Switching to fully Synthetic.. recommendations?

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PDX2500HD

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Ok... I'm coming up on 1500 miles on my 2011 Chevy 2500 Duramax and wanted to go full synthetic on the fluids.. I've already replaced the Dex VI with TranSynd in the Allison (it's what they recommend and it's made by Castrol for them), and I did Royal Purple 75/140 in the rear diff when I had the dealer swap out the covers.... but my only area of uncertainty is motor oil.. I want to go 10K or so between changes, and I don't do a LOT of pulling, just the 11K boat/trailer once a month or so.. for about 50-80 miles.

I've narrowed it down to Mobil 1 Delvac and Scahefer 9000 ... I've used the Mobil 1 in my 2005 Mercedes E320 CDI and it works great... I go to about 10K between changes and the one sample I sent in came back very good.. The MB came factory fill with Mobil 1 5-30, and I switched it over at 1K to the Delvac..

The Chevy comes with some kind of Synth blend in the engine.. I tried calling Chev to get info on specifically what and it was a lost cause..

Anyway... Can anyone with a diesel pickup (or a medium or heavy duty diesel truck of any kind) share their experience with either Delvac or Schaefer? Again, looking at the fully synthetic versions of both..

I'd heard that the Schaefer additive package is 2nd to none, true?
 
I'd go Mobil 1 TDT year around @ 10k OCI, Schaeffer's is a quality oil also just not as easy to come by as the TDT at WM.

lots of good oil's on the market all will get the job done in the end.
 
I have a 2002 F250 Super Duty 7.3L Powerstroke. I ran Rotella T until 60K as I was told to do to get it broken in. I switched to Amsoil 15w40 Heavy Duty Diesel/Marine Oil and what a difference. I immediately noticed that the engine was quieter and I got about 2MPG better around town and 4MPH better on the highway. I run it 10K between changes and it is still fairly clean. I signed up to buy at wholesale and it costs me about $100 per oil change, which is basically a wash since I changed Rotella at 5K. You only need 10 qts in the Duramax I believe so it would be even cheaper for you. I use Amsoil in my 2009 Chevy Traverse and all of my power equipment. I believe it is the best oil, period.
 
Welcome to the site!

Some of what you've heard is probably true; Schaeffers is a very good product line. But that is true of most all the major lube manufactures. However, I'd like to say that I think we need to dispell a few myths for you, so you can make some informed decisions.

The Dmax does not come with semi-syn from the OEM; it comes with dino bulk oil they get from XOM, as I recall.

Further, unless you greatly extend your OCI, there is practially no (if not zero) benefit to using synthetics for "normal" durations and conditions. Your stated OCI duration and moderate use do not call for synthetic. There are hundreds upon hundreds of UOAs now showing that the Dmax can easily go 10k miles under the type use of you intend with good quality dino oil. The Dmax is one of the easiest on oil of the light duty diesels; there is simply no call for synthetic for your use. In fact, there are some UOAs (including one of mine) that show even heavy towing cycles are still well protected with dino oil for 10k miles.

You're not specific about your location in OR, but I suspect you don't routinely get down below zero F where you're at, so cold cranking isn't an issue either. Even if it were, you could simply get a 10w-30 HDEO in dino (which is what I use year round).

You can certainly choose to use synthetic, but you'll be wasting a lot of money for zero wear protection improvement.

Synthetic fluids are fantastic products, when you use them in the correct situations for the right reasons. They, and bypass filtration, are tools for making the oil last longer in service, thereby becoming a fiscal means of extending the OCI to improve your ROI. If you do not extend your OCI past normal conditions, there is no payback, especially in a Dmax; you'll spend approximately 3x more money, to get the same wear results.

Further, fuel mileage increases are often exaggereated. My appologies to the poster above, but I simply cannot find good credibility in his statement. Fuel savings (regarding lubes) typically comes from a reduction of grade. Going from a 40 grade to a 30 grade can save some money. Going from a 40 grade dino oil to a 40 grade synthetic will also save money, but it will be so miniscule that you'll be hard pressed to quantify it. I must be honest in that I doubt anyone actually sees a 4mpg increase from going from 15w40 dino to 15w40 syn oil; I challege the credibility of any such statement. That 4mpg increase at highway speeds amounts to perhaps a 25% increase in fuel economy (15mpg to 18.75 mpg). I call that out as total bunk. For reference, Castrol's Elixion (a very good 5w30 PAO HDEO) only claims a 3-5% increase in economy, and that is when compared to a 15w40 dino oil; that is likely much more realistic, and comes from both a base stock and grade change.

