The McJob...The New Normal.

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: grampi

Must there be handouts to 50% of our population? That's where we're at and I think this is ridiculously high. 10% I could see, but 50% just sounds like a lot of lazy people who don't WANT to work...


Whenever a talk radio jerk mentions 50% of the population gets a handout, I say, what?

Tax credit to put my kid in daycare so I can work 40 hours? "handout".

Mortgage interest deduction? Handout.

Social security? My state's esteemed governor calls it "welfare".


The sad part is most of the people listening to talk radio believe that stuff. Whatever they are receiving isn't a handout, but the stuff other people are is a handout!

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: eljefino

Whenever a talk radio jerk mentions 50% of the population gets a handout, I say, what?

Tax credit to put my kid in daycare so I can work 40 hours? "handout".

Mortgage interest deduction? Handout.

Social security? My state's esteemed governor calls it "welfare".
35% of people are on welfare or food stamps. Add non-means tested government benefits its 49.2%. At 18 trillion $$ debt, the gravy train us about to run out. Many of are gonna' see things we never thought was possible.

 

[DBMaster]

How many would buy houses it there were not a mortgage interest deduction? I'm going out on a limb here, but I would say that most who are interested in doing so still would. But, it's like a sacred cow - a "handout" for the middle class. Perhaps we are entitled (there's another one of those words.).

Overall, there are MANY handouts that are not labeled as such. For those who purchase expensive homes the government allows you deductions exceeding that of welfare payments.

I am not advocating a position here. I'm just trying to wrap my head around what is a handout and what isn't. It's a handout if, for whatever reason, you are using it to buy food and pay rent, but it's not if you got into debt for something that is considered desirable by our government. If you get into such debt during periods of high interest rates and buy far more house than you should you still get to deduct. As I said, I am not advocating a position and I DO take a deduction for my own mortgage interest. I'm just noticing that many of us are pretty judgmental about the term handout and what we consider to be deserved v. undeserved.

 

[daves87rs]

All these problems and complaining, but I have yet to see a way to get everybody to work.


It amazes me other countries can figure these things out, while we continue to be one the world's Dumbest"

We need to fix our problems, from the government on down. To fix a problem, you always start from the top.

Now mind you, I don't see people here as dumb (well, almost everyone

), but the rest of the world does not see us in a positive light...

 

[javacontour]

I'd be in favor of a flat tax rate. We all pay the same rate on all types of income. No higher tax rates if your income goes up, or lower rates if they are a long term capital gain, etc.

We all pay the same marginal rates for every dollar, no deductions for mortgage interest or buying a hybrid car, or insulating your home, or paying for post-secondary education, and so on.

I'd say not more than 17%, counting FICA taxes. After all, the federal government spends about 17% of GDP, so no reason to take more or less than 17% from anyone, rich or poor.

Those who make more pay more as 17% of more is more. Those who make less pay less because 17% of less is less.

If anyone feels the rich should pay more, they are free to take from her personal riches and pay the tax burden of someone less rich.

But as long as the system has the means to pick winners and losers by having different rates based on legislative fiat, there will always be those who are unfairly burdened by the system.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: daves87rs
All these problems and complaining, but I have yet to see a way to get everybody to work.


It amazes me other countries can figure these things out, while we continue to be one the world's Dumbest"

No countries "have" figured it out except countries like China, Saudi Arabia. The rest provide nothing or everything The solution is work or go without. Truly needy and elderly/infirm people can be taken care of but not 35 to 50 % of the population. Thanks to the "Do dogooders"

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: grampi

Must there be handouts to 50% of our population? That's where we're at and I think this is ridiculously high. 10% I could see, but 50% just sounds like a lot of lazy people who don't WANT to work...


Whenever a talk radio jerk mentions 50% of the population gets a handout, I say, what?

Tax credit to put my kid in daycare so I can work 40 hours? "handout".

Mortgage interest deduction? Handout.

Social security? My state's esteemed governor calls it "welfare".


The sad part is most of the people listening to talk radio believe that stuff. Whatever they are receiving isn't a handout, but the stuff other people are is a handout!

