The New Fram Ultra
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Thanks for the info, Patman. That's not bad. Are they going to replace the Extended Guard ones across the board?
It's amazing some of you get really worked up over an oil filter. If you don't like it, don't use them. A bottom of the line Fram will do it's job. I've had 2 Purolator failed and posted them on here to show that ANY filter can fail. It doesn't surprise me that you will see more failure with Fram. Look at how many they are sold compared to other filter that's on the market. If you can come up with a number like Fram has a 1% failure as oppose to .7% with some other filter, then there's some facts to discuss. Since I've had 2 failure with Purolator out of about 20 that i've use, does that make it a worse filter than Fram since I've use about 20 Fram filters and never had a failure?
I would use it, and i am a motorcraft fan, if the price is right i would go after the fram ultra, the construction looks superb, and the fact that it has a synthetic media.
that being said, will i get one for my sable, nope. If it was a SHO i would run it, in the FL1A size.
I have the standard vulcan V6, a FL400S or equivlent purolator will do just fine for what i intend to do.
that being said, will i get one for my sable, nope. If it was a SHO i would run it, in the FL1A size.
I have the standard vulcan V6, a FL400S or equivlent purolator will do just fine for what i intend to do.
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
I have personally had a couple Fram's fail years ago. One was on a used 75 Chevy Malibu I had( 1st car actually )and one on my 88 Ram Sport I bought new. Both times the media literally came apart( basically killed the 350 in the 75 Malibu ). Have not used them since and won't.
This way of thinking makes me laugh hard!! Ive had numerous chrysler and gm products fail over the years, yet people buy them daily, love them, and sware by them. Again, your thought process makes me laugh. If we all thought that way, we wouldnt have electricty, etc
I have personally had a couple Fram's fail years ago. One was on a used 75 Chevy Malibu I had( 1st car actually )and one on my 88 Ram Sport I bought new. Both times the media literally came apart( basically killed the 350 in the 75 Malibu ). Have not used them since and won't.
This way of thinking makes me laugh hard!! Ive had numerous chrysler and gm products fail over the years, yet people buy them daily, love them, and sware by them. Again, your thought process makes me laugh. If we all thought that way, we wouldnt have electricty, etc
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Originally Posted By: clarklawnscape
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
I have personally had a couple Fram's fail years ago. One was on a used 75 Chevy Malibu I had( 1st car actually )and one on my 88 Ram Sport I bought new. Both times the media literally came apart( basically killed the 350 in the 75 Malibu ). Have not used them since and won't.
This way of thinking makes me laugh hard!! Ive had numerous chrysler and gm products fail over the years, yet people buy them daily, love them, and sware by them. Again, your thought process makes me laugh. If we all thought that way, we wouldnt have electricty, etc
How is making the decision not to use a product based on past experience and the fact that this product has not been updated since you had that experience with that product in any way the same as what you describe?
Yes, if FRAM had updated the OCOD, changed the design, I would think that he could perhaps give it another chance. But to give what is essentially the same filter that you had issues with another chance is simply stupid.
Chrysler and GM aren't making the same products that people may have had issues with years ago. They update and revise their products. And people certainly develop the same prejudices with those brands as well. I'm sure the LIM issue with the GM V6 engines left a nasty taste in the mouths of many and those people may have sworn off GM because of that.
However, GM isn't making those engines anymore. And GM fixed the issue by revising the design. The OCOD that NHHEMI had issues with will be no different from the OCOD that he can grab off the shelf at Walmart currently.
And his experience with the media failing is in-line with the Cummins TSB on not using FRAM filters with their engines.
So while I don't necessarily think the same fear many have of the OCOD based on past experiences should apply to the differently constructed filters like the Ultra, I can certainly see and understand why people would be apprehensive about using the brand in general if they lost an engine to one of their products (or in this case, two engines).
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
I have personally had a couple Fram's fail years ago. One was on a used 75 Chevy Malibu I had( 1st car actually )and one on my 88 Ram Sport I bought new. Both times the media literally came apart( basically killed the 350 in the 75 Malibu ). Have not used them since and won't.
