Best car, Toyota. Best oil, Amsoil. Best OCI 5k miles. All the best money can buy. Yes I am fanatical. No worry about UOA. No anxiety over stretching out an OCI. No warranty worry. I say money well spent.....
Synthetics - What's The Point Anymore?
- Thread starter Mr_Incredible
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if I was driving 30k/year 90% highway miles, heck ya I would use group 4 syn with yearly UOAs to back it up. but you have to look at your own driving conditions and not generalize with 3k/oci. 3k miles for some people takes six months. some it takes 4 weeks! Some have already switched back to dino because they are not seeing any benefit to their driving situation.
Oil prices including group 3 are headed down IMO after a year of rapid increases. I have to pay .79 now for Shell and Chevron cases of dino, .99 for GTX in smaller amounts. With those prices at west coast CSK and 2 or three OCI of $1 - $2 PP or Valvoline syn or Quaker state syn available, each year, I can't make a case for spending other oils.
1. Turbos, like my summer car.
2. On a day like today where leaving work it was 5 degrees F (-15 C) and the 5w20 dino in my winter car felt like concrete on startup.
Still I get the general point. For 90% of applications any SM 5w30 dino with 5K oil changes is probably more than fine.
I was never in the "offended because Castrol called Group III a Synthetic" camp, although certainly wasn't willing to pay $7 a litre for it. But now the Mobil shenanigans and quality of $2 GroupII/GroupIII oils make arguing the semantics kinda silly.
2. On a day like today where leaving work it was 5 degrees F (-15 C) and the 5w20 dino in my winter car felt like concrete on startup.
Still I get the general point. For 90% of applications any SM 5w30 dino with 5K oil changes is probably more than fine.
I was never in the "offended because Castrol called Group III a Synthetic" camp, although certainly wasn't willing to pay $7 a litre for it. But now the Mobil shenanigans and quality of $2 GroupII/GroupIII oils make arguing the semantics kinda silly.
Mr Incredible, I think you hit the nail on the head!
True synthetics are harder find.
Thankfully we still have true synthetics from Redline and Amsoil!
I am starting to rethink what I should buy.
Some very good hydrocracked 'Conventional oils' are much improved and cost from $0.59 /qt on sale, to $2.40 / qt.
Good name brand Group III synthetic oils like Pennzoil Platinum are $4.00 / qt.
Pennzoil Platinum was incredibly on sale for $0.99 /quart....so I stocked up like crazy.
'Mystery synthetic' oils like Mobil 1, Castrol Syntec and other brands are possibly Group IV / V and very good...or they may be Group III with some Group IV or Group V. So, they may be the same , or nearly the same, as Pennzoil Platinum for $0.99 /qt. But the ' price is $5.00 to $6.22 for 'Mystery Synthetic' oils.
So what should I do?
Pennzoil Platinum at $0.99/qt is a no brainer for many vehicles.
'Conventional' oils on sale are fine, but not if one can stock up on Pennzoil Platinum on sale.
Mobil 1 and Castrol Syntec don't make sense to me any more, unless I find a blowout sale.
Redline and Amsoil make lots of sense to me, since they have some very good products for hard driving or extended intervals, and are true Group IV or Group V synthetics.
So I added lots of Pennzoil Platinum to my stash of Castrol GC, and I will research more oils and keep an open mind.
When I see a known good oil on sale I'll stock up on it.
True synthetics are harder find.
Thankfully we still have true synthetics from Redline and Amsoil!
I am starting to rethink what I should buy.
Some very good hydrocracked 'Conventional oils' are much improved and cost from $0.59 /qt on sale, to $2.40 / qt.
Good name brand Group III synthetic oils like Pennzoil Platinum are $4.00 / qt.
Pennzoil Platinum was incredibly on sale for $0.99 /quart....so I stocked up like crazy.
'Mystery synthetic' oils like Mobil 1, Castrol Syntec and other brands are possibly Group IV / V and very good...or they may be Group III with some Group IV or Group V. So, they may be the same , or nearly the same, as Pennzoil Platinum for $0.99 /qt. But the ' price is $5.00 to $6.22 for 'Mystery Synthetic' oils.
So what should I do?
Pennzoil Platinum at $0.99/qt is a no brainer for many vehicles.
'Conventional' oils on sale are fine, but not if one can stock up on Pennzoil Platinum on sale.
