I'm not going to argue the point further with either of you, you've both proved my point anyway.
SUV driver runs over bikers
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Originally Posted By: Bladecutter
Originally Posted By: Win
Crotch rockets, quads, dirt bikes, a freakshow of punks.
I wonder which one is the Toe Cutter?
I'm sorry, but are you referring to me?
BC.
Quite certain he meant the antagonistic motorcycle gang leader from the movie, "Mad Max"
Originally Posted By: Win
Crotch rockets, quads, dirt bikes, a freakshow of punks.
I wonder which one is the Toe Cutter?
I'm sorry, but are you referring to me?
BC.
Quite certain he meant the antagonistic motorcycle gang leader from the movie, "Mad Max"
I would have run their [censored] over too.
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
I'm not going to argue the point further with either of you, you've both proved my point anyway.
And, what point is that? That you think someone putting another person in a position where they fear for their and their family's lives should expect, and deserves, all of the respect, courtesy, and rights that they've NOT given to the innocent they are terrorizing?
Let me guess... If your were a police officer, you'd cite the RR driver for not using his blinker when he sped off trying to save his family. Or, would you call it exhibition driving? Or????
I'm not going to argue the point further with either of you, you've both proved my point anyway.
And, what point is that? That you think someone putting another person in a position where they fear for their and their family's lives should expect, and deserves, all of the respect, courtesy, and rights that they've NOT given to the innocent they are terrorizing?
Let me guess... If your were a police officer, you'd cite the RR driver for not using his blinker when he sped off trying to save his family. Or, would you call it exhibition driving? Or????
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
When you lie among flea ridden dogs, don't be surprised if you get them too.
Agreed.
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Originally Posted By: mitsuman47
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
The poor guy who was run over MAY HAVE been tending to his fallen comrade. He MAY HAVE been banging his hands on the hood and yelling for the RR driver to get out so he can beat him up.
Correct. Also, it doesn't matter whether or not he was tending to his friend when he was run over, since his 28 hooligan cohorts were trying to harm the RR driver.
Tending to your injured criminal friend doesn't give you any brownie points in my book.
I'm not sure the law in any state in the union will agree with you...
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Now hang on a second...
If he was not a threat then the driver of the SUV had no right to injure him.
So it is really your position that running over someone checking on a downed rider is acceptable behavior?
WOW...
A couple of things here...
The way I see it, this falls under "Disparity of force". Driver was encircled by an aggressive group, threatening him and his family. No doubt it varies by state. When you're confronted by an aggressive group, the intent/actions of the majority become the intent/actions of the entire group. So even if the fellow who was tending to his comrade and not being violent towards the Rover driver, he is associated with them and any injury that comes to him as a result of the Rover driver defending himself is justified.
It's the same when encountering a group of people when you're alone. Say you encounter a dozen unarmed people, and 10 are outwardly violent. Even though they're not armed, disparity of force exists (10 against 1) and can justify the use of deadly force to defend yourself. Say the aggressive ones attempt to attack you and you fire a gun in defense. In the panic, you miss the aggressors and hit one of the 2 non aggressive people. Oh well. The law groups those two with the rest of their group and their subsequent injury or death can be excused.
When you lie among flea ridden dogs, don't be surprised if you get them too.
Agreed.
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Originally Posted By: mitsuman47
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
The poor guy who was run over MAY HAVE been tending to his fallen comrade. He MAY HAVE been banging his hands on the hood and yelling for the RR driver to get out so he can beat him up.
Correct. Also, it doesn't matter whether or not he was tending to his friend when he was run over, since his 28 hooligan cohorts were trying to harm the RR driver.
Tending to your injured criminal friend doesn't give you any brownie points in my book.
I'm not sure the law in any state in the union will agree with you...
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Now hang on a second...
If he was not a threat then the driver of the SUV had no right to injure him.
So it is really your position that running over someone checking on a downed rider is acceptable behavior?
WOW...
A couple of things here...
