Synthetic oil in your vehicle and more

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: typ901
So you have engines in your Subaru’s that are rated for 150-170hp, are naturally aspirated, larger displacement at 2.5 liters and require synthetic. You guys better never make fun of us German car owners and our oil requirements. I get the requirement of synthetic for the turbo 2 liters, but your hp per liter on the na engines is on par with my 2000 Accord @ 200hp from 3liters. That thing ran on whatever 5w-30 sourced. Not certain where the progress is on Subaru’s Powertrain or perhaps modern Powertrain choices all together.


177bhp actually, exactly the same as our Gen 8 Accord 2.4.
The syn vs conventional argument gets a little redundant in the case of these cars anyway, since 0W-20 is the recommended grade and while there are syn blend oils in this grade, good luck finding one.
Specific output is also not the sole determinant of oil requirements for any engine.

 

[blupupher]

Originally Posted By: Tech819

This is correct All 2017 Subaru Require synthetic

If you would like I can take picture of it and post it. It says in the maintenance booklet that all 2017 models require Synthetic oil.


I just posted a pic from the 2017 Forester owners manual, it is not "required", it is "required for optimum performance and protection", conventional can be used.

Originally Posted By: fdcg27

The syn vs conventional argument gets a little redundant in the case of these cars anyway, since 0W-20 is the recommended grade and while there are syn blend oils in this grade, good luck finding one.
Specific output is also not the sole determinant of oil requirements for any engine.


This is true, but there is the cavat that 5w-30 or 5w-40 (but not 5w-20??) can be used for top off oil (but should be changed to 0w-20 at the next oil change).

 

[Bonz]

Subaru is showing its lack of knowledge by stating a “5W40 conventional oil can be used...” As well, the word “should” does not mean anything but that. Nothing “set in stone” or “required” is defined by the word “should”, period. I would absolutely say they are simply playing on the emotion of the owners (Subaru’s are made with love, you know...

) vs. logic.

With that said, can anyone name of a 5W40 conventional oil? I am not talking a syn blend which I don’t believe exists either. I want to know of a 5W40 conventional oil, from any era. I don’t believe there has been one.

In a nut shell, if 0W20 syn is “required” and folks truly believe it, by all means use it. Otherwise 5W20 Supertech will float the boat just as well. Runs extremely well in my Acura TL SH AWD with a heckuva higher specific output.

I would contend the technology in the Acura with variable valve timing that helps extract the power would be no less necessitate a synthetic than a Subaru. There isn’t anyone in the business that runs engine tolerances that would care of a difference between synthetic or conventional oil in either 0W20 or 5W20.

I honestly and truly believe the car companies are trying to “verbally tease” people into buying and using synthetic oil because there are many drivers out there that think a car is a dispensable piece of equipment and don’t care for it like most folks on this forum. Then the automobile manufacturer has less oil related issues during warranty, from the superior protection capabilities in general over long/neglected oil change intervals.

 

[BJD78]

"I honestly and truly believe the car companies are trying to “verbally tease” people into buying and using synthetic oil because there are many drivers out there that think a car is a dispensable piece of equipment and don’t care for it like most folks on this forum. Then the automobile manufacturer has less oil related issues during warranty, from the superior protection capabilities in general over long/neglected oil change intervals."

No doubt about that. I always change oil in my vehicles myself but daughter just came home on college break and she drives the 2010 Forester. Since the temps dropped a good deal I found my self not inclined to change the oil in our cold garage so I decided to drop it off by the dealer since we were going to do a bit of shopping nearby. I said I wanted the oil changes nothing more, and the guy went into an almost lecture mode trying to convince me to do the $59.00 synthetic 5w30 oil change. I said "No thanks, the regular oil "$29.00" change is just fine." So I am guessing that they get more profit by trying to up sell. Of course many merchants try and up sell, just bought a new dryer and they try and up sell a warranty which I always decline.

 

[Tech819]

Originally Posted By: blupupher
Originally Posted By: Tech819

This is correct All 2017 Subaru Require synthetic

If you would like I can take picture of it and post it. It says in the maintenance booklet that all 2017 models require Synthetic oil.


I just posted a pic from the 2017 Forester owners manual, it is not "required", it is "required for optimum performance and protection", conventional can be used.

Originally Posted By: fdcg27

The syn vs conventional argument gets a little redundant in the case of these cars anyway, since 0W-20 is the recommended grade and while there are syn blend oils in this grade, good luck finding one.
Specific output is also not the sole determinant of oil requirements for any engine.


This is true, but there is the cavat that 5w-30 or 5w-40 (but not 5w-20??) can be used for top off oil (but should be changed to 0w-20 at the next oil change).



This is directly from My Subaru Maintenance/Warranty Booklet:

The manufacturer’s required service intervals are every 10,000km or 6 months, whichever comes first.
0W20 Synthetic oil is required for 2017 model year 4 cylinder non-turbo engines (Legacy, Outback, Forester, Impreza, Crosstrek and BRZ). 5W30 Synthetic oil is required for all 2017 model year turbo engines.

I don't know if you own a Subaru or not but When I by a car I go through the OM. I saw Required not Recommended. All it says is: Only the H6 Are recommended and not required.

5W30 Synthetic oil is recommended for 2017 model year six cylinder engines (Legacy and Outback).

Nowhere in my OM does it say to use 5w40 as a top off oil.


Have a happy new year.