Mobil 1 and Castrol Syntec don't make sense to me any more, unless I find a blowout sale.
Redline and Amsoil make lots of sense to me, since they have some very good products for hard driving or extended intervals, and are true Group IV or Group V synthetics.
So I added lots of Pennzoil Platinum to my stash of Castrol GC, and I will research more oils and keep an open mind.
When I see a known good oil on sale I'll stock up on it.
Walmart synth.$13.00 bucks for 5 qts.pure-one filter $5.00,I'll spend $18.00 for a oil change.Dino-$2.00 a qt.I'd save $3.00 a oil change,4 times a year.$12.00 a year
savings with Dino isn't worth it to me.
savings with Dino isn't worth it to me.
Mettech, I do understand. That's easy for you to say, but does it really fly?
I've been a fan since I read that first article on M1 in the Popular Mechanics in study hall in 1976. At the time, synthetics were not new but they were exotic and non-standard.
I didn't have much of a mechanical or lubrication frame of reference at the time, and really didn't develop one until much later when I started buying new cars and driving long distances. I must confess, I abused a number of cars by not understanding oil and lubes in my early years. I look back in shame, but unless our Dad or an important mechanic person taught us the ropes, at that age it's not unusual. I know I'm in good company.
When I got my first expensive new truck I started using M1. I changed oil at 4 to 5k mile intervals. At 66k (1990) the truck went into the shop for a cracked block due to a head gasket failure. The mechanic that had opened it up was simply AMAZED that the cylinders were as nice looking as they were. "I can still see the crosshatching!" he exclaimed. He'd been inside a lot of motors and he was impressed with what he saw. I was stoked on synthetic oils.
Fast forward to 1999. Still stoked. Wife #3 comes aboard. She's stoked about Amsoil. I tried to love it, but it didn't fit easily into my routine. It does for some, but not for me. I still used M1 for the truck and Amsoil for her car.
Now it's 2004. My regular fill is M1 5w30. I get Camaro #1. 92 RS. 305 TBI. Fairly clean. Nice interior. I do my best to clean it up and make it the best it can be. M1 goes in. 26 MPG. Headers, exhaust, larger TB. Not too bad.
Then comes Camaro #2. 98 Z28. LS1. WOW! My first real hotrod. Finally. I still think I'm doing good with M1 5w30. It's an awsome car and I want the best for it. I find LS1.COM and Patman and his oil tales come into my life. Oil becomes important again. I must know more.
I have piston slap on startup and, after a round of research I start using M1 5w-40 Truck & SUV. I works good. I think I'm getting some really good stuff. I'm happy. Then M1 stops making Truck & SUV 5w-40. I eventually run out. I must find another good oil. I see that Synthetic doesn't always mean the same thing now. Hmmm.
I find BITOG. And that's what started my questioning of the old paradigms. I see that oil has made great strides in the past decade. I'm amazed. I see UOA for 4-5-6k miles that are amazing. Sure, I know that synthetics are good for heat, cold, turbos, and extended intervals. We ALL know that much. No-brainer.
But realistically, with GpIII oils as cheap as they are, and lesser oils being as good as they are now, it's getting harder to justify $6 and up per quart.
Yeah, I've got the next two oil changes of GC for the Camaro in the rack and waiting. I found a place to buy it and we'll see how it works in my LS1 this year. We can only aspire to such lubrication excellence as Patman reaches with every interval, but maybe I can, too.
But what's it worth? I happened to get my GC on the mail-in rebate. I haven't gotten anything back yet, and $36 for six bottles when PP is nearly as awesome....
I am in no way trying to be an oil snob. I find them tedious and tiresome. Just wondering if anyone else is questioning the long-held beliefs as am I.
I've been a fan since I read that first article on M1 in the Popular Mechanics in study hall in 1976. At the time, synthetics were not new but they were exotic and non-standard.
I didn't have much of a mechanical or lubrication frame of reference at the time, and really didn't develop one until much later when I started buying new cars and driving long distances. I must confess, I abused a number of cars by not understanding oil and lubes in my early years. I look back in shame, but unless our Dad or an important mechanic person taught us the ropes, at that age it's not unusual. I know I'm in good company.
When I got my first expensive new truck I started using M1. I changed oil at 4 to 5k mile intervals. At 66k (1990) the truck went into the shop for a cracked block due to a head gasket failure. The mechanic that had opened it up was simply AMAZED that the cylinders were as nice looking as they were. "I can still see the crosshatching!" he exclaimed. He'd been inside a lot of motors and he was impressed with what he saw. I was stoked on synthetic oils.