I caution you to not get sucked into hype, rhetoric and mythology. Synthetic fluids are great products, and we have some very fine vendors here that supply such products. But these synthetic products are not miracle, one-size-fits-all solutions for every application. Use your common sense, do your research, and then make informed decisions.
 
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Originally Posted By: dnewton3
That 4mpg increase at highway speeds amounts to perhaps a 25% increase in fuel economy (15mpg to 18.75 mpg). I call that out as total bunk.


I tend to agree. If vehicles could routinely get a 25% increase in fuel economy just by switching from conventional to synthetic, we'd see every manufacturer in North American mandate it for all their vehicles. Considering that the use of 5w-20 and 5w30 due, at least partly, to CAFE requirements, has made only minor, yet statistically significant, differences, if a 25% improvement could be realized, the manufacturers would be all over that.

Further, that would make synthetics pay for themselves even over a short OCI, and that's simply not the case.
 
Thanks for the info guys.... I've done quite a bit of research on the topic of synth v. dino and there is a lot of back and forth as to whether it's better for the engine or not (OCI not withstanding).. My attitude is, the truck cost me $61k, the engine alone is $18K to replace... and I don't plan to buy another one of either for at least 10 years... the extra $50-60 every 3-4 months is ultra trivial, and I don't mind "hedging" my bets on synthetic. As a pilot (my profession), I've never flown an airplane, either re-cip, turbo prop, or turbo jet (and I've flown 14 types so far) that didn't have 100% synthetic oil for all fluid groups.. there must be a reason for that.

Anyway.. the consensus from the three places I asked this question is that both are good brands, but the Schaefer seemed to have more of a presence in the commercial market. I have a dealer right near me here in the Portland area (where yes, we get below 0 on occasion ... 4 times so far this fall/winter) and he sells a gallon for $25.55, not bad..

thanks again all for the info..

I plan to keep the oil for 10K or 6 months, and change out the filter ever 5K, which is very easy to do on this engine..
 
Originally Posted By: PDX2500HD
As a pilot (my profession), I've never flown an airplane, either re-cip, turbo prop, or turbo jet (and I've flown 14 types so far) that didn't have 100% synthetic oil for all fluid groups.. there must be a reason for that.


I prefer to say to people to use what they're happy with. However, comparing airplane engines to automotive engines isn't really fair. As you're well aware, an airplane engine experiences a far greater range of different ambient temperatures in one day (in fact in minutes after take off) than many passenger vehicles experience when comparing July to January, let alone one day.

There are airplanes still flying that require a non-detergent oil. I can't think of many such automotive applications. There are far more air cooled aircraft applications than air cooled automotive applications. The list of differences that relate to lubrication needs goes on and on.

On the other hand, if you can get synthetics at a reasonable price, go for it. Here, I can get Delo LE 5w-40 for only about 40% more than a conventional HDEO, and that's not bad at all. It's when I see Mobil 1 or Syntec at $10 a litre and name brand conventional at $2 a litre that I get antsy about prices.
 
I completely agree, the demand on the oil is higher for a jet engine, didn't mean to say they were on the same level. I just feel more comfortable using the best oil, even if its overkill. Back when I used to change oil every 3000 miles, I didn't care.. but today's intervals are much longer. BMW wants to go 15000 miles between changes, but they come with Mobil 1 factory fill. Even with that, I change it at 10K.
 
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Originally Posted By: PDX2500HD
Back when I used to change oil every 3000 miles, I didn't care.. but today's intervals are much longer. BMW wants to go 15000 miles between changes, but they come with Mobil 1 factory fill. Even with that, I change it at 10K.