This way of thinking makes me laugh hard!! Ive had numerous chrysler and gm products fail over the years, yet people buy them daily, love them, and sware by them. Again, your thought process makes me laugh. If we all thought that way, we wouldnt have electricty, etc
How is making the decision not to use a product based on past experience and the fact that this product has not been updated since you had that experience with that product in any way the same as what you describe?
Yes, if FRAM had updated the OCOD, changed the design, I would think that he could perhaps give it another chance. But to give what is essentially the same filter that you had issues with another chance is simply stupid.
Chrysler and GM aren't making the same products that people may have had issues with years ago. They update and revise their products. And people certainly develop the same prejudices with those brands as well. I'm sure the LIM issue with the GM V6 engines left a nasty taste in the mouths of many and those people may have sworn off GM because of that.
However, GM isn't making those engines anymore. And GM fixed the issue by revising the design. The OCOD that NHHEMI had issues with will be no different from the OCOD that he can grab off the shelf at Walmart currently.
And his experience with the media failing is in-line with the Cummins TSB on not using FRAM filters with their engines.
So while I don't necessarily think the same fear many have of the OCOD based on past experiences should apply to the differently constructed filters like the Ultra, I can certainly see and understand why people would be apprehensive about using the brand in general if they lost an engine to one of their products (or in this case, two engines).
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
People get too fixated on a name. A company builds some low end products or has a bad product for a period of time in the past, does that mean they must be cursed, shunned and untouchable for eternity? You gotta keep taking a fresh look at things. A detailed look. People change, companies change, products change. If a particular product is no good by some objective standard, don't buy it. Don't NOT buy something merely for the name printed on it.
I certainly do avoid products for the name printed on them. If a product has cailed on me I certainly would not purchase anything from that company again. (NO, I am not saying an OCOD has ever failed on me. i am speaking about in general) I had Valvoline oil break down on me to the point where my engine was knocking. I pulled the dipstick and the oil was as thin as water. I changed the oil with another brand and I never had another oil related problem from that engine. why would I now try Valvoline again when I am perfectly happy with the oils I am using?
People get too fixated on a name. A company builds some low end products or has a bad product for a period of time in the past, does that mean they must be cursed, shunned and untouchable for eternity? You gotta keep taking a fresh look at things. A detailed look. People change, companies change, products change. If a particular product is no good by some objective standard, don't buy it. Don't NOT buy something merely for the name printed on it.
I certainly do avoid products for the name printed on them. If a product has cailed on me I certainly would not purchase anything from that company again. (NO, I am not saying an OCOD has ever failed on me. i am speaking about in general) I had Valvoline oil break down on me to the point where my engine was knocking. I pulled the dipstick and the oil was as thin as water. I changed the oil with another brand and I never had another oil related problem from that engine. why would I now try Valvoline again when I am perfectly happy with the oils I am using?
Its all picking your battles. If other oils cost the same and Valvoline let me down, I'd use others too.
As for FRAM, I'm sure alot of people are happy with what they sell, but I'm not. Spending a bit more or sometimes the same on other filters I feel more confident with, works for me.
I'd use a FRAM, sure, but I'd rather use a Wix filter, so I do. If FRAM offered a filter like the Ultra for a real good price, I'd buy it, why not.
As for FRAM, I'm sure alot of people are happy with what they sell, but I'm not. Spending a bit more or sometimes the same on other filters I feel more confident with, works for me.
I'd use a FRAM, sure, but I'd rather use a Wix filter, so I do. If FRAM offered a filter like the Ultra for a real good price, I'd buy it, why not.
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Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
I'm sure the LIM issue with the GM V6 engines left a nasty taste in the mouths of many and those people may have sworn off GM because of that.
Your argument fits perfectly in line with what we see in the relentless Dex-Cool threads. As for the Ultra, if it does replace the Fram Synthetic filter up here at the same price point, then Fram has finally priced a quality product at an appropriate level.
