Maybe the Ecores are designed to blow out the media as a substitute for having a proper bypass valve? Plus, it gives you a great flow rate hot or cold!
Super Tech ST3614 - Photos
- Thread starter paulo57509
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: labman
A lot. Many filters are smaller and have less media in them. Purolator is under new ownership and the filters are redesigned. Champ has introduced the Ecore. Wix is no longer part of Dana. I haven't cut up before and after Wix filters. Less media may not be bad if it is better quality. Even 7 month old data may be out of date.
Those changes are not relevent. There were small filters long before 2002. So a few companies have changed hands; big deal thats not new. Maybe this e-core was damaged when it was cut open? Why doesn't the OP sent it back to General and let let examine it?
A lot. Many filters are smaller and have less media in them. Purolator is under new ownership and the filters are redesigned. Champ has introduced the Ecore. Wix is no longer part of Dana. I haven't cut up before and after Wix filters. Less media may not be bad if it is better quality. Even 7 month old data may be out of date.
Those changes are not relevent. There were small filters long before 2002. So a few companies have changed hands; big deal thats not new. Maybe this e-core was damaged when it was cut open? Why doesn't the OP sent it back to General and let let examine it?
Originally Posted By: AuthorEditor
Maybe the Ecores are designed to blow out the media as a substitute for having a proper bypass valve? Plus, it gives you a great flow rate hot or cold!
Not all filters need a by-pass. If the oil pump has a built in by-pass (as most do) then the filter does not need one. Have you ever re-built an engine?
Maybe the Ecores are designed to blow out the media as a substitute for having a proper bypass valve? Plus, it gives you a great flow rate hot or cold!
Not all filters need a by-pass. If the oil pump has a built in by-pass (as most do) then the filter does not need one. Have you ever re-built an engine?
First, that was sarcasm about the media blowing out. Second, the filter is located between the pump and the engine passages. Yes, the pump often has a relief valve, but the filter could still plug up blocking sufficient oil to the engine. So, many engines require a filter with a built-in bypass valve, while others spec. a bypass valve built into the filter mount on the engine itself. I don't know which type the Lexus requires. But, the point is that some of us are nervous about the Ecore design of a single piece of rubber that somehow serves as both an ADBV and a bypass valve if the pressure drop across the filter gets to be too much.
This (pics) has not been my experience with the ST #3614's that I have used. That said, it does appear from recent posted pics, that the open design nylon cage centertube is more susceptible to media blowout. Especially it seems, where the media pleats are not quite as even/uniform and my flatten from pressure, or some other reason.
Originally Posted By: MegaCorp
Originally Posted By: AuthorEditor
Maybe the Ecores are designed to blow out the media as a substitute for having a proper bypass valve? Plus, it gives you a great flow rate hot or cold!
Not all filters need a by-pass. If the oil pump has a built in by-pass (as most do) then the filter does not need one. Have you ever re-built an engine?
I think you are confusing an oil filter's bypass valve with the engine's oil pump pressure relief valve. They are two totally different things.
The only engines that don't need a filter with a bypass valve inside the filter itself, are GM engines that have the filter bypass built into the engine block near where the filter mounts to the engine.
Originally Posted By: AuthorEditor
Maybe the Ecores are designed to blow out the media as a substitute for having a proper bypass valve? Plus, it gives you a great flow rate hot or cold!
Not all filters need a by-pass. If the oil pump has a built in by-pass (as most do) then the filter does not need one. Have you ever re-built an engine?
I think you are confusing an oil filter's bypass valve with the engine's oil pump pressure relief valve. They are two totally different things.
The only engines that don't need a filter with a bypass valve inside the filter itself, are GM engines that have the filter bypass built into the engine block near where the filter mounts to the engine.
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Bob prefered The Fram oil filters over all others because they had the best flow rates. Here is his detailed work:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/315271/
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/315271/
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/315271/
Thanks for bring that up. I had forgotten about that work. Too bad much of it is obsolete now. It does sound like Purolator's new owners have address the past poor flow rates.
Bob prefered The Fram oil filters over all others because they had the best flow rates. Here is his detailed work:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/315271/
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/315271/
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/315271/
Thanks for bring that up. I had forgotten about that work. Too bad much of it is obsolete now. It does sound like Purolator's new owners have address the past poor flow rates.
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2002
- Messages
- 39,793
I didn't agree with the way Bob did the test. He should have made the engine side pressure all the same and noted the upstream pressure. He set the pump side pressure @40psi and just noted the down stream.
Yeah but later in that same thread, A Fram tough guard was tested and had a lot of psid:
filter study
Then later in that same thread another Fram extraguard was tested and it had much higher psid:
filter study
So it looks like the first Fram tested had low psid because it leaked internally.
filter study
Then later in that same thread another Fram extraguard was tested and it had much higher psid:
filter study
So it looks like the first Fram tested had low psid because it leaked internally.
I haven't read the whole old Bob thread ... but if he did his PSID test in a manner that subjected all the filters to the same test parameters (flow rate & viscosity) then it still gives a relative comparison between the filters. It might not have replicated the 'real life' flow rates in the engine, but it provided a controlled 'comparison test'.