I agree. Those ultra long OCIs certainly will be needing a synthetic. Even my old Audi calls for 7500 mile OCIs with conventional. With North American diesels, though, there are plenty of good conventionals, and synthetics, for that matter.

That Delo synthetic I mentioned is a good deal, and may go into all my applications. The "average" Canadian synthetic at $10 a litre, however, is ridiculously overpriced. In any event, rarely is the engine the weak point in the vehicle. The body and transmission and suspension tend to be toast long before the engine has any serious problems due to wear.
 
Originally Posted By: JimmyInDenver
I have a 2002 F250 Super Duty 7.3L Powerstroke. I ran Rotella T until 60K as I was told to do to get it broken in. I switched to Amsoil 15w40 Heavy Duty Diesel/Marine Oil and what a difference. I immediately noticed that the engine was quieter and I got about 2MPG better around town and 4MPH better on the highway. I run it 10K between changes and it is still fairly clean. I signed up to buy at wholesale and it costs me about $100 per oil change, which is basically a wash since I changed Rotella at 5K. You only need 10 qts in the Duramax I believe so it would be even cheaper for you. I use Amsoil in my 2009 Chevy Traverse and all of my power equipment. I believe it is the best oil, period.
That is interesting about the mpg increase because I did 2 oil changed with my wifes 2002 Superduty 7.3 with Delvac 1 and she calculates the mpgs every tank and there was no noticeable difference.
 
Originally Posted By: PDX2500HD
I completely agree, the demand on the oil is higher for a jet engine, didn't mean to say they were on the same level. I just feel more comfortable using the best oil, even if its overkill. Back when I used to change oil every 3000 miles, I didn't care.. but today's intervals are much longer. BMW wants to go 15000 miles between changes, but they come with Mobil 1 factory fill. Even with that, I change it at 10K.
Syn oil works well but a turbine engine is apples to oranges compared to a recip auto engine. Yet I can't say for sure about all the Av recip engines that use dino oil .







.
 
I would almost place a bet that a quality name brand "dino GP II.II+ " will go 10,000 miles with ease. I do agree with the advantage of a syn oil in sub freezing starts.
 
I'm sure too that dno is good enough, but I want the best... maybe that's just me.. "Overkill Sam"...a bit conservative, but that keeps me happy. Schaefer is good stuff, and cheap by the gallon ($6.30/quart) .. with 10q capacity, that's $63.30 and $5 for the filter..
 
Originally Posted By: PDX2500HD
I'm sure too that dno is good enough, but I want the best... maybe that's just me.. "Overkill Sam"...a bit conservative, but that keeps me happy. Schaefer is good stuff, and cheap by the gallon ($6.30/quart) .. with 10q capacity, that's $63.30 and $5 for the filter..

The Schaefer's IS a quality oil it'll treat you and your DMAX well go with it and be happy your protected well.
 
If you really do't care about the money go with Rotella or any HDEO dino and do 5,000 mi OCI.
I did run a dino for the 1st 25,000 mi in my DMAX
 
Originally Posted By: PDX2500HD
I'm sure too that dno is good enough, but I want the best... maybe that's just me.. "Overkill Sam"...a bit conservative, but that keeps me happy. Schaefer is good stuff, and cheap by the gallon ($6.30/quart) .. with 10q capacity, that's $63.30 and $5 for the filter..


I think you're missing the point several of us are trying to get across.

You have already decided that you're going to limit your OCIs to 10k miles or 6 months. That is not a long exposure to a Dmax; I know because I drive one, and I pour over the diesel UOAs like milk on cereal at an orphanage.

What I, and others, are trying to get you to understand is that under "normal" circumstances (exactly like the ones you've stated; little towing, and moderate OCI durations), there is ZERO difference in wear when comparing a quality dino oil to a synthetic. I would challenge anyone to show me where a synthetic outperformed a dino in under 10k miles on a Dmax; can't be done because it hasn't happened.

So, what we are talking about is what the word "best" means to you, and to us. It's about the definition of the word. Your concept of "best" is probably what (to you) means "most expensive". You are incorectly assuming that spending more money on the oil will equate to "better" engine protection. Under the conditions you prescribe, it simply will not happen. You are assuming that dino is "adequate" and synthetics are "superior". Under the conditions you're going to see, that difference simply does not exist.

