The Idiots Will Not Slow Down!

[irv]

Can anyone explain or tell me how these people got their license in the first place?

Maybe it's a reflection of my first post in this thread and I already know the answer, but it is still incomprehensible how this is allowed to happen?


There are many more "Canada's Worst Driver" vids available for those interested? Be careful, you will be shocked to see what's on our roads nowadays!

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: George7941
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Please cite the law that authorizes exceeding the speed limit because one is traveling in the left lane. I haven't found it yet.


It's referred to as slower traffic keep right. Technically if you're doing 100mph and the guy behind you is doing 120mph, then you're slower traffic and should move to the right. Same thing applies if you're doing 55 and the guy is doing 65.


JHZR2 asked you to cite the law that authorizes exceeding the speed limit and you did no such thing. What you are saying is - You must obey the keep right law but I don't have to obey speed limit laws. Very selective in your interpretation of laws.


Precisely. There is a definite entitlement that the folks advocating speed in excess of what the law allows hold, which is laughable.

I do feel that fair weather, clear condition limits are too slow on some roads. But I'm not going to play know better, entitled, "superior capability" driver with inadequate reading comprehension, and claim that I deserve to go faster. The law gives no such permit or exemption. Do it at your own peril.

That peril should be speed cameras and LEOs though, not some idiot who thinks they're entitled to set the speed. The hypocrisy on both sides is amazing.


Originally Posted By: Leo99


Do you even drive on the NJTPK with those idiot out of state drivers putzing along at 65-70 in the left lane with no one in front of them?

I've driven on the "autobahn". It's awesome.


Sure do, a decent amount from 7A to 16W. 72-75 is the normal speed I drive on there and 295, and 95 to dc. Never any issues, and in normally in the middle range of speed (passing some, some passing) in the car lanes, and biased towards the fastest in the truck lanes.

But I know better than to drive in the left lane (though I've driven plenty of times to dc where 65 is passing in the left lane and 60-65 is the middle).

The Autobahn works because people do know to stay left. But you would be lying to say that there aren't a ton of 60-100 kPH restricted trailers and trucks, and that on some stretches where the limit is invoked and quickly drops, that slow traffic exists to the left. Autobahn includes some rapid deceleration by law that is unlike in the US... and people follow those laws IME.

I do like that if someone passes on the right, BOTH parties are at fault.

 

[Tony10s]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
It's simple: MOVE OVER. If people didn't act so self-righteous in the left lane, a ton of road rage and traffic issues would be mitigated.


It works both ways. Speed limit is the max speed for the road. If people weren't so self-centered, thinking their gear, skills, time, etc was worth more and that they somehow deserved to break the law and push others who are not inclined, things would also be better.

At the same time, if there is opportunity to leave a passing lane open, it absolutely must. My comments don't imply to allow for vigilante speed monitors.
...

+1 .... Exactly

Speeding is breaking the law, plain and simple, but most people ignore that fact and do what they want. If people weren't excessively speeding the bulk of the time, things would be much better, more peaceful, and safer on the road. The only people who would have a problem with this are those who choose to speed as a daily practice. No one has the right to force someone else to speed excessively, causing them to possibly get a speeding ticket. (And I'm not talking about emergency vehicles.) I don't know how many times I've seen someone who is speeding on a four-lane hwy get pulled over by the police, and being in the left lane didn't help them out at all --- they still got pulled over, as they should.

And for those who are defending people speeding, I'm not going to listen to them at all because I know that speeders kill people on the road. My cousin was killed by a speeder. The woman was going so fast on a wet road that she lost control of her car, came across on my cousin's side of the road, and she hit my cousin head-on. He died at the scene. The passenger with her in her car also died. And this wasn't the first time she had been in trouble on the road for speeding ... She was a habitual speeder. One also struck me in the rear end because he was going too fast to be able to stop when I had to come to a stop at a red light. He wasn't paying attention or something until it was too late, and he was going way too fast to be able to stop in time. So, I know all too well what can result from someone excessively speeding.

 

[irv]

Define speeding and exceeding the speed limit? Is going over 10km/h speeding?
Believe what you will, but it has been proven time and time again that those that choose to drive under the speed limit or in areas where the speed limit is too slow, are involved in accidents more often than those that choose to exceed the speed limit.

https://sites.psu.edu/siowfa15/2015/09/18/is-driving-faster-safer/

The 401, or 400 series of hwys where the OP's accident happened, has a 100 km/h speed limit. Many have advocated to have that increased as it is viewed as too slow.
I generally travel it/them around 115 to 120, never anymore unless I am trying to get around something.

