time of operation. I never go enough miles to deserve an oil change. But every year I change oil because I have a lot of fuel dilution and humidity in my environment. These are known factors that increase wear and tear. Both are know factors I feel are significant.

I never worry about the viscosity though, it is definitely down on the list.

 

[moribundman]

Is that a Raleigh or a Schwinn on the wall?

 

[buster]

I would guess there is a lot of complex chemistry involved here. Not just a dilution issue?

 

[ProfPS]

I can see that thinner oils will burn off/reduce fuel dilution faster than thicker oils when driving for extended periods, but will thicker oils provide better oil-film thickness/retention with fuel dilution than thinner oils for those critical areas in the engine?

 

[Pablo]

The bottom line here is that fuel is hard on oil. If the formulating chemists don't design a tiered system for handling fuel, the motor oil will be a weak one.

 

[02zx9r]

i like the enzo

 

[ProfPS]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
The bottom line here is that fuel is hard on oil. If the formulating chemists don't design a tiered system for handling fuel, the motor oil will be a weak one.


We are all in agreement that fuel dilution is not good. However, for those of us who are in the north with short commutes entering the winter months would like to know more on oil grade selection to minimize damage to crank case oil/oil film thickness & retention. Driving for 2 hour stretches once a week to burn off fuel is not an option.

There are several points for further discussion -
Thinner oil: reduces cold startup wear, more prone to film thickness/retention damage, burns off fuel quicker

Thicker oil: more cold startup wear, potentially more fuel dilution due to viscosity thickness resistance until warmed; potentially longer to burn off fuel dilution

Which is preferred for short distance commuters in addition to shorter OCI's??

There are several unknowns, but it would be interesting to know. Also, is fuel dilution and oil film thickness effected the same with synthetics (Grp 3 and/or Grp 4) as dinos?

 

[mechtech2]

The least fuel in your engine oil, the better.

[This does not apply to WWII P47 aircraft that spec adding gas to the 70 weight engine oil to get her started in very cold temps.]

 

[INDYMAC]

As this thread will attest to, many of us are concerned about fuel dilution (acute, chronic and terminal) in our engine oils. From my experience, Terry Dyson appears to be at the leading edge of this issue. If you choose not to use his services and recommendations, then I recommend that you keep your vehicle at optimum tune levels and change your engine oil at factory recommended severe service intervals. I also recommend that you stay away from the concentrated fuel system and fuel injector cleaners until the tank just before your next oil and filter change.

 

[Jim Allen]

1) I think a lighter oil would be the answer, with a relatively short OCI (longer if verified by UOA), for the reasons specified by ProfPS above.

2) Use a block heater. It will bring your engine at least halfway to a warmed-up state before startup, into closed loop much faster and perhaps warm enough to cook the oil a little bit.

3) Install an oil heater. Somebody on the forum uses a water to oil heat exchanger. It would work as an oil heater in winter and an oil cooler in summer. The coolant heats up much faster than the oil so the device will bring the oil temp up much faster. Could be a fairly involved process on some vehicles to install said device. My Ford 6.9L diesel has one stock and it's amazing how fast the oil warms up.

*4) Partially (or fully)block the radiator with cardboard to enable it to warm up faster

* Obviously to be done only by a non-lazy driver with a clue, who will remove and replace the cardboard at the appropriate times (i.e. remove for a longer trip).

Also, I love this thread! A nice, meaty one for a change! Thanks Doc!

 

[scoobie]

Thank you doc, for your contribution, and love the pics. My stable consists of 3 x dodge colt, 1995. my wrecker just got in a 1989 colt with a 1.6 turbo. he said he'll make me a good deal and swap out one of my colt engines for me. this should be fun.

 

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: ProfPS
Originally Posted By: Pablo
The bottom line here is that fuel is hard on oil. If the formulating chemists don't design a tiered system for handling fuel, the motor oil will be a weak one.


We are all in agreement that fuel dilution is not good. However, for those of us who are in the north with short commutes entering the winter months would like to know more on oil grade selection to minimize damage to crank case oil/oil film thickness & retention. Driving for 2 hour stretches once a week to burn off fuel is not an option.