You need to spend some time reading and following the UOA history of Dmax engines in particular. There is no advantage to using a synthetic oil for under 10k miles in the place/conditions you state.

I do recognize that the vehicle is expensive; we've all spent good money on our trucks. But for you to imply that only synthetics are "best" is to infer that the rest of us are not caring for our rides as well as you. Nothing could be further from the truth. You have been sucked into the hype and rhetoric that exist around the world of synthetics. You are presuming that synthetics can offer all their advantages in all circumstances under all conditions. NOT TRUE!

But don't take my word for it; read for yourself. Don't read sales hype; read UOAs. Study the data. Look at the conditions. You say you've "read" all about synthetics, but I suspect what you've read is uninformed information and mythology. It was not that long ago that an 'expert' over at the TDR wrote of the (then upcoming) CJ-4 lubes, and how they would be inferior to the CI-4 oils. Well, after a few years of solid data, both from the lube industry and sites like this, there is CLEAR evidence he was wrong. He made presumptions and conclusions based upon faulty logic; he only looked at part of the story, and not the whole.

I am NOT saying synthetics are worthless; nothing could be further from the truth. There are some really good reasons to use synthetics; e-x-t-r-e-m-e cold and extended OCIs. But if you don't operate under those conditions, then synthetics are a waste of money, becaues you can get the very same wear protection for less money. I'm not talking about wear on a pro-rated price scale; I'm talking about the very same wear protection and UOA results, using statistical analysis.

So, if the level of wear protection is the same, why isn't the "best" oil the one that provides the same level of protection for the least cost?
 
In my 2002 Ford 7.3 I went from 15mpg to 17mpg driving around town, with some short 3-5 mile Hwy stretches and from 18mpg to 22mpg on Hwy runs from Colo to Kansas. I understand that these results aren't "typical" and I also have a Edge Programmer and 4" Turbo Back Exhaust on my truck which might help as well. The Engine is also much quieter than it was with Rotella.

I have not noticed an increase in mileage in my wife's 2009 Chevy Traverse but I don't drive it enough to tell and she has a heavy foot around town anyway. I use it in her vehicle primarily so I don't have to change it as often since she puts a lot of miles on for work.
 
10,000 miles, on a truck that might drive 5000 a year IS an extended interval as far as I'm concerned. I plan to use 6 months because I'm being conservative, but if I went 2 years, I'd have to use synthetic, wouldn't you agree? There are shelf life issues to any natural product, and many synthetic products.. I am sure I take more risk using a mineral based oil than a synthetic oil over a two year period. Sure, going by your experience and word that might not be true, but I've heard equally passionate pontification by proponents of synthetics. I don't disagree that the primary advantage to synthetic oil is extended interval, but I do disagree that this doesn't "make it better".. it does mean it's more stable.. period.

Here is just one article I found with google which backs this up, and I can find dozens of others, but why? I've made up my mind... Synth is all that goes in anything I own.... except my Honda mower which might get 10 hours of use a year and gets an oil change annually.

Article:
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/660/changing-oil-synthetic

Also, I have on 4 occasions started my truck at a OAT of in the
One more thing.. Mercedes uses a 13,000 interval on my DieselE 320 CDI.. using synthetic Mobil 1... They use a VERY high quality fleece filter as well which I don't believe GM uses.

When you consider the added stress of a diesel engine (soot suspension issues, higher torque, and compression etc..) that is a reasonable interval for a "car" that weighs 4000lbs and does no heavy towing. Why is it unreasonable to believe that 10K interval on a 7800lb vehicle that will town more than 150% it's weight is unreasonable?
 
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'Splain to me then how the over the road semi trucks are getting around a million miles brfore overhaul running Dino oils . Been reading about that is trade magazines at work in the early 90's and is still happening. As far as you miles before oil changing your not getting any benefit from the syn oil. you can spend all the $$$ you want to it is yours to spend but try to seperate the info from those that really know and those that think they do. Other than below freezing and lower starts there is little if any advantage running syn oils unless extended oil change intervals are used. Ask any one who really knows.
 
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