Testing the "oil goes bad with age" theory

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Originally Posted By: Atomic
I'll contradict myself to the extent of saying I care enough to spend the $30 on a UOA.
Save yourself $20 and buy a WIX UOA Kit from Rock Auto. These kits are more than good enough for this situation.


I jumped on three of those kits, great deal!

 

[Dallas69]

Originally Posted By: 4WD
Started cold in sub zero temps and then an immediate run at WOT? … any reason for that?

Anything more from this guy I will take with a grain of salt.
He doesn't know how to take care of a car.
Please go back to lurking.

 

[deven]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: deven
You're comparing apples to oranges here. When we talk about oil going bad with age or not we are talking about oil in a bottle/container and not in the engine. Once it's in the engine oil definitely goes bad that's why most mfg say to change oil xxx miles or one year.


That's why this UOA will be very interesting ... it's oil that has been in the engine for ten years and only have 1,450 miles on the oil. Is there signs of degradation ... is it still usable? That's what everyone wants to know.

What do you think the UOA will tell you. TBN is going to be right up there as the car has been used very lightly. All other values will tell you nothing about the condition of the oil in my opinion. Wait and see once the UOA comes in.

 

[pandus13]

Originally Posted By: LotI
Originally Posted By: 4WD
Started cold in sub zero temps and then an immediate run at WOT? … any reason for that?

Camaro ambulance? Volunteer firefighter? Hankering for Doritos?

or typical US user, late for something , really early in the morning, no coffee yet, with a small patch in front of eyes scratched in the encased in frozen snow vehicle....

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: Atomic
Occasionally when started cold in sub-zero temps, it would be driven immediately at wide open throttle..


^^ Why......... oh why?!? ^^

There's a dude on here with a Suburban that's had Mobil 1 in the sump for 6 years...
his samples always come back excellent.
Remember with many engines that failed, no indication on UOA before they went. bye bye - even with cam lobes coming apart - no indication. Big metal bits are in the filter pleats or the sump pickup screen. Most of the metals you see in the UOA is through acid "wear" and EP additive conversion.

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: 4WD
Started cold in sub zero temps and then an immediate run at WOT? … any reason for that?


Ohio drivers.

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: Dallas69
Originally Posted By: 4WD
Started cold in sub zero temps and then an immediate run at WOT? … any reason for that?

Anything more from this guy I will take with a grain of salt.
He doesn't know how to take care of a car.
Please go back to lurking.


He;s admitted to practices that one might disapprove of. So what?

That doesn't of itself invalidate any results he might post.

If he "knew how to take care of a car" his results would, if anything, be less interesting, though I think its probably true that the "tough love" described might limit their generality.

Wasn't someone doing a similarly long-term test series on an old Datsun?

 

[4WD]

I asked him a question and he answered it ...

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: 4WD
I asked him a question and he answered it ...


Sure. I was reacting to Dallas69's post.

 

[1989outlaw]

If you’re doing full throttle pulls immediately after starting the engine in sub zero temps , don’t be worried about the oil . The engine isn’t going to last long enough for it to matter.

 

[Balrog006]

Originally Posted By: 1989outlaw
If you’re doing full throttle pulls immediately after starting the engine in sub zero temps , don’t be worried about the oil . The engine isn’t going to last long enough for it to matter.


Car is an ‘97 with 183K miles on it, not sure he’s really concerned...

 

[Atomic]

Originally Posted By: 1989outlaw
If you’re doing full throttle pulls immediately after starting the engine in sub zero temps , don’t be worried about the oil . The engine isn’t going to last long enough for it to matter.


Now that I'm finally by a computer again, I will address this and the other comments about abusing and killing the motor.

This was my first car as a teenager, bought about 13 years ago with 39k miles. One major repair was necessary during this time - a transmission rebuild at 81k. Oil changes were done religiously every 3k while on Castrol GTX, and every 5k for the last 90k or so on Mobil 1. The only routine maintenance ever done to the car aside from oil/filter was the brakes - all other fluids aside from the transmission fluid which now has 102k on it are the same as what came in it from the factory. Let's not argue the merits of whether any of this is "good" or "smart"; I'm simply giving you the full picture of the life of this car. At this point in it's life, I am absolutely fascinated by how much abuse it has taken and kept running just as quiet as it did early on.

I have absolutely zero concerns/worries about damaging the motor because the car has always been destined for a motor swap when this one kicks the bucket. If it dies tomorrow, it will get swapped. IF it dies in five years, it will get swapped. Until then, it will be driven the same as it always has been. The UOA is for science and to satisfy my curiosity while testing my personal theory that this motor has not been harmed one bit.