Fast forward to 1999. Still stoked. Wife #3 comes aboard. She's stoked about Amsoil. I tried to love it, but it didn't fit easily into my routine. It does for some, but not for me. I still used M1 for the truck and Amsoil for her car.
Now it's 2004. My regular fill is M1 5w30. I get Camaro #1. 92 RS. 305 TBI. Fairly clean. Nice interior. I do my best to clean it up and make it the best it can be. M1 goes in. 26 MPG. Headers, exhaust, larger TB. Not too bad.
Then comes Camaro #2. 98 Z28. LS1. WOW! My first real hotrod. Finally. I still think I'm doing good with M1 5w30. It's an awsome car and I want the best for it. I find LS1.COM and Patman and his oil tales come into my life. Oil becomes important again. I must know more.
I have piston slap on startup and, after a round of research I start using M1 5w-40 Truck & SUV. I works good. I think I'm getting some really good stuff. I'm happy. Then M1 stops making Truck & SUV 5w-40. I eventually run out. I must find another good oil. I see that Synthetic doesn't always mean the same thing now. Hmmm.
I find BITOG. And that's what started my questioning of the old paradigms. I see that oil has made great strides in the past decade. I'm amazed. I see UOA for 4-5-6k miles that are amazing. Sure, I know that synthetics are good for heat, cold, turbos, and extended intervals. We ALL know that much. No-brainer.
But realistically, with GpIII oils as cheap as they are, and lesser oils being as good as they are now, it's getting harder to justify $6 and up per quart.
Yeah, I've got the next two oil changes of GC for the Camaro in the rack and waiting. I found a place to buy it and we'll see how it works in my LS1 this year. We can only aspire to such lubrication excellence as Patman reaches with every interval, but maybe I can, too.
But what's it worth? I happened to get my GC on the mail-in rebate. I haven't gotten anything back yet, and $36 for six bottles when PP is nearly as awesome....
I am in no way trying to be an oil snob. I find them tedious and tiresome. Just wondering if anyone else is questioning the long-held beliefs as am I.
Your line of thinking is logical.
LOL Bryan - when you said that a picture of Tuvok on Star Trek Voyager poped up in my head... That was great.
Synthetics vs Dino oil! I played with the thought for a long time and I've done a ton of research into the subject. For me - I choose synthetics because it is the better product - it can do longer ocis and from what I understand - can keep your engine cleaner. I also drive 220 miles a day so doing a 3,000 oci is a perfect field for synthetic oil.
Here are my personal observations: My engine starts smoother on synthetic oil than it does on conventional. My engine idles smoother (using hand on engine/ear next to engine approach - I know, not scientific) with synthetics. Also, I noticed my engine doesn't have the smell of burning oil when I use synthetics vs dino oil when I take off from a green light.
Besides... $30 for a 10,000 mile oci isn't going to break the bank - thats about the cost of a tank of gas. A $7 for a 3,000 mile oci isn't that much cheaper. With the facts above (smoothness, smell, idling) - I'll choose synthetics.
I choose Amsoil because #1 - my oil + filter delivered to my door (no driving to a store). #2 - they have an excellent warranty on their product. #3 - Pablo is a site sponsor and a great help when I have questions.
I could get by with normal oil with a good oci - but my car is a hobby of mine (I plan to keep it as long as possible) so I put more money and products into it.
Synthetics vs Dino oil! I played with the thought for a long time and I've done a ton of research into the subject. For me - I choose synthetics because it is the better product - it can do longer ocis and from what I understand - can keep your engine cleaner. I also drive 220 miles a day so doing a 3,000 oci is a perfect field for synthetic oil.
Here are my personal observations: My engine starts smoother on synthetic oil than it does on conventional. My engine idles smoother (using hand on engine/ear next to engine approach - I know, not scientific) with synthetics. Also, I noticed my engine doesn't have the smell of burning oil when I use synthetics vs dino oil when I take off from a green light.
Besides... $30 for a 10,000 mile oci isn't going to break the bank - thats about the cost of a tank of gas. A $7 for a 3,000 mile oci isn't that much cheaper. With the facts above (smoothness, smell, idling) - I'll choose synthetics.