The real problem is, and it isn't speeders or those that exceed the speed limit, but rather, plain and simple, people don't know how to drive anymore, or choose to drive and text, or not decrease their speed in less than desirable conditions.

The only problem with common sense is, it is not very common.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: George7941
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Please cite the law that authorizes exceeding the speed limit because one is traveling in the left lane. I haven't found it yet.


It's referred to as slower traffic keep right. Technically if you're doing 100mph and the guy behind you is doing 120mph, then you're slower traffic and should move to the right. Same thing applies if you're doing 55 and the guy is doing 65.


JHZR2 asked you to cite the law that authorizes exceeding the speed limit and you did no such thing. What you are saying is - You must obey the keep right law but I don't have to obey speed limit laws. Very selective in your interpretation of laws.


Precisely. There is a definite entitlement that the folks advocating speed in excess of what the law allows hold, which is laughable.

I do feel that fair weather, clear condition limits are too slow on some roads. But I'm not going to play know better, entitled, "superior capability" driver with inadequate reading comprehension, and claim that I deserve to go faster. The law gives no such permit or exemption. Do it at your own peril.

That peril should be speed cameras and LEOs though, not some idiot who thinks they're entitled to set the speed. The hypocrisy on both sides is amazing.


Originally Posted By: Leo99


Do you even drive on the NJTPK with those idiot out of state drivers putzing along at 65-70 in the left lane with no one in front of them?

I've driven on the "autobahn". It's awesome.


Sure do, a decent amount from 7A to 16W. 72-75 is the normal speed I drive on there and 295, and 95 to dc. Never any issues, and in normally in the middle range of speed (passing some, some passing) in the car lanes, and biased towards the fastest in the truck lanes.

But I know better than to drive in the left lane (though I've driven plenty of times to dc where 65 is passing in the left lane and 60-65 is the middle).

The Autobahn works because people do know to stay left. But you would be lying to say that there aren't a ton of 60-100 kPH restricted trailers and trucks, and that on some stretches where the limit is invoked and quickly drops, that slow traffic exists to the left. Autobahn includes some rapid deceleration by law that is unlike in the US... and people follow those laws IME.

I do like that if someone passes on the right, BOTH parties are at fault.


What's somewhat laughable is the way the speed limits are set. I guess that might get into politics, but the federal highway system was designed for roads with 70 mph limits. It's not surprising that people drive faster because it feels fine driving that speed. AAA advocates for speed limits where 85% of the people drive at. Guess what, that speed is way higher than what the current limits are. Remember, it's not the speed that kills, it's the variation in speed. So the real nut jobs are the ones who hog the left lane. That lady would be alive now if someone didn't get road rage and brake check someone. There's theory and reality. If someone puts a gun to your head to rob you, that would not be a good time to point out to the robber that you're going to identify them to the police and that what they're doing is illegal. That would probably get you shot.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Don't have to tailgate dangerously to prevent other cars from cutting over ... can still follow at a reasonable safe distance and not leave a gigantic hole for squirrels to pop into.


You're not familiar with how traffic works around here. All you need is about 5 feet to squeeze the nose of your car into the space. That forces the driver to slow down and let him in. Once he slows down, the space opens up. On the other hand, if his nose is behind your nose, he can't get in no matter how close he gets.


I've lived in a heavily populated area for 30+ years with over 2 million people and tons of traffic and lunitics on the road. Commuted 50 miles a day for many years, so saw all kinds of lunacy on the roads.

I dont have to dangerously tailgate the car in front of me to prevent idiots from forcing his car in front of mine. It might happen a few times in a year that some crackhead goes totally nuts, but typically most people are not that insane to try and squeeze their car into a space of normal following distance. Tailgating too close is just asking for an accident, just a matter of time.


Hmm... Not really sure about your area, but we're pretty well known to have crazy drivers and I know people who don't want to drive in the city. It happens here all the time, usually a couple times a hour while driving. The first time it kinda reminds you to pay better attention and to minimize the gap. But the crazies will do it anyway and count on you to brake to let them in. It's so common that you don't even honk anymore, it's pointless.