Why would I buy a PH8A for around $7 when I can get a Wix 51515 for under $5? On the same token, why spend $15 on an M1 filter or $18 on a K&N when a Fram Ultra can be had for $12 or so? That's a quality filter at a reasonable price by Canadian standards.
I admit my bias against Fram's construction and pricing. But, I may have to rethink my stance, particularly when I speak to one of my suppliers, who is a Fram supplier. I might be able to get the Ultras or Synthetics at a price that rivals Wix. Time will tell, I suppose.
I'm sure the LIM issue with the GM V6 engines left a nasty taste in the mouths of many and those people may have sworn off GM because of that.
Your argument fits perfectly in line with what we see in the relentless Dex-Cool threads. As for the Ultra, if it does replace the Fram Synthetic filter up here at the same price point, then Fram has finally priced a quality product at an appropriate level.
Why would I buy a PH8A for around $7 when I can get a Wix 51515 for under $5? On the same token, why spend $15 on an M1 filter or $18 on a K&N when a Fram Ultra can be had for $12 or so? That's a quality filter at a reasonable price by Canadian standards.
I admit my bias against Fram's construction and pricing. But, I may have to rethink my stance, particularly when I speak to one of my suppliers, who is a Fram supplier. I might be able to get the Ultras or Synthetics at a price that rivals Wix. Time will tell, I suppose.
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: clarklawnscape
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
I have personally had a couple Fram's fail years ago. One was on a used 75 Chevy Malibu I had( 1st car actually )and one on my 88 Ram Sport I bought new. Both times the media literally came apart( basically killed the 350 in the 75 Malibu ). Have not used them since and won't.
This way of thinking makes me laugh hard!! Ive had numerous chrysler and gm products fail over the years, yet people buy them daily, love them, and sware by them. Again, your thought process makes me laugh. If we all thought that way, we wouldnt have electricty, etc
How is making the decision not to use a product based on past experience and the fact that this product has not been updated since you had that experience with that product in any way the same as what you describe?
Yes, if FRAM had updated the OCOD, changed the design, I would think that he could perhaps give it another chance. But to give what is essentially the same filter that you had issues with another chance is simply stupid.
Chrysler and GM aren't making the same products that people may have had issues with years ago. They update and revise their products. And people certainly develop the same prejudices with those brands as well. I'm sure the LIM issue with the GM V6 engines left a nasty taste in the mouths of many and those people may have sworn off GM because of that.
However, GM isn't making those engines anymore. And GM fixed the issue by revising the design. The OCOD that NHHEMI had issues with will be no different from the OCOD that he can grab off the shelf at Walmart currently.
And his experience with the media failing is in-line with the Cummins TSB on not using FRAM filters with their engines.
So while I don't necessarily think the same fear many have of the OCOD based on past experiences should apply to the differently constructed filters like the Ultra, I can certainly see and understand why people would be apprehensive about using the brand in general if they lost an engine to one of their products (or in this case, two engines).
he is making blanket statements, he is saying he wont buy a fram "silver can etc" based on a failure 20+ yrs ago that was an "orange can". Justify it how you will, but its an old way of thinking based on one or two instances that were years ago. As you attempted to explain, things change, as do oil filters etc. Do I love orange cans? no. am i scared of them? no.
Originally Posted By: clarklawnscape
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
I have personally had a couple Fram's fail years ago. One was on a used 75 Chevy Malibu I had( 1st car actually )and one on my 88 Ram Sport I bought new. Both times the media literally came apart( basically killed the 350 in the 75 Malibu ). Have not used them since and won't.
This way of thinking makes me laugh hard!! Ive had numerous chrysler and gm products fail over the years, yet people buy them daily, love them, and sware by them. Again, your thought process makes me laugh. If we all thought that way, we wouldnt have electricty, etc
How is making the decision not to use a product based on past experience and the fact that this product has not been updated since you had that experience with that product in any way the same as what you describe?
Yes, if FRAM had updated the OCOD, changed the design, I would think that he could perhaps give it another chance. But to give what is essentially the same filter that you had issues with another chance is simply stupid.
