The Fallacy (fallacies?) behind "It's cheap insurance"

[macarose]

I don't care about who does what, but I do try to be helpful.

Here's an article that I wrote about oil changes way back when (circa 2014). A few things have changed since then.

R

Post in thread 'Should you change your oil every 15,000 miles?'

Aug 19, 2014

It should be replaced every time you change your oil.

• Rose

There are three things you can conclude from the article.

1. If you deeply care about the length of your interval, you can always perform a used oil analysis to see whether or not it makes sense to adjust your OCI.

2. Most BITOG members will consider #1 irrelavent because they have their own unique way of doing things based on what they drive, How they drive. Where they drive. Etc.

3. I have a dealership. But when it comes to my kids vehicles, I always use a premium oil filter that last at least 10,000 miles, and replace it every other oil change. Never an issue. I change my own oil every 5,000 miles because I can often get the cost down to around $10 to $15 a jug for a high-quality motor oil when I use rebates. Never an issue.

I also do the 5k oil changes so that my kids can rotate their tires for free at Discount Tire. I replace the air filters on a timely basis (15k to 60k). I also do the transmission fluid every 30k to 50k. Power steering fluid every 50k. Brake bleed whenever I get new pads, and change the coolant every 100,000 miles.

Some of that is frankly just kicking the bucket of time remaining before it's full. But it keeps little problems from ever getting big. So yeah, cheap insurance.

 

[Zee09]

A Drama Burger

 

[Patman]

I hear people tell me all the time that they change their oil every 3k because it’s cheap insurance but it’s really not. I stopped doing 3k changes about 20 years ago and so over that time period I have easily saved THOUSANDS of dollars in oil. And haven’t had any engine problems. 3k changes would have not benefited me in the slightest.

 

[Hootbro]

That is a "you" problem.

 

[Zee09]

I hear people tell me all the time that they change their oil every 3k because it’s cheap insurance but it’s really not. I stopped doing 3k changes about 20 years ago and so over that time period I have easily saved THOUSANDS of dollars in oil. And haven’t had any engine problems. 3k changes would have not benefited me in the slightest.

If you stopped eating you could have saved millions....
Don't waste you breath as I already left ....

 

[Patman]

If you stopped eating you could have saved millions....
Don't waste you breath as I already left ....

You know me, with all of my apps and coupons I really only spend a couple of dollars a day on food

 

[Hall]

I think using good oil is "cheap insurance"

Are there actually "bad" oils available to buy on store shelves (in the US) ?

 

[Zee09]

Are there actually "bad" oils available to buy on store shelves (in the US) ?

Only VRP

 

[Patman]

Are there actually "bad" oils available to buy on store shelves (in the US) ?

Technically yes. If you were to use Supertech in a turbocharged vehicle that calls for a more stringent approval then it is a bad oil for that application

 

[SC Maintenance]

There are also fallacies from years ago like: a good dino oil can go 5K miles, and a good synthetic oil can go 10K miles. Completely skipping the vehicle or how it was being used.

Also skips the fact that oil filters have not gotten any better either. If anything there worse.

 

[demarpaint]

Also skips the fact that oil filters have not gotten any better either. If anything there worse.

That's another hot topic for sure. Not to get too deep into it, Fram has disappointed many of us.

 

[SC Maintenance]

The term "cheap insurance" that seems to upset some is a simple way of saying that for the minimal cost I am unwilling to take the risk.

Its like any other kind of insurance. The odds of actually needing your home-owners insurance are very slim, yet almost everyone has it. Why no hate fore people that carry home-owners insurance? Statistically its a bad decision.

Everyone has a different level of risk aversion.

 

[ltslimjim]

Also skips the fact that oil filters have not gotten any better either. If anything there worse.

True.

Decisions made on the assumption of accurate intel is where anyone here can get themselves into trouble. Is the intel and advice applicable to every situation? Of course not. Changing the oil? Of course! What oil, when to change it, and the why are very subjective and conditional.