It's easy to tailgate, you just have your foot hover over the brake and keep an eye out to watch the 2-3 cars ahead of the one you're tailgating. If anyone brakes, that's a sign you should brake. It'd be too late if you waited for the guy in front to do it. You don't tailgate a vehicle where you can't see the traffic in front of them though. Somewhat exhausting and hard to do for long so eventually the gap increases and someone cuts you off.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Hmm... Not really sure about your area, but we're pretty well known to have crazy drivers and I know people who don't want to drive in the city. It happens here all the time, usually a couple times a hour while driving. The first time it kinda reminds you to pay better attention and to minimize the gap. But the crazies will do it anyway and count on you to brake to let them in. It's so common that you don't even honk anymore, it's pointless.


I remember eons ago... I found myself driving on a regular basis through MA & CT, and wound up believing that at all times someone wanted to kill me while driving through those states. I had to take a break for a while, I got so paranoid. When I went back to driving in those states, I decided to take a page from them & drove faster. Immediate fix to the problem. I can't explain it, but the right lane was just dangerous, center not much better. Drive fast enough to stay center or left, and magically it's only a couple of really fast drivers that I have to worry about--and even they just zip on by.

Quote:
It's easy to tailgate, you just have your foot hover over the brake and keep an eye out to watch the 2-3 cars ahead of the one you're tailgating. If anyone brakes, that's a sign you should brake. It'd be too late if you waited for the guy in front to do it. You don't tailgate a vehicle where you can't see the traffic in front of them though. Somewhat exhausting and hard to do for long so eventually the gap increases and someone cuts you off.


Yep, monitor the road for as far as you can see, and then it becomes easy. That's true even if you're following at the proper distance.

I have to wonder. Never tried this. But if I were to, in heavy traffic, have someone cut in front of me, wouldn't I have to slow down to get a safe & proper following distance? Wouldn't I wind up in some sort of perpetual slowing down state, and turn into a roadblock myself?

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Hmm... Not really sure about your area, but we're pretty well known to have crazy drivers and I know people who don't want to drive in the city. It happens here all the time, usually a couple times a hour while driving. The first time it kinda reminds you to pay better attention and to minimize the gap. But the crazies will do it anyway and count on you to brake to let them in. It's so common that you don't even honk anymore, it's pointless.


I remember eons ago... I found myself driving on a regular basis through MA & CT, and wound up believing that at all times someone wanted to kill me while driving through those states. I had to take a break for a while, I got so paranoid. When I went back to driving in those states, I decided to take a page from them & drove faster. Immediate fix to the problem. I can't explain it, but the right lane was just dangerous, center not much better. Drive fast enough to stay center or left, and magically it's only a couple of really fast drivers that I have to worry about--and even they just zip on by.

Quote:
It's easy to tailgate, you just have your foot hover over the brake and keep an eye out to watch the 2-3 cars ahead of the one you're tailgating. If anyone brakes, that's a sign you should brake. It'd be too late if you waited for the guy in front to do it. You don't tailgate a vehicle where you can't see the traffic in front of them though. Somewhat exhausting and hard to do for long so eventually the gap increases and someone cuts you off.


Yep, monitor the road for as far as you can see, and then it becomes easy. That's true even if you're following at the proper distance.

I have to wonder. Never tried this. But if I were to, in heavy traffic, have someone cut in front of me, wouldn't I have to slow down to get a safe & proper following distance? Wouldn't I wind up in some sort of perpetual slowing down state, and turn into a roadblock myself?


All you have to do is look at the traffic, no one really follows at a 3 second distance around here, more like 1 or 2, the one second ones are the tailgaters. If you leave too big a gap like a 4-5 second one, that annoys all the people behind you and they'll try to slingshot around you by going into the right and then switching lanes to jump in front. Of course if there's traffic, they can't do that which leads to eventual road rage...

What I don't really understand is why the left lane hogs continue to do it. It's their action that leads to dead people on the roads. All they have to is move over to let traffic pass. It's like holding the door for the next person. The left lane hog is the one that slams the door in someone else's face and pushes the close door button when they see you coming on the elevator. That's all legal also.

 

[DBMaster]

As Car and Driver once stated a long time ago, it's not the speed that's the issue. It's the differences in speed. If everyone drove the same speed and followed logical rules traffic would always move and we'd get where we need to go with minimal fuss. Add in all the human factors and you have what we have. Automated vehicles and roadways are our only hope for improvement as population continues to increase. You can talk all you want about what drivers SHOULD do, except they won't do it. Waste of time and energy to keep producing these threads, unless it's therapeutic to get it all out. I would posit that ALL of us are guilty of some driving faux pas at least occasionally. Automation can't come soon enough for me. Unfortunately, it probably won't happen in my lifetime so I'll continue to shorten my life span with the stress associated with commuting.