Chrysler and GM aren't making the same products that people may have had issues with years ago. They update and revise their products. And people certainly develop the same prejudices with those brands as well. I'm sure the LIM issue with the GM V6 engines left a nasty taste in the mouths of many and those people may have sworn off GM because of that.
However, GM isn't making those engines anymore. And GM fixed the issue by revising the design. The OCOD that NHHEMI had issues with will be no different from the OCOD that he can grab off the shelf at Walmart currently.
And his experience with the media failing is in-line with the Cummins TSB on not using FRAM filters with their engines.
So while I don't necessarily think the same fear many have of the OCOD based on past experiences should apply to the differently constructed filters like the Ultra, I can certainly see and understand why people would be apprehensive about using the brand in general if they lost an engine to one of their products (or in this case, two engines).
he is making blanket statements, he is saying he wont buy a fram "silver can etc" based on a failure 20+ yrs ago that was an "orange can". Justify it how you will, but its an old way of thinking based on one or two instances that were years ago. As you attempted to explain, things change, as do oil filters etc. Do I love orange cans? no. am i scared of them? no.
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Originally Posted By: clarklawnscape
he is making blanket statements, he is saying he wont buy a fram "silver can etc" based on a failure 20+ yrs ago that was an "orange can". Justify it how you will, but its an old way of thinking based on one or two instances that were years ago. As you attempted to explain, things change, as do oil filters etc. Do I love orange cans? no. am i scared of them? no.
While I understand your point, I do hope you can see how somebody who has had issue with a certain design of something that resulted in multiple engine failures would be apprehensive about using that brand's products in general going forward.
The OCOD and the TG (silver can) are of the same design internally. So I would assume that if one were the fail in a particular application, the other would be no less likely to fail under those conditions.
However, the Ultra and its predecessor are of the metal end-cap design philosophy and I don't think should be lumped in with FRAM's other filters that use the cheaper assembly (engineered media end-cap) process.
But I'm not going to fault somebody for shying away from FRAM entirely, the Ultra/XG filters included if they lost several thousand dollars in engines because of failed FRAM products in the past. Particularly with the plethora of filters available that don't share the OCOD/TG design philosophy of engineered media end-caps.
Certainly, we shouldn't lump all of a brand's products into the same bowl. But at the same time, if one has had issues with a certain brand's products in the past, there are so many alternatives to choose from, shying away from the brand you had issues with in favour of one that you have not surely seems logical, no?
he is making blanket statements, he is saying he wont buy a fram "silver can etc" based on a failure 20+ yrs ago that was an "orange can". Justify it how you will, but its an old way of thinking based on one or two instances that were years ago. As you attempted to explain, things change, as do oil filters etc. Do I love orange cans? no. am i scared of them? no.
While I understand your point, I do hope you can see how somebody who has had issue with a certain design of something that resulted in multiple engine failures would be apprehensive about using that brand's products in general going forward.
The OCOD and the TG (silver can) are of the same design internally. So I would assume that if one were the fail in a particular application, the other would be no less likely to fail under those conditions.
However, the Ultra and its predecessor are of the metal end-cap design philosophy and I don't think should be lumped in with FRAM's other filters that use the cheaper assembly (engineered media end-cap) process.
But I'm not going to fault somebody for shying away from FRAM entirely, the Ultra/XG filters included if they lost several thousand dollars in engines because of failed FRAM products in the past. Particularly with the plethora of filters available that don't share the OCOD/TG design philosophy of engineered media end-caps.
Certainly, we shouldn't lump all of a brand's products into the same bowl. But at the same time, if one has had issues with a certain brand's products in the past, there are so many alternatives to choose from, shying away from the brand you had issues with in favour of one that you have not surely seems logical, no?
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: clarklawnscape
he is making blanket statements, he is saying he wont buy a fram "silver can etc" based on a failure 20+ yrs ago that was an "orange can". Justify it how you will, but its an old way of thinking based on one or two instances that were years ago. As you attempted to explain, things change, as do oil filters etc. Do I love orange cans? no. am i scared of them? no.