This is why extending the OCI is meant to be done with a series of UOAs, rather than a blanket “any synthetic will go x miles”…so much is actually more into the probabilities of an educated guess of success (at best) than anyone can actually guarantee the results, because of many variables that are beyond our control. Same engine. Different conditions. Same or different oil choice; regardless, can lead to Different OCI recommendations that make most sense.

Engine family? Usage pattern?

Shorter OCIs by themselves don’t guarantee anything, it’s only an educated guess. Entry level oil or more common OTS synthetics could be insufficient. We’ve seen that here with some oil burners getting oil consumption reversed once changing over to VRP. That was with 5k mile OCIs in @Glenda W. ’s case.

Argument can be made that those engine families require better, more well thought out oil choices. Regardless of OCI. Shorter isn’t a guarantee. It’s merely one way to curb risk. Extending intervals blindly is inherently risky. Making educated and informed choices, therefore in context, is where blanket statements no longer matter. You’re trying to play within the limits and change before headroom is taken up. This, for me, is where I don’t mind paying for boutique or certain oils I believe give me more room before limits are reached. Cheap insurance? Call it what you want.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Technically yes. If you were to use Supertech in a turbocharged vehicle that calls for a more stringent approval then it is a bad oil for that application

Probably still fine if you run a short OCI

 

[ltslimjim]

Probably still fine if you run a short OCI

I was told if I changed the oil every 3k miles, I’d be fine because oil was just oil! /s

Am I doing it right?

 

[panthermike]

So let's at least be honest enough to admit it. The truth of the matter is revealed by the phrase " religiously maintained." It's because it satisfies a belief system, provides a sense of peace. It helps us feel superior to the unwashed masses. "Religiously-maintained" indeed! With all the aspects of faith and judgment and emotional fulfillment that comes along with such!

Has this ever not been the case? A lot of people make decisions this way. Not sure it matters in anyway whatsoever, it is what it is...(sorry if you don't like that one either )

 

[crashz]

I always felt like the term "it's cheap insurance" was used as a conversation stopper. It's the polite way of saying "I'm going to do what I want and this conversation is over". As Hohn points out, it justifies nearly everything other than blatantly ignoring maintenance.

 

[Starving Electrician]

Think if you will, about all the vehicles that are on the road in the united states right now, Today. All the different brands of vehicles, all the types of vehicles, all the sizes of vehicle engines, and all the brands of oil people are using. Cheap oil, expensive oils, middle of the road oils. And oils that are fresh in their engines, oils that are way overdue to be changed, and oils that read low on their dip sticks. And those vehicles keep on going day after day, month after month. That is something that can't be ignored. A vehicle's engine is the toughest part of any vehicle. In most cases, it will still be around and working after the trans gives up, the AC quits, the windows stop going up or down, the brakes wear out , or the body and frame and suspension parts rust to pieces. So it would be hard to say the saying "any oil is good oil", or " Oil is cheaper than an engine", isn't one of the truest statements in the automotive world.,,

I am not so sure on the engine is the toughest part claim. Every vehicle I've gotten rid of in my life due to failure has been due to engine issues. Typically low compression at decent mileage (300,000 plus). I've never junked a vehicle for a transmission, differential, or other major mechanical part. I think thats in large part because I change those lubricants with a good regularity.

Most don't I find. Which makes sense the amount of heat, stress, and pressures involved in an engine significantly out paces that found in other parts and it will fail first if all things are maintained well. Its that last part that I find to be the hang up. How many transmissions out there are barely clinging to life at 275K miles on the factory fill. I imagine quite a few. I will admit this math may be different for CVTs as those are a different animal.

 

[Hootbro]

I always felt like the term "it's cheap insurance" was used as a conversation stopper. It's the polite way of saying "I'm going to do what I want and this conversation is over". As Hohn points out, it justifies nearly everything other than blatantly ignoring maintenance.

Depends on the context of what is being discussed. I have seen people use the phrase when pushed on the details of why they do it that way and either have not thought it through or lack the capacity to think it through and articulate it.

 

[ripcord]

If everyone just stopped arguing about this and that and just did what the voices tell them to, the world would be a much better place.