The way I see it, this falls under "Disparity of force". Driver was encircled by an aggressive group, threatening him and his family. No doubt it varies by state. When you're confronted by an aggressive group, the intent/actions of the majority become the intent/actions of the entire group. So even if the fellow who was tending to his comrade and not being violent towards the Rover driver, he is associated with them and any injury that comes to him as a result of the Rover driver defending himself is justified.
It's the same when encountering a group of people when you're alone. Say you encounter a dozen unarmed people, and 10 are outwardly violent. Even though they're not armed, disparity of force exists (10 against 1) and can justify the use of deadly force to defend yourself. Say the aggressive ones attempt to attack you and you fire a gun in defense. In the panic, you miss the aggressors and hit one of the 2 non aggressive people. Oh well. The law groups those two with the rest of their group and their subsequent injury or death can be excused.
Watched it hashed out on FOX News a while ago, and one of the gals on FOX witnessed this same gang causing trouble on this same highway.
Simple conclusion, young punks totally out of control.
Simple conclusion, young punks totally out of control.
This adds a new perspective from someone that lives and works in the area.
Quote:
Solo DenisMarc Roffman wrote: "Here is some additional information you all might want to read. This is my personal experience with this situation. I made sure to post this on the support site as well. As a trucker that would deliver in north jersey and New York I am familiar with these gangs. I can hopefully clarify a few things. First the initial "accident" is part of a game they play. They ride in a huge group and will operate together to slow down traffic. Next they pick out high end vehicles targeting people with families in them, the targets will usually be white or Asian. Then one of the riders will do a "brake check" and stop suddenly in front of the target vehicle causing a minor bump. In some cases they will just roll back into their target vehicle. They will then mob the vehicle demanding money and or begin attacking the person inside. It is their practice to also slash the tires to prevent the vehicle from escaping. Truckers are well aware of them and are advised not to stop. You can clearly see in the video how they are well practiced in this style of attack. The police in NY have backed off them after an officer ran one down using his vehicle a few months back. The video was all over the net so I advise you to check it out. These "bikers" ride dirt bikes and sport bikes very few of which are street legal and even fewer have plates. They run red lights, stop signs, and have no regard for the law. If you are ever in this situation do not stop, immediately call the police and do whatever you have to to keep them from boxing you in. NEVER leave the scene of an accident if you are not under direct threat!!! Only run if you have no other choice, and again immediately call the police. This is not rare by any means, the only reason this incident got any attention is because of the helmet cam video being posted on the net. If you see anyone in this situation, call the police. Make no mistake confusing these punks with true bikers. You will rarely if ever see a member of these gangs on a Harley. Do not for a minute blame true bikers for this kind of behavior. Bikers like those involved in the 2 million Bikers to DC Rally are American Patriots and would be among the first to come to your aid. A final note, always be aware of motorcycles and share the road. Check your mirrors and don't ride anyone's bumper, motorcycles have a much smaller profile then a car and are harder to see."
Quote:
Solo DenisMarc Roffman wrote: "Here is some additional information you all might want to read. This is my personal experience with this situation. I made sure to post this on the support site as well. As a trucker that would deliver in north jersey and New York I am familiar with these gangs. I can hopefully clarify a few things. First the initial "accident" is part of a game they play. They ride in a huge group and will operate together to slow down traffic. Next they pick out high end vehicles targeting people with families in them, the targets will usually be white or Asian. Then one of the riders will do a "brake check" and stop suddenly in front of the target vehicle causing a minor bump. In some cases they will just roll back into their target vehicle. They will then mob the vehicle demanding money and or begin attacking the person inside. It is their practice to also slash the tires to prevent the vehicle from escaping. Truckers are well aware of them and are advised not to stop. You can clearly see in the video how they are well practiced in this style of attack. The police in NY have backed off them after an officer ran one down using his vehicle a few months back. The video was all over the net so I advise you to check it out. These "bikers" ride dirt bikes and sport bikes very few of which are street legal and even fewer have plates. They run red lights, stop signs, and have no regard for the law. If you are ever in this situation do not stop, immediately call the police and do whatever you have to to keep them from boxing you in. NEVER leave the scene of an accident if you are not under direct threat!!! Only run if you have no other choice, and again immediately call the police. This is not rare by any means, the only reason this incident got any attention is because of the helmet cam video being posted on the net. If you see anyone in this situation, call the police. Make no mistake confusing these punks with true bikers. You will rarely if ever see a member of these gangs on a Harley. Do not for a minute blame true bikers for this kind of behavior. Bikers like those involved in the 2 million Bikers to DC Rally are American Patriots and would be among the first to come to your aid. A final note, always be aware of motorcycles and share the road. Check your mirrors and don't ride anyone's bumper, motorcycles have a much smaller profile then a car and are harder to see."
