*TESTED- Joe Gibs vs Redlilne vs RP vs M1

[Miltellas]

I understand that "shear by design" is not a purpose but a weakness of a lubricant. I don't see why a "shear by desing" lube is needed by any engine.
HTHS goes together with viscosity but also with the additive package. "Shear by design" means that the additives regarding shearing are depleted fast. "Shear stable" means qualitative base lube accompanied by "strong" additive package.

It is better to use a lubricant that is compatible with our engine's tolerances. Compatible means that the lube has enough HTHS not less not more than engine needs, just to set piston rings moving full free but full protected. There is no "gold" lube for that. We have to compromise our needs with engine's needs.

 

[bruce381]

""But you can make that HP from the starting line with a thinner oil that stays in grade. Why be slower until a thicker oil shears. It's neither a lightly stressed passenger car nor an extended OCI."""

Your are 100% correct.

Shear by design is a mis nomer ALL VII oils will shear not by design but by limits on current VII's some are better than others BUT ALL will shear. To say so and so oils is designed to shear down and increase HP by DESIGN in use is a bad lousy marketing idea IMHO.
bruce

 

[buster]

Thanks bruce for clearing that up. I was wrong about that.

Is it possible then to determine from the J.Gibbs test that RL was the more shear stable oil?

 

[bruce381]

probably would be.

Also do not know the HTHS of the RL tested or the J Gibbs oil tested.
bruce

 

[Miltellas]

quote:

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Originally posted by buster:
Terry,

RL 30wt @ 100C = 9.8cSt
JGO 20wt @ 100C = 9.1 cSt

Do you think that small of a difference in viscosit would make that much of a difference? And how do you account for Mobil 1 R 0w-30, which is 10cSt @100c producing more power then RL in every test? According to JG's guys, the M1 was the second best oil they tested. Who would have thought...lol.

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As I understand the lower viscosity is not the only fact that promotes power. The HTHS index is another fact. Less HTHS translates as more power (together with less protection). And also a specific additive package can carry less friction factors that boosts power.

 

[LarryL]

I though Amsoil sponsored some racers. Do they make special oil for them, or do they use the same stuff that is sold to the public?

I saw a funny car with Quaker State painted all over the body. This car does the quarter mile in the 4 second range at over 300 miles an hour, burning nitro. I guess that's all I need to know, to be sure that I should use Quaker State oil in my daily driver. One thing I'm worried about. They probably don't do extended oil change intervals with a funny car, so that must be why the advertise that you should change your oil every three thousand miles. I guess that if I do 3k oci's I won't have to worry about the nitro that blows past my rings, getting sucked back up into the oil pump. I guess that's why oil companies sponsor race cars, so I'll know that their oil is good stuff.

 

[buster]

quote:

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I though Amsoil sponsored some racers. Do they make special oil for them, or do they use the same stuff that is sold to the public?

---

No, they don't custom blend anything for racing. According to these guys, they tried Amsoil 0w30 a few years back and didn't think much of it. It wasn't bad, just not as good as they wanted it to be.

Amsoil does sponsor the smaller racing teams and many use their S2000 20w-50. I don't believe they are recommending the 0w30 anymore for extreme racing since it is now an SM rated oil. For a 20w-50, the S2k is supposed to be very good.

The Pennzoil in the Pennzoil car is not the stuff you buy at PepBoys. All or most of these guys get custom made oil. In that Rusty Wallace article, he said they qualify with 0w-5wt oil.

 

[427Z06]

IMHO, I believe one should make a distinction between temporary shear and permanent shear. PCMOs for street vehicles use temporary shear for fuel economy purposes. Permanent shear is usually always bad unless is designed to compensate for oxidative thickening for long OCI, and some even debate the merit of this.

 

[Bill]

Posted by LarryL:

quote:

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I saw a funny car with Quaker State painted all over the body. This car does the quarter mile in the 4 second range at over 300 miles an hour, burning nitro. I guess that's all I need to know, to be sure that I should use Quaker State oil in my daily driver.

---

Larry,

The Top Fuel Nitro crowd whether Dragster or Funny Car change the oil 'Two Times' for each run down the quarter mile. The engine crew do their thing to get the engine ready for the 4.5 second race, then the oil is changed before the car lines up at the Christmas Tree, the oil is only used for a quarter mile,
I would not compare the Nitro running class with the daily driver, two different animals.


Slightly

Are there any UOAs for cars that have run the quarter mile?

I wonder what a quarter mile UOA would look like?

Probably lots of blow-by fuel

 

[bruce381]

quote:

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Originally posted by 427Z06:
IMHO, I believe one should make a distinction between temporary shear and permanent shear. PCMOs for street vehicles use temporary shear for fuel economy purposes.

---

I do not think so any shear loss permanent or otherwsie is NOT reliable enough and efficient enough to get any fuel mileage increase.
The only proven way is to formulate to a mid/low vis range AND use a good FM. Like GMO or GMT or other esters with or with out moly/boron.
bruce

 

[bulwnkl]

GMO = Genetically Modified Organism?
GMT = Greenwich Mean Time?

 

[bruce381]

quote:

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Originally posted by bulwnkl:
GMO = Genetically Modified Organism?
GMT = Greenwich Mean Time?

---

Sorry

GMO = Glycerol Mono Oleate
GMT = Glycerol Mono Tallate
BGO = Boron Glycerol Oleate

Common esters for FM used at about .5-1.0% to get EC rating out of Base PCMO.
bruce

 

[bulwnkl]

Thanks!

 

[buster]

From Joe Gibb's tech:

Quote:

---

We don't use any Group III base oils in our fully synthetic race oil
formulas. We actually found that a blend of Group IV and Group V works
the best for durability and power. We've done extensive base oil testing
since 1999 when we began having our own oil blended, and a blend of
group IV and group V has always proven to perform the best in our NASCAR
engines.

---

 

[tdi-rick]

what actually impresses me, and has been already stated more than once in this thread is how close the oils actually are.
Personally I'd have loved to see multiple runs on each oil than average the results and compare. Then do Terry's UOA proposal.
Having done the light oil, low pressure thing in race engines and self funded, it gets expensive experimenting to keep up/beat the well funded teams.

At least 15 years ago it was an advantage to play with oils as very few knew of or were prepared to use the ultra light stuff (0W-5)

 

[427Z06]

Quote:

---

quote:

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Originally posted by 427Z06:
IMHO, I believe one should make a distinction between temporary shear and permanent shear. PCMOs for street vehicles use temporary shear for fuel economy purposes.

---

I do not think so any shear loss permanent or otherwsie is NOT reliable enough and efficient enough to get any fuel mileage increase.
The only proven way is to formulate to a mid/low vis range AND use a good FM. Like GMO or GMT or other esters with or with out moly/boron.
bruce

---

Huh? Take two 10 cSt @100C kinematic viscosity oils. One has a HTHS of 2.9, the other has a HTHS of 3.8, the one with the lower HTHS is temporarily shearing more and most likely will get better fuel economy in a modern engine design driven normally on the street. Pushrod pig-iron, or race conditions, different story.

Some Amsoil oils are an example of oils that don't permanently shear much, so they tend to thicken due to oxidative thickening.