Tesla AutoPilot runs over and kills motorcycle rider

I am not blaming anything. I am following the article. I expect more to come out.
Remember a few years ago when the Tesla, on a private unmarked road killed the 2 elder men in the back seat? It was all hogwarsh.
So? I remember bunch of Tesla accidents where vehicle slammed into objects like trucks etc. I actually witnessed one in Indiana when Tesla on auto pilot slammed into fire truck on interstate that was responding to other accident.
Both occupants were killed.
I am really not sure after everything, somking gun is: aha, driver had a drink.
 
This system is not ready for primetime and calling is "autopilot" and "FSD" makes it even worse. But hey, dump your money in TSLA, the robotaxi is coming in August!
I believe the full name of the software is FSD Supervised. The last part is the important part...
 
My take is, it is the operator using the tool incorrectly, at least as a component of the accident....
We used to say what separated man from the animals was man used tools. Now that we've noticed a number of animals using tools, perhaps the difference is that man misupoor house.

Once autopilot matures (robotaxis, etc.) I predict lawyers will go after deep pockets like a big dog even if auto is 10 times safer than manual. Something will have to change in tort or liability law or the ambulance chasers will have the manufacturers in the poorhouse.
 
Tesla tells you to keep control of the car at all times. The nag reminds you to keep both hands on the wheel. Let's see what comes of this. So many times articles blame the car when the driver has responsibility.
What is the point of "Autopilot" if you're supposed to keep both hands on the wheel and control of the car at all times? Does your car have it and how do you use it?
 
What is the point of "Autopilot" if you're supposed to keep both hands on the wheel and control of the car at all times? Does your car have it and how do you use it?
This is where the line is drawn by Tesla's lawyers. What Tesla tells you to do is the correct thing to do, which may or may not keep them out of court when someone dies. What the system enables you to do is different than what Tesla is officially telling you to do.
 
What is the point of "Autopilot" if you're supposed to keep both hands on the wheel and control of the car at all times? Does your car have it and how do you use it?
I suggest you check out some Tesla AP videos. See for yourself.
Our car is a 2018 Mid Range Model 3 with EAP, which is Extended Auto Pilot. That's is what was available at the time; it was a $6K option as I recall. It does a lot, but will not engage on city streets. It also has self park, summon and a bunch of other things.

I will demonstrate it to others if they are interested, but I really do not use it. I am not that interested.
 
This is where the line is drawn by Tesla's lawyers. What Tesla tells you to do is the correct thing to do, which may or may not keep them out of court when someone dies. What the system enables you to do is different than what Tesla is officially telling you to do.

And that's where they're opening themselves up to a huge liability.
 
Let's put it this way, no matter what we think in here, whether we want to trash the driver or Tesla.

The game is played in the courts, in front of a jury. Not a judge, a jury.
Juries sometimes sympathize with victims over corporations (like hello?) There will come a court case where, let's say the driver believed he was being mostly safe because Tesla's marketing led him to BELIEVE he was being reasonably safe.
I could see two lawsuits against a car company, one from the owner of the car that killed someone and one from the victim who got killed.

Attorneys are going to go after the big money pie wherever they think they can win and all they have to do is convince a jury (not a judge) that their plaintiff is the victim. From what I understand Tesla owners agree to arbitration (?) not sure how that would work.

I see the comments in here asking did the operator use the "tool correctly" ?
I think this is missing the point, how did the manufacturer of the "tool" market the product? Was it marketed in a way that obscured the fact that the car can not self drive on its own and still needs driver input?

I read those materials from Tesla briefly. The promotional part leads one to believe all the wonderful aspects of its self driving technology. A jury could rule that putting a disclaimer after the marketing verbiage was not enough to make sure the purchaser know exactly the limitations? Did the owner of the car understand what he/she was reading? Were they even capable of reading and comprehending? Also he disclaimer part come AFTER the hyped up marketing could be read as misleading.

BTW- I have no idea if this is the case, but I am bringing up valid points that things are not as cut and dry as they are. There lies responsibility on a manufacturer to make sure the driver understands what they are selling and not have to decipher through marketing materials to understand it and of course a reasonable expectation the driver was doing that or understood that was to be done.

I think this can sink the "self driving" aspect of the car industry in marketing or the industry just accept its cars on self driving are going to kill people, just like drivers on non self driving kill people and will the companies will self insure for those lawsuits, much like insurance companies insure humans against lawsuits. I wonder if and how many self driving car companies already paid out compensation to avoid a court case, the cost part of doing business, along with non disclosure agreement with the parties involved. Got me.

It's kind of funny, wife and I ran into some family last night. They drove their 2024 Lincoln Navigator from NY to here, Roughly a 10 hour drive. I cant keep track of this guy, he takes cars in for oil changes and like in this case drove out in a new 2024 Lincoln Navigator for his wife that he bought waiting for the oil change *LOL*. He has also owned 2 Mustangs Mach EVs. I thought he still had one.

Anyway it came with what Ford calls it "Blue Cruise" with wording like that, one would automatically think, as I did when I heard the words, much like cruise control in a car, you still have to be interacting with the car driving it.

