So I hear people on here say that synthetic might clean out the crud exposing some leaks, then others say that todays dino's do a great job cleaning and you dont need synthetic. My question is, what makes synthetic a better cleaner than dino? In fact, when I look at many VOA's I see a weaker add pack on paper, so what gives? Is it the basestock that has the cleaning ability?
Synthetic vs Dino cleaning abilities
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I an not aware of any straight dino oil on the market meeting current specs plus it is about 25% additives today I have read on the internet.
What you see in a voa isn't even half the story because a typical voa doesn't see everything.
Yes basestocks are important in cleaning as are the detergent and dispersant additives in the oil.
The whole package is what does the work and not one single component.
Syn oils may have weaker additive packages because due to the base oils inherent properties less is required to have a desired effect.
Or the syn version gets better add which then require less,tri-nuclear moly comes to mind.
Yes basestocks are important in cleaning as are the detergent and dispersant additives in the oil.
The whole package is what does the work and not one single component.
Syn oils may have weaker additive packages because due to the base oils inherent properties less is required to have a desired effect.
Or the syn version gets better add which then require less,tri-nuclear moly comes to mind.
Alot of time synthetic oils have higher levels of detergents. Some have base stocks that clean on their own, and some have stuff we cant see on a $20 voa that helps clean.
But today it seems like the lines are getting blurred with these new SN oils. Oils just keep getting better and better.
But today it seems like the lines are getting blurred with these new SN oils. Oils just keep getting better and better.
I have read here at BITOG (I forget what post/posts) that todays SN conventional oils have "some" synthetic oil in them.
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
I have read here at BITOG (I forget what post/posts) that todays SN conventional oils have "some" synthetic oil in them.
Yes, I have read that too. Im not sure if its speculation or truth, and if it is truth I wonder how much synthetic it has.
I have read here at BITOG (I forget what post/posts) that todays SN conventional oils have "some" synthetic oil in them.
Yes, I have read that too. Im not sure if its speculation or truth, and if it is truth I wonder how much synthetic it has.
What is SN oil?
There's a lot of talk and very few pictures and proof of synthetic oil's ability to clean. I'd love to see some actual testing of synthetic oil's ability to clean varnish and sludge in several engines from different manufacturers. I'd also like to see the different oil companies synthetic oil's tested to see which brand offers the best cleaning oil. Not opinions based on spec sheets, or a hunch, or marketing hype, we already have plenty of that.
I have synthetic oil for the first time in the sump of my 00 Century for 2,500 miles, and the valve train looks exactly the same as it did before I used synthetic oil. It still has moderate varnish deposits. They are an improvement from when I got the car due to the Kreen treatment done about 10K miles ago, with no additional cleaning done by the oil. The oil in use now is Havoline 5W30 synthetic.
I have synthetic oil for the first time in the sump of my 00 Century for 2,500 miles, and the valve train looks exactly the same as it did before I used synthetic oil. It still has moderate varnish deposits. They are an improvement from when I got the car due to the Kreen treatment done about 10K miles ago, with no additional cleaning done by the oil. The oil in use now is Havoline 5W30 synthetic.
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
I an not aware of any straight dino oil on the market meeting current specs plus it is about 25% additives today I have read on the internet.
Huh?
PYB has an SN line up as do all the majors. I for one don't believe that the SN spec requires a synthetic basestock to achieve the spec. If so the oil companies would advertise it without question.
The word synthetic on oil is a selling feature. No way would an oil company not capitalize on being able to claim synthetic content.
I'm just not buying it. If SN needed synthetic to achieve the spec every oil company on earth would have it plastered on every bottle and jug they sell.
Doesn't dexos require some syn content,and isn't it advertised on the bottle?
I an not aware of any straight dino oil on the market meeting current specs plus it is about 25% additives today I have read on the internet.
Huh?
PYB has an SN line up as do all the majors. I for one don't believe that the SN spec requires a synthetic basestock to achieve the spec. If so the oil companies would advertise it without question.
The word synthetic on oil is a selling feature. No way would an oil company not capitalize on being able to claim synthetic content.
I'm just not buying it. If SN needed synthetic to achieve the spec every oil company on earth would have it plastered on every bottle and jug they sell.
Doesn't dexos require some syn content,and isn't it advertised on the bottle?
Originally Posted By: gregk24
Originally Posted By: buffalobob
What is SN oil?
Its the latest API certification.
http://www.api.org/certifications/engineoil/categories/upload/motor_oil_guide_2010_120210.pdf
Here is a table of current/past standards.
Originally Posted By: buffalobob
What is SN oil?
Its the latest API certification.
http://www.api.org/certifications/engineoil/categories/upload/motor_oil_guide_2010_120210.pdf
Here is a table of current/past standards.
