T6 in Outback 2.5

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted By: turnbowm
The Shell Rotella Team has been advising against the use of Rotella T6 in gas cars with catalytic converters for many years. Rotella T6 doesn't even have an API gas rating anymore.

I'm running a T6 with an SN rating. Additionally, if something was suitable for a car last October, it didn't become magically unsuitable this summer. T6 0w-40 is also a Canadian product with a gasoline rating.

It seems to be there's only one T6 product that's not gasoline rated, and given that it's E7, E9, I wouldn't worry in the least.
 
Originally Posted By: turnbowm
Dear Sir,
No Rotella Oils are recommended for use in gasoline vehicles with catalytic converters.
Regards,
Shell Technical"

That's odd, since the global head of Shell commercial lubricants says otherwise, and did so right here on BITOG.
whistle.gif


Data sheets and specifications also disagree.
 
Originally Posted By: turnbowm
Originally Posted By: irv
Originally Posted By: turnbowm


"In reference to your query, please see below message from Shell Technical Team.
Thank you.
Hope this helps. For further assistance, please respond back to this email or call our Customer Service hotline and you will be assisted as soon as possible.
Sincerely,
Estefanie Rigor
Consumer Customer Service Team
Phone: 1-800-237-8645
Email: [email protected]


Dear Sir,
No Rotella Oils are recommended for use in gasoline vehicles with catalytic converters.
Regards,
Shell Technical"


Interesting. Any idea how old that info is? I personally can't see them advertising it for use in gas engines if that were still the case today, especially without putting some sort of warning/advice about cars/vehicles with cats.

It just seems odd to me.


That is a 2014 E-mail from Shell Technical to a car forum (Fiero) member. That restriction does not apply to the new Rotella T6 Multi-Vehicle 5W30. With that exception, Rotella oils no longer have an API gas rating, which means that they are intended for use in diesel vehicles only.


But it shows the API label in those pics Snagglefoot posted?

Also, seeing as it is from 2014, like Garak stated, I don't think it still applies, which makes sense because I honestly can't see Shell, or anyone else for that matter, saying it is for gasoline engines if that were not the case?

Maybe time to call or email and see what the latest is?
 
Originally Posted By: irv
Also, seeing as it is from 2014, like Garak stated, I don't think it still applies, which makes sense because I honestly can't see Shell, or anyone else for that matter, saying it is for gasoline engines if that were not the case?

It's a bunch of nervous nellyism, both from their customer service people, and the people who take it as gospel. Shell sent me the product with full knowledge I'd use it in a gasoline engine, with it being gasoline rated. As for the 5w-40, and formulators and chemists here have agreed, if the 5w-40 was suitable a few months ago, it's still suitable now. It didn't magically become a marine lube or a two stroke diesel lube.

Shell took the position to not go for SN, not because the lubricant is suddenly unacceptable for gasoline engines, but because API rules affected ILSAC grades, and Shell likely took a certain formulation strategy, and dropping the gasoline specification might have been the path of least resistance. 0w-40 is a Canadian market product only, so might be formulated altogether different, or reformulated before CK-4. 5w30 is an E6 product so it's another matter altogether different again.

I had debated ages ago with Gena Fishbeck from Pennzoil about this issue. Pennzoil was saying not to use 5w-40 Rotella in a gasser, even though it had SM, and people were using it in cars that called for 5w-40 in SM. Saying that it's unsuitable when it exactly meets the requirements is silly, but Pennzoil did have (and does have) competing 5w-40 PCMOs, so she had a reason to promote the product in her umbrella.

Even within the Shell family, there are competing interests, and we have to keep that in mind.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: turnbowm
The Shell Rotella Team has been advising against the use of Rotella T6 in gas cars with catalytic converters for many years. Rotella T6 doesn't even have an API gas rating anymore.