There are several points for further discussion -
Thinner oil: reduces cold startup wear, more prone to film thickness/retention damage, burns off fuel quicker

Thicker oil: more cold startup wear, potentially more fuel dilution due to viscosity thickness resistance until warmed; potentially longer to burn off fuel dilution

Which is preferred for short distance commuters in addition to shorter OCI's??

There are several unknowns, but it would be interesting to know. Also, is fuel dilution and oil film thickness effected the same with synthetics (Grp 3 and/or Grp 4) as dinos?



Has anyone actually proven that thicker oil increases startup wear? I see it here over and over but never any proof. I'm talking within reason, not using a straight 60 weight in -20F conditions. I see oil coming out of my rocker arms on the Buick with 20-50 the second the engine fires.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: ProfPS
Originally Posted By: Pablo
The bottom line here is that fuel is hard on oil. If the formulating chemists don't design a tiered system for handling fuel, the motor oil will be a weak one.


We are all in agreement that fuel dilution is not good. However, for those of us who are in the north with short commutes entering the winter months would like to know more on oil grade selection to minimize damage to crank case oil/oil film thickness & retention. Driving for 2 hour stretches once a week to burn off fuel is not an option.

There are several points for further discussion -
Thinner oil: reduces cold startup wear, more prone to film thickness/retention damage, burns off fuel quicker

Thicker oil: more cold startup wear, potentially more fuel dilution due to viscosity thickness resistance until warmed; potentially longer to burn off fuel dilution

Which is preferred for short distance commuters in addition to shorter OCI's??

There are several unknowns, but it would be interesting to know. Also, is fuel dilution and oil film thickness effected the same with synthetics (Grp 3 and/or Grp 4) as dinos?



Has anyone actually proven that thicker oil increases startup wear? I see it here over and over but never any proof. I'm talking within reason, not using a straight 60 weight in -20F conditions. I see oil coming out of my rocker arms on the Buick with 20-50 the second the engine fires.


^^I`m with GN on this one. I had my gf start up my Z after it sat unstarted for 2 days in 32 degree weather (one of our rare south Tx freezes),and as soon as the starter began spinning the engine,the camshafts were completely saturated with oil and she started up whisper quiet........no tick,slap,or anything at all. Oil in the engine is Royal Purple 20W50. Engine is as tight as a drum with only 60k miles.

 

[bulwnkl]

Originally Posted By: BuickGN
I see oil coming out of my rocker arms on the Buick with 20-50 the second the engine fires.


I've seen you post this before, GN, and I'm curious: How long after you see this instant oil flow do you continue to watch? I ask because:

A) I'm not familiar with SBCs, and
B) I've done the same thing with a Subaru flat-6 I used to have with interesting results. First thing in the morning, at ~35F, using 15W40, I would see (tried this a number of times) oil 'flow' and splash from the rockers nearly instantly. However, when I continued to watch, the oil 'flow' increased exponentially after over 1 minute of idling. Have you observed similar behavior from your SBC?

 

[LargeCarManX2]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
The bottom line here is that fuel is hard on oil. If the formulating chemists don't design a tiered system for handling fuel, the motor oil will be a weak one.


Can you elaborate on the tiered system for handling fuel?

Is it like a fast disolve pain pill for the first 4 hours with the second wave of less disolving pain medicine taking over after the first 4 hours? A multi-time pain pill so to speak?

Which chemicals/additives in this tiered system do this?

 

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: bulwnkl
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
I see oil coming out of my rocker arms on the Buick with 20-50 the second the engine fires.


I've seen you post this before, GN, and I'm curious: How long after you see this instant oil flow do you continue to watch? I ask because:

A) I'm not familiar with SBCs, and
B) I've done the same thing with a Subaru flat-6 I used to have with interesting results. First thing in the morning, at ~35F, using 15W40, I would see (tried this a number of times) oil 'flow' and splash from the rockers nearly instantly. However, when I continued to watch, the oil 'flow' increased exponentially after over 1 minute of idling. Have you observed similar behavior from your SBC?


It's the Buick V6, known to have a marginal oiling system.

I know exactly what you're saying but it's not residual oil left in the pushrods and being flung out by the rockers. Flow is even from the get go. FWIW, this was done with the valvecover off.

Another thing I observed when I put a temporary oil pressure guage at the turbo feed (top of the engine) with a see through oil line is instant oil movement. If the thinner oil gets there faster, it would have to be measured in miliseconds.