While I understand your point, I do hope you can see how somebody who has had issue with a certain design of something that resulted in multiple engine failures would be apprehensive about using that brand's products in general going forward.
The OCOD and the TG (silver can) are of the same design internally. So I would assume that if one were the fail in a particular application, the other would be no less likely to fail under those conditions.
However, the Ultra and its predecessor are of the metal end-cap design philosophy and I don't think should be lumped in with FRAM's other filters that use the cheaper assembly (engineered media end-cap) process.
But I'm not going to fault somebody for shying away from FRAM entirely, the Ultra/XG filters included if they lost several thousand dollars in engines because of failed FRAM products in the past. Particularly with the plethora of filters available that don't share the OCOD/TG design philosophy of engineered media end-caps.
Certainly, we shouldn't lump all of a brand's products into the same bowl. But at the same time, if one has had issues with a certain brand's products in the past, there are so many alternatives to choose from, shying away from the brand you had issues with in favour of one that you have not surely seems logical, no?
im a lawn freak, and very particular of my machienes, i hate mtd based on the past and have watched many of my competitors buy mtd junk and continue to fail. im old school, i will not use syn oil in my equipment, and i can back it up as to why. i do run syn in my vehicles and run higher dollar filters on my vehicles. but i change my oil monthly on my lawn equipment and have ran "ocod" on them for yrs without issue. but i dont expect a $4 filter to be my filter for 200 hrs as im seeing described here. As in all of life, its true, you get what you pay for
Originally Posted By: clarklawnscape
he is making blanket statements, he is saying he wont buy a fram "silver can etc" based on a failure 20+ yrs ago that was an "orange can". Justify it how you will, but its an old way of thinking based on one or two instances that were years ago. As you attempted to explain, things change, as do oil filters etc. Do I love orange cans? no. am i scared of them? no.
While I understand your point, I do hope you can see how somebody who has had issue with a certain design of something that resulted in multiple engine failures would be apprehensive about using that brand's products in general going forward.
The OCOD and the TG (silver can) are of the same design internally. So I would assume that if one were the fail in a particular application, the other would be no less likely to fail under those conditions.
However, the Ultra and its predecessor are of the metal end-cap design philosophy and I don't think should be lumped in with FRAM's other filters that use the cheaper assembly (engineered media end-cap) process.
But I'm not going to fault somebody for shying away from FRAM entirely, the Ultra/XG filters included if they lost several thousand dollars in engines because of failed FRAM products in the past. Particularly with the plethora of filters available that don't share the OCOD/TG design philosophy of engineered media end-caps.
Certainly, we shouldn't lump all of a brand's products into the same bowl. But at the same time, if one has had issues with a certain brand's products in the past, there are so many alternatives to choose from, shying away from the brand you had issues with in favour of one that you have not surely seems logical, no?
im a lawn freak, and very particular of my machienes, i hate mtd based on the past and have watched many of my competitors buy mtd junk and continue to fail. im old school, i will not use syn oil in my equipment, and i can back it up as to why. i do run syn in my vehicles and run higher dollar filters on my vehicles. but i change my oil monthly on my lawn equipment and have ran "ocod" on them for yrs without issue. but i dont expect a $4 filter to be my filter for 200 hrs as im seeing described here. As in all of life, its true, you get what you pay for
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
clarklawnscape said:
MiniMopar and this site (among others) shed enough light on how filters are made that Fram was forced to improve their product offerings. Their new filter designs suggest that the cardboard cap OCOD THEY sell could be improved upon. The new Fram non-OCODs are good filters but probably overpriced. The question remains: why did Wallyworld dump them? BTW, the OCOD with a dash of PTFE inside was NOT one of their "improvements."
MiniMopar and this site (among others) shed enough light on how filters are made that Fram was forced to improve their product offerings. Their new filter designs suggest that the cardboard cap OCOD THEY sell could be improved upon. The new Fram non-OCODs are good filters but probably overpriced. The question remains: why did Wallyworld dump them? BTW, the OCOD with a dash of PTFE inside was NOT one of their "improvements."