I'm running a T6 with an SN rating. Additionally, if something was suitable for a car last October, it didn't become magically unsuitable this summer. T6 0w-40 is also a Canadian product with a gasoline rating.

It seems to be there's only one T6 product that's not gasoline rated, and given that it's E7, E9, I wouldn't worry in the least.


^ This. To summarize. T6 5W30. SN
T6 0W40. SN (Canadian product)
T6 5W40. Not SN.
 
My thought is that Shell is leary about giving it a S rating. I think I am going to use it as my car doesn't burn oil so in theory I should be fine with my cat. I know one thing whenever I change in my 99 cummins it sure smells like an oil refinery after I change oil from the blow by LOL.
 
1.) You gotta go back to why this lube was developed in the first place - multi-engine fleet operators. Truck fleets with both and only wanting one lube in the shop. A lot of these trucks had no, or simple, smog systems.

2.) Then the street guys and go-fast boys found out the fleet oils were good enough for a gazillion miles in gas engines and it took off from there.

I have run non-gas rated fleet oils in gas cars with full CAT systems in Calif with SMOG checks required for decades. The refiners can't say to use these oils because the State would sue them. But, unless your car is consuming oil at over a qt per say 1,500 miles, there is no danger. I have personally gone well over 250,000 miles on multiple CAT equipped vehicles with fleet oils with zero problems.

It's all about the oil consumption. If low, there is no way to "Kill a CAT" ... If high, you have other stuff to be concerned about, and your CAT is dying anyway ...
 
^ The Rotella T6 synthetics have had quite a following (Subie crowd, in particular). However, the fact that T6 documents don't even mention gas vehicles anymore and T6 5W40 no longer having an API rating is telling. Perhaps meeting the demands of modern gas engines (DGI/TGDI) would result in unacceptable compromises in the HDEO diesel sector. Of course we still have Rotella "Lite" (T6 Multi-Vehicle 5W30) for mixed fleet applications.
 
Originally Posted By: turnbowm
^ The Rotella T6 synthetics have had quite a following (Subie crowd, in particular). However, the fact that T6 documents don't even mention gas vehicles anymore and T6 5W40 no longer having an API rating is telling. Perhaps meeting the demands of modern gas engines (DGI/TGDI) would result in unacceptable compromises in the HDEO diesel sector. Of course we still have Rotella "Lite" (T6 Multi-Vehicle 5W30) for mixed fleet applications.


But yet every ad/PDF I read about it talks about meeting or exceeding API standards?
21.gif

Like I previously mentioned, if it were not the case then there is no way Shell or anyone else would be advertising it as safe in gasoline engines.

PRODUCT DESCRIPTION
Shell ROTELLA® T6 SAE 0W-40 features an advanced Shell
exclusive “Low “SAPS”* additive technology in a synthetic
base oil, and is designed to provide highly responsive
performance in extreme low temperature climates. Shell
ROTELLA® T6 SAE 0W-40 meets the API CJ-4/SN, Volvo
VDS-3, and Mack EO-N, and Caterpillar ECF-3, ECF-2 and
ECF-1A specifications. It is suitable for modern vehicles that
have 2010 emissions compliant engines and after treatment
systems, which require CJ-4 engine oil.

Shell ROTELLA® T6 5W-40 Full Synthetic Heavy Duty Engine
Oil with Triple Protection Plus™ technology delivers all the
protection you’ve come to expect from Shell ROTELLA®
and then some as it not only meets but exceeds API CK-4
performance standards.
https://rotella.shell.com/products/full-...43/t6-5w-40.pdf
https://rotella.shell.com/products/full-...6-sae-0w-40.pdf
The full portfolio of new products that meet API CK-4 and FA-4 performance standards are now on the market. Shell ROTELLA® T Triple Protection that customers have known and trusted is now Shell ROTELLA® T4 Triple Protection®, providing even stronger protection for your engine. And we’re pleased to announce two new products in our portfolio, Shell ROTELLA®T5 Ultra 10w30, which meets API FA-4 performance standards, and Shell ROTELLA® T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w30, which meets both API CK-4 for diesel engines as well as API SN performance standards for gasoline engines. Learn more about Shell Rotella.