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Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Originally Posted By: Mykl
More info. Miss Domenech is an idiot. The people to blame for her nephew's hospitalization are not the people in the Range Rover, but the people who tried to attack the occupants of the Range Rover.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/...over-chase?lite
Now hang on a second...
If he was not a threat then the driver of the SUV had no right to injure him.
So it is really your position that running over someone checking on a downed rider is acceptable behavior?
WOW...
If the criminal idiot that was run over hadn't stopped in the middle of the FREAKING INTERSTATE and blocked traffic with all his hooligan brothers, maybe he would not be paralyzed and in the hospital. Screw him. I hope he enjoys his life without the use of his legs and/or arms. Idiot got what he deserved as far as I'm concerned. No sympathy for scum bags.
I would be extremely surprised if the police brought charges against the SUV driver. He didn't bring this on the bikers, they brought it on themselves. He just wanted to be left alone.
But the one who stopped in front of him isn't the one paralyzed...
The idiot is paralyzed because he was standing in front of an SUV that had just been boxed in and forced to a stop. If he wasnt being a hooligan and standing in front of the SUV, he would still have the use of his legs.
You probably would have preferred the SUV driver exit the car, the bikers built a bonfire out of the SUV, and they all stood around happily singing kumbaya around the burning inferno while holding hands and swinging back and forth. Begin eye rolling ...
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Originally Posted By: Mykl
More info. Miss Domenech is an idiot. The people to blame for her nephew's hospitalization are not the people in the Range Rover, but the people who tried to attack the occupants of the Range Rover.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/...over-chase?lite
Now hang on a second...
If he was not a threat then the driver of the SUV had no right to injure him.
So it is really your position that running over someone checking on a downed rider is acceptable behavior?
WOW...
If the criminal idiot that was run over hadn't stopped in the middle of the FREAKING INTERSTATE and blocked traffic with all his hooligan brothers, maybe he would not be paralyzed and in the hospital. Screw him. I hope he enjoys his life without the use of his legs and/or arms. Idiot got what he deserved as far as I'm concerned. No sympathy for scum bags.
I would be extremely surprised if the police brought charges against the SUV driver. He didn't bring this on the bikers, they brought it on themselves. He just wanted to be left alone.
But the one who stopped in front of him isn't the one paralyzed...
The idiot is paralyzed because he was standing in front of an SUV that had just been boxed in and forced to a stop. If he wasnt being a hooligan and standing in front of the SUV, he would still have the use of his legs.
You probably would have preferred the SUV driver exit the car, the bikers built a bonfire out of the SUV, and they all stood around happily singing kumbaya around the burning inferno while holding hands and swinging back and forth. Begin eye rolling ...
I would like to see some real bikers explain to the P.of S's how their riding is affecting other bikers.
It seems some people forget about the wife and baby in the car. What on God's earth do think would have happened if the RR would have stopped and NOT drove off????
They wanted to be Outlaws but they wanted rules when it came back on them.....well at that point there ain't no rules.
It seems some people forget about the wife and baby in the car. What on God's earth do think would have happened if the RR would have stopped and NOT drove off????
They wanted to be Outlaws but they wanted rules when it came back on them.....well at that point there ain't no rules.
The one thing I do know about this incident is that the man's wife and two year old daughter were also in the SUV. I don't know how this incident started but even if the man driving the SUV started it somehow that does not justify the behavior of the bikers. Because if the SUV guy did something wrong they could have called the police, and they certainly had plenty of witnesses.