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
I an not aware of any straight dino oil on the market meeting current specs plus it is about 25% additives today I have read on the internet.
Huh?
PYB has an SN line up as do all the majors. I for one don't believe that the SN spec requires a synthetic basestock to achieve the spec. If so the oil companies would advertise it without question.
The word synthetic on oil is a selling feature. No way would an oil company not capitalize on being able to claim synthetic content.
I'm just not buying it. If SN needed synthetic to achieve the spec every oil company on earth would have it plastered on every bottle and jug they sell.
Doesn't dexos require some syn content,and isn't it advertised on the bottle?
I think he may have worded his question wrong. Maybe he meant "group II dino that meets current spec" ... ? AFAIK, aren't most dino's, if not all of them, now group II+?
Or we are reading it wrong, and should take it literally as "straight dino" as in "only conventional, not mixed at all" ...
Either way, I'm pretty sure most dino's are II+ and probably have a little synthetic in the mix to meet current SN spec.
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
I an not aware of any straight dino oil on the market meeting current specs plus it is about 25% additives today I have read on the internet.
Huh?
PYB has an SN line up as do all the majors. I for one don't believe that the SN spec requires a synthetic basestock to achieve the spec. If so the oil companies would advertise it without question.
The word synthetic on oil is a selling feature. No way would an oil company not capitalize on being able to claim synthetic content.
I'm just not buying it. If SN needed synthetic to achieve the spec every oil company on earth would have it plastered on every bottle and jug they sell.
Doesn't dexos require some syn content,and isn't it advertised on the bottle?
I think he may have worded his question wrong. Maybe he meant "group II dino that meets current spec" ... ? AFAIK, aren't most dino's, if not all of them, now group II+?
Or we are reading it wrong, and should take it literally as "straight dino" as in "only conventional, not mixed at all" ...
Either way, I'm pretty sure most dino's are II+ and probably have a little synthetic in the mix to meet current SN spec.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
There's a lot of talk and very few pictures and proof of synthetic oil's ability to clean. I'd love to see some actual testing of synthetic oil's ability to clean varnish and sludge in several engines from different manufacturers. I'd also like to see the different oil companies synthetic oil's tested to see which brand offers the best cleaning oil. Not opinions based on spec sheets, or a hunch, or marketing hype, we already have plenty of that.
I have synthetic oil for the first time in the sump of my 00 Century for 2,500 miles, and the valve train looks exactly the same as it did before I used synthetic oil. It still has moderate varnish deposits. They are an improvement from when I got the car due to the Kreen treatment done about 10K miles ago, with no additional cleaning done by the oil. The oil in use now is Havoline 5W30 synthetic.
I think theres few pics of syn only because when people have a dirty engine they usually run a syn with an additive (if they use a syn at all) to do all they can to get it cleaned up. The only thread I can find where only syn was used to clean is one made by overkill where he used redline and the results were lacking.
It seems most people want to use all tools available to solve a problem instead of using a scientific method of experimentation.
I would also like to see some threads with pics where synthetic cleaned a dirty engine.
There's a lot of talk and very few pictures and proof of synthetic oil's ability to clean. I'd love to see some actual testing of synthetic oil's ability to clean varnish and sludge in several engines from different manufacturers. I'd also like to see the different oil companies synthetic oil's tested to see which brand offers the best cleaning oil. Not opinions based on spec sheets, or a hunch, or marketing hype, we already have plenty of that.
I have synthetic oil for the first time in the sump of my 00 Century for 2,500 miles, and the valve train looks exactly the same as it did before I used synthetic oil. It still has moderate varnish deposits. They are an improvement from when I got the car due to the Kreen treatment done about 10K miles ago, with no additional cleaning done by the oil. The oil in use now is Havoline 5W30 synthetic.
I think theres few pics of syn only because when people have a dirty engine they usually run a syn with an additive (if they use a syn at all) to do all they can to get it cleaned up. The only thread I can find where only syn was used to clean is one made by overkill where he used redline and the results were lacking.
It seems most people want to use all tools available to solve a problem instead of using a scientific method of experimentation.
I would also like to see some threads with pics where synthetic cleaned a dirty engine.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
There's a lot of talk and very few pictures and proof of synthetic oil's ability to clean. I'd love to see some actual testing of synthetic oil's ability to clean varnish and sludge in several engines from different manufacturers.
Well in two years of using synthetic (oldest stuff in my oil stash first) in my car, I will post the pix to see if it did get rid of the varnish after using Valvoline dino oil
There's a lot of talk and very few pictures and proof of synthetic oil's ability to clean. I'd love to see some actual testing of synthetic oil's ability to clean varnish and sludge in several engines from different manufacturers.