Shell ROTELLA® will continue to work hard to improve our portfolio of products and will always be the engine oil that works as hard as you.
https://www.shell.ca/en_ca/business-cust...ll-rotella.html

I am far from an expert but those right there tell me it does meet the API rating.
 
Originally Posted By: irv
Originally Posted By: turnbowm
^ The Rotella T6 synthetics have had quite a following (Subie crowd, in particular). However, the fact that T6 documents don't even mention gas vehicles anymore and T6 5W40 no longer having an API rating is telling. Perhaps meeting the demands of modern gas engines (DGI/TGDI) would result in unacceptable compromises in the HDEO diesel sector. Of course we still have Rotella "Lite" (T6 Multi-Vehicle 5W30) for mixed fleet applications.


But yet every ad/PDF I read about it talks about meeting or exceeding API standards?
21.gif

Like I previously mentioned, if it were not the case then there is no way Shell or anyone else would be advertising it as safe in gasoline engines...

Not one word about gas vehicles in the T6 5W40 or 0W40 product data sheets.
 
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
1.) You gotta go back to why this lube was developed in the first place - multi-engine fleet operators. Truck fleets with both and only wanting one lube in the shop. A lot of these trucks had no, or simple, smog systems.

2.) Then the street guys and go-fast boys found out the fleet oils were good enough for a gazillion miles in gas engines and it took off from there.

I have run non-gas rated fleet oils in gas cars with full CAT systems in Calif with SMOG checks required for decades. The refiners can't say to use these oils because the State would sue them. But, unless your car is consuming oil at over a qt per say 1,500 miles, there is no danger. I have personally gone well over 250,000 miles on multiple CAT equipped vehicles with fleet oils with zero problems.

It's all about the oil consumption. If low, there is no way to "Kill a CAT" ... If high, you have other stuff to be concerned about, and your CAT is dying anyway ...


Hey Broc, good post. So are you saying you are using CJ-4 and CK-4 oils with no SN ratings and are still passing California emmisions tests?
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
SN is the approval rating for gasoline engines. If it’s rated SN it is OK for gasoline engines.

That's true as long as the gas vehicle does not have a catalytic converter. Below is an excerpt from Wikipedia...

Shell Rotella T is a line of heavy duty engine lubrication products produced by Royal Dutch Shell. The line includes engine oils, gear oils and coolants. The oil carries both the American Petroleum Institute (API) diesel "C" rating as well as the API gasoline engine "S" rating. Ratings differ based on the oil. Rotella oils like T3 15w40 meets both the API CJ-4 and SM specifications, and may be used in both gasoline and diesel engines. However, it is formulated specifically for vehicles without catalytic converters, containing phosphorus levels beyond the 600-800ppm range.[1] Therefore, Rotella is not recommended for gasoline vehicles with catalytic converters due to the higher risk of damaging these emission controls.[2] Newer formulations of Rotella T6 however are API SM rated as safe for pre-2011 gasoline vehicles.

It should be noted that the new Rotella T6 Multi-Vehicle 5W30 does not have that restriction.
 
Originally Posted By: turnbowm
Snagglefoot said:
SN is the approval rating for gasoline engines. If it’s rated SN it is OK for gasoline engines.

That's true as long as the gas vehicle does not have a catalytic converter. Below is an excerpt from Wikipedia...

Shell Rotella T is a line of heavy duty engine lubrication products produced by Royal Dutch Shell. The line includes engine oils, gear oils and coolants. The oil carries both the American Petroleum Institute (API) diesel "C" rating as well as the API gasoline engine "S" rating. Ratings differ based on the oil. Rotella oils like T3 15w40 meets both the API CJ-4 and SM specifications, and may be used in both gasoline and diesel engines. However, it is formulated specifically for vehicles without catalytic converters, containing phosphorus levels beyond the 600-800ppm range.[1] Therefore, Rotella is not recommended for gasoline vehicles with catalytic converters due to the higher risk of damaging these emission controls.[2] Newer formulations of Rotella T6 however are API SM rated as safe for pre-2011 gasoline vehicles.