I dont know anything about Fords Blue Cruise except he told me for the 10 hour trip, roughly 8 hours of interstate he didnt have to touch the steering wheel. The family absolutely loves the car (or should I say bus *LOL*) Its huge, even the kids had a blast on the road trip, huge screens for movies and I think games too. This guy is a down to earth incredible family guy, would help anyone, the kind of family you would love to have living next door, self made newly what I would call wealthy guy who invented something, patented it and now being sold across this country, unbelievable the opportunities that still exist today in the USA, anyway, he was very impressed with the "Blue Cruise"
 
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The problem with these new car technologies is that they are making many people even worse drivers. Cell phone use while driving could be easily disabled in software on modern phones if legislators had the will to do it.

What you can't mandate is for the driver to be engaged in the driving, when car features are taking that engagement away. I don't think you can realistically expect drivers to be attentive in the emergency when the car is doing everything else for him most of the time.
 
The problem with these new car technologies is that they are making many people even worse drivers. Cell phone use while driving could be easily disabled in software on modern phones if legislators had the will to do it.

What you can't mandate is for the driver to be engaged in the driving, when car features are taking that engagement away. I don't think you can realistically expect drivers to be attentive in the emergency when the car is doing everything else for him most of the time.
I agree 100% with the second part of your post.

The first part I think impossible, it would require everyone's phone to be disabled if someone is in motion. Like let's say, passengers in vehicles as the phone wouldnt know who is driving or if they are even in a vehicle instead of a bus or train.
 
The problem with these new car technologies is that they are making many people even worse drivers. Cell phone use while driving could be easily disabled in software on modern phones if legislators had the will to do it.

What you can't mandate is for the driver to be engaged in the driving, when car features are taking that engagement away. I don't think you can realistically expect drivers to be attentive in the emergency when the car is doing everything else for him most of the time.

No driver assist system removes the ability to take control of the car, or "engagement" away.
 
Hopefully litigation over matters like this will become so frequent and expensive that manufacturers will have to stop offering this ridiculous option. If you need to get somewhere and don't have the wherewithal to actually drive a vehicle, take an Uber and sleep/daydream/Instagram/text in the car to your heart's desire.
But but but robo taxi is da future, just trust me. If you don't understand then go away and never buy shares again...
 
Hopefully litigation over matters like this will become so frequent and expensive that manufacturers will have to stop offering this ridiculous option. If you need to get somewhere and don't have the wherewithal to actually drive a vehicle, take an Uber and sleep/daydream/Instagram/text in the car to your heart's desire.
Any Musk keeps claiming "we're almost there just a few small hurdles." This is why the masses kept buying. " Oh Elon says it's so". Mercedes has beat Tesla to level 3 albeit in a few select areas but. I'm shocked that the NHTSA hasn't completed pulled fsd and autopilot.
 
I believe the full name of the software is FSD Supervised. The last part is the important part...
Yeah "full self driving" but the camera has to have your eyes looking forward with your hands resting on the wheel and you must be attentive to take over even before it tells you using your human instinct because muh superior and muh faster computer can but seemingly can't react fast enough for real world driving. Total scam. Anyone who paid over a dollar for this "full self driving" sham deserved to get robbed.
 
The problem with these new car technologies is that they are making many people even worse drivers. Cell phone use while driving could be easily disabled in software on modern phones if legislators had the will to do it.

What you can't mandate is for the driver to be engaged in the driving, when car features are taking that engagement away. I don't think you can realistically expect drivers to be attentive in the emergency when the car is doing everything else for him most of the time.
Teslas have numerous warnings and will disable AP if it senses the driver is not engaged. I don't know much about other cars.

The AP feature provides visual and audible warnings to alert the driver of their constant supervisory responsibility. The driver is responsible for the vehicle's operation at all times while the feature is engaged.

When you or another driver of your vehicle receives five forced Autopilot disengagements, use of Full Self-Driving (Beta) is suspended for a week. A forced disengagement is when the Autopilot system disengages for the remainder of a trip after the driver receives several audio and visual warnings for inattentiveness.
 
But but but robo taxi is da future, just trust me. If you don't understand then go away and never buy shares again...
This! If Americans were semi-intelligent they'd walk away from Tesla. Musk is a lying hack. I'd bet money there is no model 2. Why? There hasn't been a single test vehicle spotted testing anywhere on the planet.
 
I suspect he means and I took it as the vehicle not needing driver engagement so the driver no longer pays attention. Not that the vehicle forbids engagement

Probably where he was going.

Every single driver aid and or license to use them requires the driver to remain attentive ready to take control.
 
This! If Americans were semi-intelligent they'd walk away from Tesla. Musk is a lying hack. I'd bet money there is no model 2. Why? There hasn't been a single test vehicle spotted testing anywhere on the planet.
I get it on Musk himself but I dont know of many products that you rate because of the company CEO.
Also there is no Model 2 mentioned in the latest earnings release only a less expensive car. But true he brought this on by saying Reuters is lying when they were not or else he would have sued them.

Im only saying the above because I dont think we can deny that Tesla Vehicle engineering itself is the ground breaking standard for Battery EV production. Meaning the system is the best in the EV world. Im not saying the vehicle itself is for everyone. Meaning calling it a luxury vehicle to me is nuts as there is so much better. But the systems of the car have to be acknowledged among the best offered at the current time, though of course others are coming onboard every passing month.
 
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