I have a problem with the value propsition of Fram. I consider the cardboard encaps to be a cheap construction method. I think they'd be a good deal if they cost $1.50 each. But they're actually more than other filters that have (in my opinion) better construction.
The Ultra looks like an excellent filter. But then the value propsition comes up again. Why should we have to pay $10 to get a quality constructed filter from Fram? I suppose that if I looking at K&N, Amsoil Ea, Royal Purple, M1, etc, that the $10 might make more sense.
But to me none of the filters in that price range make sense for running dino oil in a Kia. I'm gonna keep using OEM filters in my Kia, they are constructed extremely well and can be had for $6.50 at the dealer, or in the $4-$5 range online. The OCOD is also available in that price range, but doesn't hold a candle to the OEM filter.
I would use an Ultra in a pinch, but realistically, why would I ever be in a pinch if I planned ahead. I usually buy the OEM filters at quantities of at least 5 at a time. My most recent batch of 9 I got for $40 which is less than $5 per filter.
Ultimately, I wish vehicle manufacturers would move back towards the cartridge filter. I think you take a lot of the filter variables out of the picture by doing that. No more worrying about ADBV, bypass valve, etc. Just pure filtration.
The Ultra looks like an excellent filter. But then the value propsition comes up again. Why should we have to pay $10 to get a quality constructed filter from Fram? I suppose that if I looking at K&N, Amsoil Ea, Royal Purple, M1, etc, that the $10 might make more sense.
But to me none of the filters in that price range make sense for running dino oil in a Kia. I'm gonna keep using OEM filters in my Kia, they are constructed extremely well and can be had for $6.50 at the dealer, or in the $4-$5 range online. The OCOD is also available in that price range, but doesn't hold a candle to the OEM filter.
I would use an Ultra in a pinch, but realistically, why would I ever be in a pinch if I planned ahead. I usually buy the OEM filters at quantities of at least 5 at a time. My most recent batch of 9 I got for $40 which is less than $5 per filter.
Ultimately, I wish vehicle manufacturers would move back towards the cartridge filter. I think you take a lot of the filter variables out of the picture by doing that. No more worrying about ADBV, bypass valve, etc. Just pure filtration.
I think Brons2 has the most cogent argument here. There's nothing intrinsically "wrong" or "bad" about FRAM filters, just that they're not a good value for money.
Why should I pay $4.49 for an OCOD when I can get an FL820S for $3.97?
Why should I pay $4.49 for an OCOD when I can get an FL820S for $3.97?
Originally Posted By: RF Overlord
I think Brons2 has the most cogent argument here. There's nothing intrinsically "wrong" or "bad" about FRAM filters, just that they're not a good value for money.
Why should I pay $4.49 for an OCOD when I can get an FL820S for $3.97?
Or a slightly smaller Quaker State (Purolator made Classic clone) from Menard's for $1.99 on sale. Fram's biggest flaw is that they have CHEAPENED their lower-end filters to the point that they're not worth what they cost, or the risk of running them.
I think Brons2 has the most cogent argument here. There's nothing intrinsically "wrong" or "bad" about FRAM filters, just that they're not a good value for money.
Why should I pay $4.49 for an OCOD when I can get an FL820S for $3.97?
Or a slightly smaller Quaker State (Purolator made Classic clone) from Menard's for $1.99 on sale. Fram's biggest flaw is that they have CHEAPENED their lower-end filters to the point that they're not worth what they cost, or the risk of running them.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
One year after buying it brand new and it was out of warranty?
It was the miles that cause it... It was 36k miles or 3 years. I had around 40k when the LIM gasket went out. Pontiac says "no" on the warranty claim.
One year after buying it brand new and it was out of warranty?
It was the miles that cause it... It was 36k miles or 3 years. I had around 40k when the LIM gasket went out. Pontiac says "no" on the warranty claim.
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