It should be noted that the new Rotella T6 Multi-Vehicle 5W30 does not have that restriction.
[/quote

We are referring to T6. It boils down to SN. If it’s SN it’s OK for Catalytic convertors. That Wiki areticle is a bit old and talks about SM.

Shell Rotella T6 5w30 and T6 0w40 are both SN and good for gasoline engines with Catalytic converters.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
It should also be mentioned, for those that don't know about Wiki, anyone can basically add anything they want.
If the editors don't know or understand any different than what is being said/posted, it will likely stay, to which many people will think, because it is written there it is likely true.

"Can you put anything on Wikipedia?
Anyone with Internet access can write and make changes to Wikipedia articles, except in limited cases where editing is restricted to prevent disruption or vandalism. Users can contribute anonymously, under a pseudonym, or, if they choose to, with their real identity.
 
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
1.) You gotta go back to why this lube was developed in the first place - multi-engine fleet operators. Truck fleets with both and only wanting one lube in the shop. A lot of these trucks had no, or simple, smog systems.

2.) Then the street guys and go-fast boys found out the fleet oils were good enough for a gazillion miles in gas engines and it took off from there.

I have run non-gas rated fleet oils in gas cars with full CAT systems in Calif with SMOG checks required for decades. The refiners can't say to use these oils because the State would sue them. But, unless your car is consuming oil at over a qt per say 1,500 miles, there is no danger. I have personally gone well over 250,000 miles on multiple CAT equipped vehicles with fleet oils with zero problems.

It's all about the oil consumption. If low, there is no way to "Kill a CAT" ... If high, you have other stuff to be concerned about, and your CAT is dying anyway ...


Hey Broc, good post. So are you saying you are using CJ-4 and CK-4 oils with no SN ratings and are still passing California emmisions tests?


We'll know in a few weeks. The big Bronco (302) with 225K on the clock is headed for the SMOG shop so I can re-up the registration. I have a CEL on that will have to be cured first, but I expect it to pass just fine. It's on Delvac 15w40 and will stay that way for at least two years until next change.

I'd run T6, but it's too thin on cold start for that engine and those miles. Rattles too much until a few minutes into the go ... Quiet on Delvac or Delo dino oil. But, it's had a steady diet of HDEO since about 140K, and that is many SMOG tests ago. Original CAT still in place
smile.gif
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: irv
It should also be mentioned, for those that don't know about Wiki, anyone can basically add anything they want.

This. API says SN is for gas engines, period. Now, one may not have a vehicle that calls specifically for an SN 5w-40, but they can and do exist, and worrying about dual rating API style is silly. A3/B4 is dual rated, too.

As I've mentioned many times, when T6 5w-40 was gasoline rated and then switched to T6 CK-4 without SN, it didn't somehow magically become poison to gasoline engines. If it was suitable for application X before, it still is.

Some of these people have been smoking the same stuff that the Ford Powerstroke memo writers have been.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

J
2010 Outback
Replies
10
Views
512
GSCJR
P
What oil for 2011 Camry, 200 K ?
2 3
Replies
47
Views
1K
cheesepuffs2
S
2017 Nissan Rogue 2.5 - 5W-30?
2
Replies
36
Views
2K
Wireman1987
D.R.S
2013 Volkswagen Passat 2.5- What oil and weight Valvoline
2
Replies
22
Views
3K
D.R.S
53' Stude
Thinking of HPL 10w-30 NO VII for Dakota
2 3
Replies
57
Views
1K
Plumb Bob
Back
Top Bottom