Yeah I think so too. He got 40 psi with his setup and from what I read it probably emulated a typical oil pump and the pressure and flow it'd create in an engine. Most of the filters psid were right at the typical filter bypass setting ~10 psi. So the test sort of indicated that once the oil get hotter than room temperature little oil is bypassed.
Guys - been busy, just getting into this thread.
Having observed several Ecore failures recently, including my own, I can't bring myself to use one for an extended service again (i.e. >3000 miles). Seeing as how everything I maintain typically runs to an OLM (GM) or 7500 miles (Ford 5.4L), I just don't see the newer Ecores holding up. Even if the media isn't spaced perfectly, the material has changed. It becomes "crispy" and VERY brittle. That scares me (ESCARE!!!). Fortunately, my truck only sees Motorcraft, but my wifes Maxx will return to using the last of her Advance AA3387A's in my stash and then I'm sticking to Purolators. No more Ecores for me.
IMO, there just isn't enough support in an ecore to sustain the new media that turns brittle.
Having observed several Ecore failures recently, including my own, I can't bring myself to use one for an extended service again (i.e. >3000 miles). Seeing as how everything I maintain typically runs to an OLM (GM) or 7500 miles (Ford 5.4L), I just don't see the newer Ecores holding up. Even if the media isn't spaced perfectly, the material has changed. It becomes "crispy" and VERY brittle. That scares me (ESCARE!!!). Fortunately, my truck only sees Motorcraft, but my wifes Maxx will return to using the last of her Advance AA3387A's in my stash and then I'm sticking to Purolators. No more Ecores for me.
IMO, there just isn't enough support in an ecore to sustain the new media that turns brittle.
Originally Posted By: Zaedock
Fortunately, my truck only sees Motorcraft, but my wifes Maxx will return to using the last of her Advance AA3387A's in my stash and then I'm sticking to Purolators
All Purolator made, and all good choices, IMO.
Wish I could get more of the AAP Total Grip filters, a good value.
Fortunately, my truck only sees Motorcraft, but my wifes Maxx will return to using the last of her Advance AA3387A's in my stash and then I'm sticking to Purolators
All Purolator made, and all good choices, IMO.
Wish I could get more of the AAP Total Grip filters, a good value.
Last photos for this thread....promise.
I carefully removed the end caps from the filter. They were bonded to the media pretty well, except for the few pleats on either side of the media seam.
FWIW, I opened two new ST's I had on the shelf; ST3980 and another ST3614. Looking at the tops of the end caps, I could see the bond lines through the fiber, except at the seam and one pleat on either side.
Back on topic.
There was a lot of debris in the media. A lot more than what is shown here. I believe that the filter was fine at some point and then failed later on. Been in service too long? Perhaps.
Another look at the breach. I might have damaged the media further when I pulled the end caps, but I was careful not to add to the existing damage.
I have an ST3980 installed on the Lumina that will be coming off tomorrow. It was installed back on August '09 and has a couple of thousand miles on it.
I carefully removed the end caps from the filter. They were bonded to the media pretty well, except for the few pleats on either side of the media seam.
FWIW, I opened two new ST's I had on the shelf; ST3980 and another ST3614. Looking at the tops of the end caps, I could see the bond lines through the fiber, except at the seam and one pleat on either side.
Back on topic.
There was a lot of debris in the media. A lot more than what is shown here. I believe that the filter was fine at some point and then failed later on. Been in service too long? Perhaps.
Another look at the breach. I might have damaged the media further when I pulled the end caps, but I was careful not to add to the existing damage.
I have an ST3980 installed on the Lumina that will be coming off tomorrow. It was installed back on August '09 and has a couple of thousand miles on it.
Originally Posted By: paulo57509
Another look at the breach. I might have damaged the media further when I pulled the end caps, but I was careful not to add to the existing damage.
Look closely at that photo above near where the blow-out occurred. You can see the imprint of the center tube cage in the media due to flow PSID, indicating that there was some good force on the media due to it folding flat in that area.
Another look at the breach. I might have damaged the media further when I pulled the end caps, but I was careful not to add to the existing damage.
Look closely at that photo above near where the blow-out occurred. You can see the imprint of the center tube cage in the media due to flow PSID, indicating that there was some good force on the media due to it folding flat in that area.
Yeah, badnews has that right, I'd go with the cheap Fram if I only had a choice between that and an Ecore.
Originally Posted By: Zedhed
Penny wise -- and dollar foolish
Of course, for decades the Volkswagen Beetle had no oil filter... just a screen... and did fine.
Penny wise -- and dollar foolish
Of course, for decades the Volkswagen Beetle had no oil filter... just a screen... and did fine.
I would not run a SuperCrap Filter on my commuter car a 1993 Camry LE-V6 with 117K miles let alone a older Lexus LS 400!!!
That is a mortal sin!
That is a mortal sin!
Originally Posted By: sbergman27
Of course, for decades the Volkswagen Beetle had no oil filter... just a screen... and did fine.
Of course, tolerances on older engines were a whole lot looser than they are manufactured with nowadays.
Of course, for decades the Volkswagen Beetle had no oil filter... just a screen... and did fine.
Of course, tolerances on older engines were a whole lot looser than they are manufactured with nowadays.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