Well in two years of using synthetic (oldest stuff in my oil stash first) in my car, I will post the pix to see if it did get rid of the varnish after using Valvoline dino oil
even most synthetics dont have synthetic like we used to know it
Originally Posted By: jamesyarbrough
It seems most people want to use all tools available to solve a problem instead of using a scientific method of experimentation.
I would also like to see some threads with pics where synthetic cleaned a dirty engine.
I'm not going to use all what is available except the synthetic oil and synthetic oil filter. After looking at my stash, using the oldest stuff, it will first be with Mobil 1 then Castrol. After I use up the jugs of Mobil 1, I will take pictures of under the valve cover, then put the valve cover back on and use the 5qt jugs of Castrol oil. After Mobil 1 it would be around one year in of using just synthetic oil. Castrol it should be two years.
It seems most people want to use all tools available to solve a problem instead of using a scientific method of experimentation.
I would also like to see some threads with pics where synthetic cleaned a dirty engine.
I'm not going to use all what is available except the synthetic oil and synthetic oil filter. After looking at my stash, using the oldest stuff, it will first be with Mobil 1 then Castrol. After I use up the jugs of Mobil 1, I will take pictures of under the valve cover, then put the valve cover back on and use the 5qt jugs of Castrol oil. After Mobil 1 it would be around one year in of using just synthetic oil. Castrol it should be two years.
Originally Posted By: Triton_330
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
I an not aware of any straight dino oil on the market meeting current specs plus it is about 25% additives today I have read on the internet.
Huh?
PYB has an SN line up as do all the majors. I for one don't believe that the SN spec requires a synthetic basestock to achieve the spec. If so the oil companies would advertise it without question.
The word synthetic on oil is a selling feature. No way would an oil company not capitalize on being able to claim synthetic content.
I'm just not buying it. If SN needed synthetic to achieve the spec every oil company on earth would have it plastered on every bottle and jug they sell.
Doesn't dexos require some syn content,and isn't it advertised on the bottle?
I think he may have worded his question wrong. Maybe he meant "group II dino that meets current spec" ... ? AFAIK, aren't most dino's, if not all of them, now group II+?
Or we are reading it wrong, and should take it literally as "straight dino" as in "only conventional, not mixed at all" ...
Either way, I'm pretty sure most dino's are II+ and probably have a little synthetic in the mix to meet current SN spec.
There is no such thing as group II+. Its group II or group III.
+ isn't part of any grading system I'm aware of nor that I've ever seen. The + is purely a bitogism.
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
I an not aware of any straight dino oil on the market meeting current specs plus it is about 25% additives today I have read on the internet.
Huh?
PYB has an SN line up as do all the majors. I for one don't believe that the SN spec requires a synthetic basestock to achieve the spec. If so the oil companies would advertise it without question.
The word synthetic on oil is a selling feature. No way would an oil company not capitalize on being able to claim synthetic content.
I'm just not buying it. If SN needed synthetic to achieve the spec every oil company on earth would have it plastered on every bottle and jug they sell.
Doesn't dexos require some syn content,and isn't it advertised on the bottle?
I think he may have worded his question wrong. Maybe he meant "group II dino that meets current spec" ... ? AFAIK, aren't most dino's, if not all of them, now group II+?
Or we are reading it wrong, and should take it literally as "straight dino" as in "only conventional, not mixed at all" ...
Either way, I'm pretty sure most dino's are II+ and probably have a little synthetic in the mix to meet current SN spec.
There is no such thing as group II+. Its group II or group III.
+ isn't part of any grading system I'm aware of nor that I've ever seen. The + is purely a bitogism.
To be honest I too have never seen any evidence(pics) of any oil doing any significant,or minor cleaning in any engine without some additive also added.
I can believe there is some however is it measurable? I for one can't say,but I can say I've never seen just oil clean a crankcase.
I have used various different oil additives like seafoam,mmo and the stuff that's in the same can as seafoam but different product in various engines crankcases that showed visible deposits and sludge on the valve springs and top end.
Using a additive cleaned the top end enough so I could see metal and not just blackness through the fill hole.
Just oil never cleaned anything enough for me to notice,using crankcase additives have though.
I can believe there is some however is it measurable? I for one can't say,but I can say I've never seen just oil clean a crankcase.
I have used various different oil additives like seafoam,mmo and the stuff that's in the same can as seafoam but different product in various engines crankcases that showed visible deposits and sludge on the valve springs and top end.
Using a additive cleaned the top end enough so I could see metal and not just blackness through the fill hole.
Just oil never cleaned anything enough for me to notice,using crankcase additives have though.
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