 

[fdcg27]

People do drive stupidly these days everywhere.
Trying to go really fast in heavy traffic doesn't work and is only an exercise in frustration.
Tailgating only irritates the leading driver and thus encourages him to stay in the left lane.
We all need to be more cooperative and less aggressive in our driving.
It amazes me how guys who wouldn't have the nerve to say anything to your face become super warriors when behind the wheel.
Road driving isn't a competitive sport for those unable to engage in a real one.
I do see a lot of aggressive driving from those driving the lease grade models of certain supposed performance brands.

 

[spasm3]

Originally Posted By: Wolf359
What I don't really understand is why the left lane hogs continue to do it. It's their action that leads to dead people on the roads. All they have to is move over to let traffic pass.

It's a mental issue. It gives them a sense of power and especially control. Makes up for control issues in other parts of their life.

 

[Claud]

Speeding for most people is posturing. Look at me, I can drive my car fast!. I must be something special with my imagined skills!. Hey girls, check out my motor!.
Oh, I got in a wreck it was the other people driving too slowly that are to blame!. We must raise the speed limits because I will able to get through bust roads faster.

Pathetic. Grow up and learn to drive safely.

I was no better when I was young and ignorant btw.

Claud.

 

[grampi]

There seems to be a lot of hypocrisy in this thread. People want other drivers to obey the keep right except to pass law, but they believe it's okay to speed and/or tailgate...

 

[zzyzzx]

Yet still another symptom of our overpopulation problem.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Don't have to tailgate dangerously to prevent other cars from cutting over ... can still follow at a reasonable safe distance and not leave a gigantic hole for squirrels to pop into.

I sincerely welcome you to try that on the 401.

If there's room to fit in, they are fitting in, even if that puts them 2ft off your bumper and that of the car in front of you.

 

[KrisZ]

Yeah, our 400 series highways are quite crazy. However, over the years I've come to the conclusion that keeping my stress levels as low as possible is far more important, than trying to keep up with the rat race. So I usually put on some tunes I like, pick one of the middle lanes and leave a big gap in front. Yes lots of people will take it, but usually they will quickly move to the left. For some reason most of the crazies love the most left lane. My commute has been a lot better ever since I started doing this.

 

[DBMaster]

Most of these posts are still about the individual skill set and responses. It's not going to get better, folks, only worse. I see the signs daily. Just this morning I saw one vehicle make a lane change and then leave the signal on for miles afterward. Yet another was driving with the DRLs and no other lights and it was quite dark. Inattention, lack of skills, physical issues (vision, depth perception, night vision, etc.), psychological issues, mechanical issues... These are all at play. I know we're specifically talking about lane discipline here, but it's all part of the same can of worms. Driving individual cars was great until there got to be too many of them. Now it's not fun anymore. It's like expecting a pro golfer to have fun in a foursome with three rank amateurs. All of us "professional drivers" here can't even agree on exactly what the correct practice is.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: spasm3
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
What I don't really understand is why the left lane hogs continue to do it. It's their action that leads to dead people on the roads. All they have to is move over to let traffic pass.

It's a mental issue. It gives them a sense of power and especially control. Makes up for control issues in other parts of their life.

So what type of mental issue is it with people who think that speeding and tailgating are acceptable?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Yeah, our 400 series highways are quite crazy. However, over the years I've come to the conclusion that keeping my stress levels as low as possible is far more important, than trying to keep up with the rat race. So I usually put on some tunes I like, pick one of the middle lanes and leave a big gap in front. Yes lots of people will take it, but usually they will quickly move to the left. For some reason most of the crazies love the most left lane. My commute has been a lot better ever since I started doing this.


I have been just taking the 407 instead. It having what are basically two left lanes through most of the GTA due to its width/lane count really seems to help, and of course the lower traffic volume at any time of day.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: grampi
So what type of mental issue is it with people who think that speeding and tailgating are acceptable?

It's the difference between theory and reality. Everyone tailgates and speeds around here. It's probably how 85% of the people drive. The left lane hogs make it worse for everyone else and leads to dead people.