The Hunt for Red ADBV

[98AV6]

I've been going nuts checking my local NAPA and Carquest dealers for a 51344 Wix with a silicone ADBV for my Honda.
All they have in stock is the older style filter with a black nitrile ADBV.
My question for

in the Toronto area ,is there such beast up here? From which dealer? Only available in

? Or is this a recent part and I will have to wait for stocks to turn over? Thanks in advance for any info.

 

[Ray H]

I'm running a Canadian-made Honda oil filter (bought from my dealer in California shortly after acquiring my '96 Honda Accord). The Honda died at my hands nearly two years ago, but the filter is finally in service in my '03 Hyundai Sonata. The Honda filter has the orange ADB flap which presumably signifies silicone "rubber". But, this presumption is based on nothing more than blind faith Kentucky windage. Silicone "rubber" can be tinted black just as readily as nitrile can be tinted orange (and I've seen some black ADBs with a mysterious sheen that didn't appear to be your father's nitrile, but...). Anyway, after my next oil change, back to my remaining stash of new "old-stock" (blue-can) ST 2808s, which I'm sure uses nitrile, that I have around. Good luck in your quest - you could always go with a Purolator "Pure One" for orange gasket and ADB.

 

[TC]

I had the same problem (Wix/Napa Golds with black nitrile ADBVs) down here in California as well. But keep in mind that if your filter is installed in a holes-up position, an ADBV, while still playing a role in holding back the "column of oil" above it, is of less significance than if mounted in a holes-down or horizontal position. For some reason all this reminds me of Britney Spears...or maybe Christina Aguilara.

 

[boxcartommie22]

i learned from three filter companies that silicone (red) adbv are nothing but marketing ploy .the only reason to have one is for very long oil filter changes> 7000 which should never be done in the first place.

 

[TC]

"I learned from three filter companies that silicone (red) adbv are nothing but marketing ploy." I looked into this and quickly found the following:

"Nitrile rubber is generally serviceable between -40°C and 105°C. Silicone rubber can be used in the range of -60°C to 200°C."
"Silicones have many unique properties which most organic elastomers (which would include nitrile) are unable to copy. One excellent example is the wide operating temperature range, from the very low temperature of -100°C to the very high temperature of 316°C. This makes silicones excellent for many automotive and industrial applications. Silicone rubber has many of the advantages of organics but is free of most of the disadvantages."
http://www.dowcorning.com/content/rubber/silicone-organics.asp
http://www.skt.com.tr/malzeme.php?dil=i
http://www.itran-tompkinsrubber.com/iproperti.html

Both nitrile and silicone are good down to at least -40F, but the last firm above pegs nitrile's upper safe temp limit at 100C/212F. The websites below indicate that typical engine oil temps for both automotive gasoline and truck diesel engines are in the 200°F-240°F range, with 220F "normal." These temps exceed the safe working temps of nitrile, it would seem. THIS ALONE WOULD INDICATE THAT SILICONE IS THE WAY TO GO. For ultra-cold temps, silicone also beats nitrile.
http://www.2carpros.com/topics/oiltemp.htm
http://www.cummins.com/jp/pages/en/....cfm?uuid=00041C0F-EDC4-1981-9BB380C4A8F0FC10

"The only reason to have one (silicone ADBV) is for very long oil filter changes >7000 which should never be done in the first place."

NONSENSE. Here's just three exemplary UOAs over 10K mi, with plenty more where these came from, AND NOT ONE OVER 20 PPM IRON!!!

2000 Nissan Sentra
11,946 mi on Mobil 1: 19 ppm iron
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001849#000000

1999 Ford Crown Victoria
16,515 mi on Amsoil: 20 ppm iron
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001775#000003

2003 BMW 330ci
11,002 mi on BMW synthetic oil: 15 ppm iron
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001368

 

[T-Keith]

A silicone ADBV may not be needed for a cool running engine with 3000 mile OCI, but for longer drains or hot running oil, I'd want it.

Have you tried a Pure One or Mobil 1 filter? The Pure one should run you about the same as the Wix, the M1 will be about twice as much.

-T

 

[Ray H]

Interesting data, TC. So why do the OEMs put filters on their warranted products that allegedly can't protect in the expected temperature ranges of summer driving in the southwestern United States? Cite me actual cases of engine damage caused by original equipment or aftermarket oil filters using nitrile gaskets and ADB valves. I have no quarrel with those who wish to go the extra expense for premium replacement filters. It's their money and in a free society, they can spend it as they choose. But, I do question blithe assertions that a material that's worked more than adequately for more than a half century is suddenly a peril. Something just doesn't fit, here.

 

[jsharp]

Elastomers don't just fail when their working temperatures are exceeded, the materials begin to lose their properties. Some of the changes are permanent, some are temporary and the typical properties for the material may return when the temperature is reduced. The longer the material is used above it's recommended working temp and the greater the temperature, the more pronounced these changes are.

Silicone is clearly a better material for something like an ADBV given the operating conditions. The question is, is nitrile good enough most of the time. My guess is, probably so...

 

[Ray H]

quote:

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Originally posted by jsharp:
...The question is, is nitrile good enough most of the time. My guess is, probably so...

---

Obviously, most OEMs agree with you, and they typically recommend a minimum of 7,500 mile OCIs under normal service these days. For me, that frees me to waste my money on cheap broads and expensive booze instead of overpriced, metallic painted oil filters. (We all have our priorities...) By the way, 200C. translates to about 392F. Since that cuts uncomfortably close to the flash points of many conventional motor oils, I'd be surprised to find that oil temperature is commonplace in passenger car (or even heavy truck) operation. The oil filter only receives oil from the sump which, itself, is constantly exposed to the cooling effects of airflow.

 

[brianl703]

quote:

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Originally posted by boxcartommie22:
i learned from three filter companies that silicone (red) adbv are nothing but marketing ploy .the only reason to have one is for very long oil filter changes> 7000 which should never be done in the first place.

---

Ford started making some (not all; the FL-1A has a nitrile ADBV) of their filters with silicone ADBV after they changed from a 7500 mile oci to a 5000 mile oci for most of their vehicles.

They also released a TSB addressing startup noise on the 1995 2.5L V6 Contour/Mystique which stated, among other things, that use of the new Motorcraft FL-820S will reduce startup noise.

That leads me to believe that the FL-820 did NOT have a silicone anti-drainback valve prior to about 95/96. Also the filter box made reference to a "new silicone anti-drainback valve" for a number of years after that (I bought my first FL-820S in 1998, after I saw that TSB and figured that I ought to use the Ford filter...)

 

[T-Keith]

This ADBV was rock hard, definately eliminating it's function.


-T

 

[98AV6]

quote:

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TC if your filter is installed in a holes-up position, an ADBV, while still playing a role in holding back the "column of oil" above it, is of less significance than if mounted in a holes-down or horizontal position

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Good point. My Honda is definitely holes up. Winter temps fall to -40C here sometimes, I don't want my V6 doing a death rattle from oil starvation on cold starts.
Marketing also plays a role. Who wants to buy yesterdays model(even though it works) when you can get the new improved one with all the fancy features?!