After 145k miles of being driven like a race car everywhere it has been, it would have died long ago if cold start WOT runs were bad for it.

If this UOA comes back good, there will be absolutely no way to say oil goes bad, whether in the car or on shelf, as the years pass by. If it comes back bad, then this is also good as it means I might be getting closer to a reason to finally do the swap!

 

[deven]

Originally Posted By: Atomic
motor has not been harmed one bit.

That is the problem, UOAs don't tell you if the motor has been harmed one bit or not. Only a tear down will tell you that!

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: deven
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: deven
You're comparing apples to oranges here. When we talk about oil going bad with age or not we are talking about oil in a bottle/container and not in the engine. Once it's in the engine oil definitely goes bad that's why most mfg say to change oil xxx miles or one year.


That's why this UOA will be very interesting ... it's oil that has been in the engine for ten years and only have 1,450 miles on the oil. Is there signs of degradation ... is it still usable? That's what everyone wants to know.

What do you think the UOA will tell you. TBN is going to be right up there as the car has been used very lightly. All other values will tell you nothing about the condition of the oil in my opinion. Wait and see once the UOA comes in.


So when an oil or vehicle manufacturer says to change the oil at least every year, no matter how low the mileage is, then what parameter of the oil is degrading for them to say it shouldn't be used more than 1 year? Can that parameter's degradation be see clearly in a UOA?

 

[ridgerunner]

Originally Posted By: Atomic
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: Atomic
I have no idea which side of the argument is correct, nor do I care.


Why the UOA then? Public service? If so, I salute you.

I care a bit, as in I'm mildly curious, but not enough to get a UOA.

Think I'm on about 6 years with the current fill, but in a much milder climate.


I'll contradict myself to the extent of saying I care enough to spend the $30 on a UOA. I've done much worse with $30, and the curiosity of seeing what comes back is appealing based on how many threads I've lurked in over the years that argued this point.


U could look up “don’t tell the wife” post I did several yrs ago when I used 1984-5 oil in my wife’s car and did a UOA. Good read!

 

[330indy]

ZeeOSix: "So when an oil or vehicle manufacturer says to change the oil at least every year, no matter how low the mileage is, then what parameter of the oil is degrading for them to say it shouldn't be used more than 1 year? Can that parameter's degradation be see clearly in a UOA?"

yep --- exactly what I would like to know!!
....sub'd

 

[deven]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: deven
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: deven
You're comparing apples to oranges here. When we talk about oil going bad with age or not we are talking about oil in a bottle/container and not in the engine. Once it's in the engine oil definitely goes bad that's why most mfg say to change oil xxx miles or one year.


That's why this UOA will be very interesting ... it's oil that has been in the engine for ten years and only have 1,450 miles on the oil. Is there signs of degradation ... is it still usable? That's what everyone wants to know.

What do you think the UOA will tell you. TBN is going to be right up there as the car has been used very lightly. All other values will tell you nothing about the condition of the oil in my opinion. Wait and see once the UOA comes in.


So when an oil or vehicle manufacturer says to change the oil at least every year, no matter how low the mileage is, then what parameter of the oil is degrading for them to say it shouldn't be used more than 1 year? Can that parameter's degradation be see clearly in a UOA?

Simply it's oil getting contaminated by soot and blow by. Oil slowly loses its capability to dissipate heat and hold soot/contaminants in suspension as it gets used more in an engine. These will definitely not show up in a UOA.

 

[burla]

Originally Posted By: PimTac

As for the WOT at subzero temps, it’s your car so you can run it as you want. I would never treat a vehicle like that.


Mother Superior, lol. Put the shame finger back in it's holster.

 

[JAG]

Oil in thin films, like often occurs on the sides of oil bottles can turn into an oxidized, sticky layer of varnish within several years. It never experienced blow-by, high temps., or the oxidation catalysts of iron and copper like oils used in engines have. I’d be most concerned about varnish from your old oil. How does it look inside the oil fill hole and dipstick?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: deven
Simply it's oil getting contaminated by soot and blow by. Oil slowly loses its capability to dissipate heat and hold soot/contaminants in suspension as it gets used more in an engine. These will definitely not show up in a UOA.


The amount of blow-by and soot is a function of the engine running. So if the amount of contaminates due to blow-by is the same after 1500 miles of use, then why would the oil have to be changed, regardless if those 1500 miles were done in 3 months or 10 years?

What makes the oil degrade while sitting in the sump that requires an oil change every year, even if it only has 150 miles on the oil? I'm assuming here that the engine is ran fully hot for a decent drive whenever it's driven so that any moisture is burned off inside the engine, and the engine is pretty modern with a closed PCV system (ie, less exposed to the atmoshere when sitting).