 

[Bonz]

I copied this from a post on the first page:



So this is not from the 2017 model year Subaru manual? Lots of quotes and snippets that they begin to get mixed up and don’t add up.

I do not own a Subaru, however it doesn’t change the fact I see very different nomenclature being shared on the forum supposedly from the same model year Subaru vehicles.

If they are requiring synthetic, then Subaru is trying to cop out on covering legitimate engine issues that may exist by holding someone to that standard (syn vs dino) which does not correlate to oil related failure issues. The only instance may be with turbos because of heat soak on the bearings as it spins down when is the engine shutdown.

 

[blupupher]

All I know is you got to Suburau's website and search for owners manuals for '17 Forester, and you get a bunch of different manuals, I selected one and grabbed an image from it.

Here is the quick reference for the '17 Forester, says nothing about synthetic being required (but hints at it):


The wording in for the Impreza Hatch is basically the same, says "required for optimal performance" but still says conventional can be used From here


These are US manuals, so maybe Canada has different wording.

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: andrewp1998
How many honest mechanics recommend syn oil? Many that I know of.


I know a dishonest mechanic.

If I get a chance I'll ask him, though I have no idea what that'll prove, either.

 

[Bonz]

In the post above, ILSAC GF5 designation is listed first, followed by “OR” with relation to synthetic oil.

Here’s a snippet of a picture with respect to Quaker State conventional oil having the ILSAC GF5 rating. See lower right corner.



Looks like it meets the specifications here in the USA, Subaru is playing with words and playing owners.

 

[SevenBizzos]

Originally Posted By: Rolla07
Comment section is PRICELESS!


This thread is becoming equally as entertaining.

 

[fdcg27]

The wording is not very good, but I defy any native English speaker to interpret it is as stating that 0W-20 isn't the required grade and that conventional 5W-30 or the mythical conventional 5W-40 may be used as service fill and not only as add oil as needed.
One cannot interpret this language as saying that a 5W-30 or 5W-40 may be used as service fill on an oil change.
If one is inclined to do so, then good luck with any warranty claim when using an oil that doesn't meet Subaru's requirements "for optimum engine performance and protection."

 

[Bonz]

However I’ll take that bet because Subaru cannot require a synthetic oil as it states a specification that also includes non-synthetic oils.

Those words are deliberately crafted to entice people to feel the must use synthetic and hopefully go to the dealer for the overpriced service, period, and nothing more.

Guys who use this forum know there is factually no difference in ultimate protection as long as proper oil change intervals are observed. And Subaru knows that too by their vague language and the way they have swayed educated consumers to believe it is required. Subaru’s perspective: Mission accomplished

 

[Garak]

How are you going to find non-synthetic 0w-20 options, though? You might find some blends, but that's more trouble than it's worth, unless you're running a shop.

 

[4WD]

“Group IV lubes are made from synthetic sources, oftentimes natural gas”

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: 4WD
“Group IV lubes are made from synthetic sources, oftentimes natural gas”


Wrong in at leat two places and contains a contradiction in terms. Pretty good going for a one-liner.

What are you quoting?

 

[4WD]

Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: 4WD
“Group IV lubes are made from synthetic sources, oftentimes natural gas”


Wrong in at leat two places and contains a contradiction in terms. Pretty good going for a one-liner.

What are you quoting?


First line of this thread has a link to article …

 

[DGXR]

Originally Posted By: BJD78
"I honestly and truly believe the car companies are trying to “verbally tease” people into buying and using synthetic oil because there are many drivers out there that think a car is a dispensable piece of equipment and don’t care for it like most folks on this forum. Then the automobile manufacturer has less oil related issues during warranty, from the superior protection capabilities in general over long/neglected oil change intervals."

No doubt about that. I always change oil in my vehicles myself but daughter just came home on college break and she drives the 2010 Forester. Since the temps dropped a good deal I found my self not inclined to change the oil in our cold garage so I decided to drop it off by the dealer since we were going to do a bit of shopping nearby. I said I wanted the oil changes nothing more, and the guy went into an almost lecture mode trying to convince me to do the $59.00 synthetic 5w30 oil change. I said "No thanks, the regular oil "$29.00" change is just fine." So I am guessing that they get more profit by trying to up sell. Of course many merchants try and up sell, just bought a new dryer and they try and up sell a warranty which I always decline.


For sure they make more money with the synthetic oil change. Last time I wandered down the auto aisle of my local big-box store, full synthetic 5w30 was $25 per 5qt jug and premium conventional was $18 per 5qt jug. And the "premium" oil filter costs maybe $3 more than the economy filter. So they charge $30 more for the service when the materials are only $10 more. Just as an example. I do premium synthetic oil changes in my home garage for about $20 (not counting my own labor time), that's with Mobil 1 oil and a premium filter.

 

[fdcg27]

I can use M1 and an M1 oil filter for well under ten bucks by combining store deals with the MIRs.
This is what's in the Accord now while the Forester also has AFE but with a five buck Fram Ultra.
Our Subaru dealer does synthetic oil changes for $39.95 using Subaru branded 0W-20, so they aren't making a whole lot of coin doing these oil changes on cars under warranty.

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: 4WD
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: 4WD
“Group IV lubes are made from synthetic sources, oftentimes natural gas”


Wrong in at leat two places and contains a contradiction in terms. Pretty good going for a one-liner.

What are you quoting?


First line of this thread has a link to article …


Oh yeah, Sorry. Got so involved by the series on Subaru Synthetic Semantics ( real cliff hanger) I forgot all about that.