I choose Amsoil because #1 - my oil + filter delivered to my door (no driving to a store). #2 - they have an excellent warranty on their product. #3 - Pablo is a site sponsor and a great help when I have questions.
I could get by with normal oil with a good oci - but my car is a hobby of mine (I plan to keep it as long as possible) so I put more money and products into it.
I guess it is simple for me. I use synthetics because my last two car engines wore out before the body's did on dino oil. I also like synthetics because I can go 15,000 miles on one vehicle and 10,000 on the other so it ends up costing about the same as dino and less work laying on the ground underneath the things...
All I can say is that a lot of people on this board think that UOA's are a great indicator of engine wear. Where is the proof? Synthetics win in engine tear downs.This idea that dino oils work as well as the $$$ synthetics does not jive with my first hand experience.The counter argument to my experience is that my experience is a decade old.
At time I do get star trek and Yoda language infiltrating my personal sentence structures..
On oils.
I like to change my oil but that only happens every 6-9 months with 5k mile OCI's. I have built up confidence in using conventional oils to do this. Now I will not rule out using synthetics such as Amsoil or a very reputable oil such as Schaeffer's.
Conventional oils are definitely getting the job done in my two Toyota 1GR FE's.
What would drive me to change to synthetic? If my free time becomes scarce and I can benefit from doing 1 oil change a year or longer in my wife's and my vehicles.
The only issue with that is I am considering a PELA sump extractor and my oil filters are as easy to change as checking the oil is so 5k mile changes are pretty quick and convenient. Plus I could use the 30 buck for a syn oil change for another tank of gas.
I ran synthetics before and other than long drain intervals that I needed for cross country travel without worry I saw no benefit in the way the vehicle ran.
The only vehicle I have had that required synthetic ran and drove very nicely but I attribute that to German engineering.
On oils.
I like to change my oil but that only happens every 6-9 months with 5k mile OCI's. I have built up confidence in using conventional oils to do this. Now I will not rule out using synthetics such as Amsoil or a very reputable oil such as Schaeffer's.
Conventional oils are definitely getting the job done in my two Toyota 1GR FE's.
What would drive me to change to synthetic? If my free time becomes scarce and I can benefit from doing 1 oil change a year or longer in my wife's and my vehicles.
The only issue with that is I am considering a PELA sump extractor and my oil filters are as easy to change as checking the oil is so 5k mile changes are pretty quick and convenient. Plus I could use the 30 buck for a syn oil change for another tank of gas.
I ran synthetics before and other than long drain intervals that I needed for cross country travel without worry I saw no benefit in the way the vehicle ran.
The only vehicle I have had that required synthetic ran and drove very nicely but I attribute that to German engineering.
When you leave out of the picture one of the most important points (long oci's) it is a flawed question.
Still the best by a margin, and cheaper if you look at the totality of the picture.
I like the little guy fights off the big guy and survives the fight and gains respect story too. (Little guys=Amsoil, Redline,Neo, a few others vs. Big guy....Corporate oil company's.
Still the best by a margin, and cheaper if you look at the totality of the picture.
I like the little guy fights off the big guy and survives the fight and gains respect story too. (Little guys=Amsoil, Redline,Neo, a few others vs. Big guy....Corporate oil company's.
Yea, and to say that one can't aford Amsoil oil changed at short intervals but can afford a vehicle, maintenance, license/registration, car insurance and probably many extra needless miles of using gas to the tune of $2000 gasoline bill/year is more than entertaioning. Its downright silly.
Mobil still makes and sells Mobil 1 5W-40. It is now named "Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40". I've seen it on the store shelves at Mills Fleet Farm here in MN. I believe others have recently spotted it at their local AutoZone.
Andy, I haven't seen it here yet, though I've looked.
But since Mobil has jumped the shark and started using non-PAO in their oils, I revert to the original question.
But since Mobil has jumped the shark and started using non-PAO in their oils, I revert to the original question.
Some folks believe that a few grades of Mobil 1 are still PAO-based. I think M1 0W-40 and M1 5W-40 have been mentioned. But again, no one outside of Mobil really knows the full truth.
I've heard several reports in the last week or so that M1 5w40 is now showing up on the shelves at Walmart.
It took so long that I stocked up from NAPA and then got a great deal on 25 gallons of Delvac 1 on eBay. So I am good for about 250k miles. And I don't need to go to Walmart. But it's good to know that they have it.
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