I have known a few real bikers. Unless a biker is really drunk or on drugs what real biker would attack an SUV that has not only a man in it, but the wife and two year old child, break windows in using helmets and then beat the father in front of his wife and his daughter? Heck, that can almost be considered child abuse. And the child and the woman certainly could have been hurt by flying glass. No real man is going to do stuff like that. And if you wind up going to prison, how do you think the convicts are going to think about it?
So far the only people arrested have been two of the bikers and they are looking for more. The police have not arrested the driver of the SUV.
I have known a few real bikers. Unless a biker is really drunk or on drugs what real biker would attack an SUV that has not only a man in it, but the wife and two year old child, break windows in using helmets and then beat the father in front of his wife and his daughter? Heck, that can almost be considered child abuse. And the child and the woman certainly could have been hurt by flying glass. No real man is going to do stuff like that. And if you wind up going to prison, how do you think the convicts are going to think about it?
So far the only people arrested have been two of the bikers and they are looking for more. The police have not arrested the driver of the SUV.
This is what happens when you have an entire state made up of
lawmakers who are anti 2nd Amendment and anti Constitution.
lawmakers who are anti 2nd Amendment and anti Constitution.
Bingo.....it appears most of these type of incidents typically occur in cities that do not allow 2nd amendment provisions....Hmmmm, wonder why?
Bingo again....the hoods have nothing to fear!
Bingo again....the hoods have nothing to fear!
Now we find out that the police were out harassing at least 54 other bikers while all this was going on.
Several news stories seem to indicate that this was a gathering of multiple groups of motorcyclist who would not normally associate... which explains all the different sorts of bikes.
Several news stories also say he ran over the biker when they surrounded his car and began to break windows. Clearly that happened later, but I see no evidence that it was occurring when he ran over the downed rider... I see several bikes moving to the side and what looks like it might be a clear exit for the SUV. I see a bunch of bikes stopped and looking back.
And no I don't think he should have let them beat him or his family up...
There is more than one mob mentality going on about this incident, as evidenced by the attacks right here BITOG on anyone who doesn't immediately think the SUV driver should have run all the bikers over, and on YouTube by all the vitriol anti-biker and racist commentary.
Was the guy who slowed in front of the Range Rover a moron? Surely.
Was there a ton of stupidity going on in the video and videos (evidently) prior to? Surely.
Does the group give bikers a bad name? Surely.
Was the Range Rover driver under attack when stopped at the end of the video? Surely.
Was the Range Rover under attack immediately prior to running over the downed moron? Not so Sure... (maybe, maybe not)
It would be interesting to hear what the driver of the white Econoline saw, if anything...
Several news stories seem to indicate that this was a gathering of multiple groups of motorcyclist who would not normally associate... which explains all the different sorts of bikes.
Several news stories also say he ran over the biker when they surrounded his car and began to break windows. Clearly that happened later, but I see no evidence that it was occurring when he ran over the downed rider... I see several bikes moving to the side and what looks like it might be a clear exit for the SUV. I see a bunch of bikes stopped and looking back.
And no I don't think he should have let them beat him or his family up...
There is more than one mob mentality going on about this incident, as evidenced by the attacks right here BITOG on anyone who doesn't immediately think the SUV driver should have run all the bikers over, and on YouTube by all the vitriol anti-biker and racist commentary.
Was the guy who slowed in front of the Range Rover a moron? Surely.
Was there a ton of stupidity going on in the video and videos (evidently) prior to? Surely.
Does the group give bikers a bad name? Surely.
Was the Range Rover driver under attack when stopped at the end of the video? Surely.
Was the Range Rover under attack immediately prior to running over the downed moron? Not so Sure... (maybe, maybe not)
It would be interesting to hear what the driver of the white Econoline saw, if anything...
Was the SUV driver behaving as a pack ?
Ummm...no, by definition...he was with his family in a car...the pack/mob were those around him.
bikers like to be individuals by playing in packs, and reinforcing each other's idiotic behaviours...
then complaining that "cagers" behave unpredictably (to that demented pack behaviour).
I'm very interested that the first footage of the pack circling the car and recording the check brake was a biker, and released it to the media...what's his life worth to the rest of the pack ?