There are just as many people who believe the garbage that the network news outlets, MSNBC, NPR, moveon.org, The Huffingtron Post, etc., puts out as well...whatever the percentage is, it can't be denied that way too many people in this country are on welfare, food stamps, have EBT cards, or are getting some sort of gov assistance...things like tax credits and mortgage interest deductions are not handouts and don't add to the national debt....things like welfare, food stamps, EBTs, etc., make up the bulk of our debt as a country...and most of the people who are on these programs are able to work...they just don't want to...like was said earlier, this has got to stop before the well runs dry...

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: daves87rs
All these problems and complaining, but I have yet to see a way to get everybody to work.


The solution is simple. Change the tax laws so that businesses operating in the U.S, or those operating outside the U.S. that sell products or services in the U.S. would have to pay more in taxes to produce their products overseas than it would cost them to make their products here paying their employees a decent wage. All of the industry we have lost to outsourcing would all come back to the states. There would be 0 unemployment here, and the tax revenues generated by such a change in the tax laws would pay off our national debt in no time...

 

[Mr Nice]

Decent jobs with good benefits are harder to find for young folks without a skill or some type of training.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: grampi
things like welfare, food stamps, EBTs, etc., make up the bulk of our debt as a country

 

[emg]

Originally Posted By: DBMaster
How many would buy houses it there were not a mortgage interest deduction?


I don't know of any other Western nation that lets you deduct mortgage interest from income tax (though plenty have weird housing-related tax rules of their own), and the rest of us manage to buy houses. The main consequence would be a reduction in house prices, as people couldn't afford to borrow as much. It's not a subsidy to people buying houses, but to construction companies and banks.

Similarly, the main beneficiaries of subsidies to low-income workers are the companies that can pay them less, since they no longer need to earn enough to survive.

 

[eljefino]

^ Stop making sense!

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: grampi
things like welfare, food stamps, EBTs, etc., make up the bulk of our debt as a country

That chart is 5 years old...since then the number of people on food stamps has doubled, and I'd be willing to bet the other handouts have increased drastically as well...

 

[SumpChump]

I've never understood how regular people rally behind companies when it comes to stopping minimum wage increases.

Don't they realize that what it means is they THEY will be paying the difference in wage via assistance programs??

It's not that hard to see.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: grampi
things like welfare, food stamps, EBTs, etc., make up the bulk of our debt as a country

That chart is 5 years old...since then the number of people on food stamps has doubled, and I'd be willing to bet the other handouts have increased drastically as well...

Also..a lot of welfare falls to the States. I would guess a lot of "everything else" pays for a lot of that.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: grampi


That chart is 5 years old...since then the number of people on food stamps has doubled, and I'd be willing to bet the other handouts have increased drastically as well...

 

[dlundblad]

They aren't kidding when they call him the food stamp president.

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
They aren't kidding when they call him the food stamp president.


And just how exactly did the President expand the number on people receiving food stamps? I'd love to hear how he did it.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: SumpChump
I've never understood how regular people rally behind companies when it comes to stopping minimum wage increases.

Don't they realize that what it means is they THEY will be paying the difference in wage via assistance programs??

It's not that hard to see.


Why of course ordinary citizens should want things that are directly against their best interests!

Unfortunately many Americans are gullible and easily led, increasingly so because the intelligence level is dropping, and rapidly, as a country. Much of this is due to mass third world alien influx which also have much higher birthrates compared to Americans that have been here for many generations. It's not going to get any better as far as I can tell, we are headed for disaster. The US won't resemble what is was a few decades ago in fifty years. You will think you are in Brasil or some other developing nation and all the massive problems that come with that.

Indeed all citizens should want wages higher so that the employer gets better quality employees, and those businesses will have more customers that can afford more high value purchases.

 

[daves87rs]

Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: daves87rs
All these problems and complaining, but I have yet to see a way to get everybody to work.


It amazes me other countries can figure these things out, while we continue to be one the world's Dumbest"

No countries "have" figured it out except countries like China, Saudi Arabia. The rest provide nothing or everything The solution is work or go without. Truly needy and elderly/infirm people can be taken care of but not 35 to 50 % of the population. Thanks to the "Do dogooders"



While no country is perfect, there are shining examples in Europe...


And while our system is far from perfect, it would be nice if people could actually make enough money in their own country. You get people every day who give up and up on welfare, because it provides better than they can.

This country needs to get past "profits are more important than people". There is a reason the golden age for the US was pre and post WWII....