Ummm...no, by definition...he was with his family in a car...the pack/mob were those around him.
bikers like to be individuals by playing in packs, and reinforcing each other's idiotic behaviours...
then complaining that "cagers" behave unpredictably (to that demented pack behaviour).
I'm very interested that the first footage of the pack circling the car and recording the check brake was a biker, and released it to the media...what's his life worth to the rest of the pack ?
Originally Posted By: Virtuoso
I would have run their [censored] over too.
If they started the problem and I was unable to exit safely w/o them following me, and I felt I/we were in danger, my vehicle would have become a 4000 lb. smart bomb, or guided missile, take your pick. While I was running them over my wife would have been dialing 911 if she was with me.
Still exiting safely if possible would have been my first choice.
I would have run their [censored] over too.
If they started the problem and I was unable to exit safely w/o them following me, and I felt I/we were in danger, my vehicle would have become a 4000 lb. smart bomb, or guided missile, take your pick. While I was running them over my wife would have been dialing 911 if she was with me.
Still exiting safely if possible would have been my first choice.
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Was the Range Rover under attack immediately prior to running over the downed moron? Not so Sure... (maybe, maybe not)
You're right, it's not crystal clear, which means we have to weigh the evidence we have. The bulk of that evidence suggests that the driver of the Range Rover had been attacked.
At the very least you can't possibly say that there is no reasonable doubt concerning anything a district attorney might try to prosecute him for. Their group instigated this encounter, and their group displayed a willingness for violence.
So that means that it's the RR driver's word versus the gang. After watching that video, who are you going to believe?
Was the Range Rover under attack immediately prior to running over the downed moron? Not so Sure... (maybe, maybe not)
You're right, it's not crystal clear, which means we have to weigh the evidence we have. The bulk of that evidence suggests that the driver of the Range Rover had been attacked.
At the very least you can't possibly say that there is no reasonable doubt concerning anything a district attorney might try to prosecute him for. Their group instigated this encounter, and their group displayed a willingness for violence.
So that means that it's the RR driver's word versus the gang. After watching that video, who are you going to believe?
Another biker charged with criminal misconduct...
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/...olving-suv?lite
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/...olving-suv?lite
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Originally Posted By: mitsuman47
How is RR driver supposed to differentiate the actions/motives of 30 reckless boneheads. He had crazy stuff going on all around him, and his fight or flight kicked in.
'...ONLY way to protect my family...'
So it is OK with you if he runs over someone walking down the sidewalk? How about a paramedic? Doctor that got out of the car next to him to help the injured rider...?
You simply can't disregard the safety of people who are not actively engaged in criminal activity...
Bet he ends up charged, even if he doesn't he will be ruined in civil court...
All strawman arguments. If you watch the videos, it was the BIKERS who were riding on sidewalks.
It astonishes me you're defending the bikers. If you had 30 guys surrounding your vehicle, with your young child and wife, slashing your tires, trying to open the doors, breakign windows etc., you're going to get out and tend to a guy you ran over because he instigated essentially a gang brawl against you? WOW. Better hope it never happens to you buddy because you'll end up like mince meat with that attitude.
Originally Posted By: mitsuman47
How is RR driver supposed to differentiate the actions/motives of 30 reckless boneheads. He had crazy stuff going on all around him, and his fight or flight kicked in.
'...ONLY way to protect my family...'
So it is OK with you if he runs over someone walking down the sidewalk? How about a paramedic? Doctor that got out of the car next to him to help the injured rider...?
You simply can't disregard the safety of people who are not actively engaged in criminal activity...
Bet he ends up charged, even if he doesn't he will be ruined in civil court...
All strawman arguments. If you watch the videos, it was the BIKERS who were riding on sidewalks.
It astonishes me you're defending the bikers. If you had 30 guys surrounding your vehicle, with your young child and wife, slashing your tires, trying to open the doors, breakign windows etc., you're going to get out and tend to a guy you ran over because he instigated essentially a gang brawl against you? WOW. Better hope it never happens to you buddy because you'll end up like mince meat with that attitude.
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