Sulphur in additives?

eliminator · May 10, 2007

Hello,

Do any of the fuel or oil additives (Lucas UCL, FP60, ARX) contain sulphur?

The reason I ask is that I own a '95 BMW with the original Nikasil engine block. Supposedly, high sulphur levels will damage the nikasil, resulting in a loss of compression.

I would like to do a couple of ARX cycles, and run UCL or FP60, but am hesitant to do so for fear of damaging the engine. Has anyone done an analysis of these products, or can the manufacturers shed some light here?

I've used these products with great results on other vehicles (with iron blocks). I'm only concerned with Nikasil compatibility.

Tempest · May 10, 2007

The Lucas UCL MSDS shows oxides of Sulphur as a decomposition material...as well as Phos. oxides.

Jax_RX8 · May 10, 2007

MMO has sulfur.

bruce381 · May 10, 2007

Quote:

The Lucas UCL MSDS shows oxides of Sulphur as a decomposition material...as well as Phos. oxides.

That is from ZDDP of which ALL PCMO's will have not a worry
bruce

Tempest · May 10, 2007

Quote:

That is from ZDDP of which ALL PCMO's will have not a worry
bruce

Ahhhh...good to know. Thanks Bruce.

eliminator · May 11, 2007

Quote:

That is from ZDDP of which ALL PCMO's will have not a worry
bruce

What's a PCMO?

So, they all contain sulphur, and therefore are probably not safe to use in the Nikasil motors. I don't want to chance it, anyways.

Thanks for your help!

Tempest · May 11, 2007

Quote:

What's a PCMO?

So, they all contain sulphur, and therefore are probably not safe to use in the Nikasil motors. I don't want to chance it, anyways.

Thanks for your help!

PCMO = Passenger Car Motor Oil

What Bruce is trying to say is that all OIL has sulphur due to the add pack, and that the Lucas has similar additives.

SrDriver · May 11, 2007

Check the Lucas web site about info regarding Sulfur.

wileyE · May 11, 2007

Would take a lot more sulfur than whats in any motor oil to hurt nicasil. It would be nice to trace back through bmw where this comes from? I use pure muratic acid on nicsil to melt molten aluminum off in a post seizure rebuild, it doesn't touch the nicasil.

My guess is bmw may have been using some sort of soft metal in it's rings, similar to the way they build moly rings when they went to nicasil. And the nik got blamed for the precaution? dunno? would like to hear more.

Wrehch · May 11, 2007

I highly doubt any fuel additives that go into diesel fuel will have sulfur in them anymore. If they did they would not meet EPA regulation 40 CFR 79.23 and would be illegal for use in engines that use LSD or ULSD.

Pablo · May 11, 2007

Quote:

The reason I ask is that I own a '95 BMW with the original Nikasil engine block. Supposedly, high sulphur levels will damage the nikasil, resulting in a loss of compression.

Huh? That's bogus. Sulfur comes in many forms, that is to say free elemental sulfur is not present in motor oil. It's in compounds that are in crude oil and it's in all sorts of very beneficial additives. These sulfur bearing additives will not etch, eat or otherwise harm any alloys used in modern engines.

First of all, motor oil is not a water based brew with all kinds of acid/base or electrolytic reactions going on. Sure, H2S04 (sulfuric acid) can form in oil from bad combustion, water in crankcase, etc but that is quickly neutralized by additives in the oil. Even if the TBN was to dip below 1 or the TAN was on the high side there would not be a rapid attack on metals.

Bottom line: Choose a good oil, run AutoRx, and worry about other things.

Craig in Canada · May 11, 2007

Pablo, you're aware that there were all kinds of problems with euro Nikasil engines failing in the 90s? The manufacturers blamed this on sulfur in North American fuel and lots of engines were replaced en masse with Alusil variants. The OP still has one of the originals and is rightfully concerned.

I think sulfur levels in fuel are down considerably, but I don't know if they're up to the standards that euro fuel was in the 90s. You'd think so, but I don't have those facts.

Second, to the OP, it was fuel sulfur that was blamed, not oil sulfur.

Third, the blame on sulfur has been rumored by some to be a load of #@$%! since BMW had no one to blame. If it were mine, however, I would be playing it on the safe side also.

Fourth, to the OP, if you're in California, I'd bet that you already have the lowest sulfur fuel in the country

That might be why your Nikasil block is still OK.

Craig.

Pablo · May 11, 2007

Quote:

Pablo, you're aware that there were all kinds of problems with euro Nikasil engines failing in the 90s? The manufacturers blamed this on sulfur in North American fuel and lots of engines were replaced en masse with Alusil variants. The OP still has one of the originals and is rightfully concerned.

Yes I'm aware of this. And I still think it's a cop out in two ways. First of all even with the slightly higher S levels allowed (but not always present) in NA fuels back then, the alloy can handle it (if it's the correct composition) and for BMW to use this as an excuse, is rather, well, inexcusable - as if they didn't know they are selling their cars in NA!

I agree that everyone should be concerned about their engines and oil choices, but the OP's concerns about oils causing a problem with his cylinders are not well founded.

eliminator · May 11, 2007

Quote:

but the OP's concerns about oils causing a problem with his cylinders are not well founded.

First, I never said anything about OIL. I'm asking about additives, and am mostly concerned with fuel adds.

Second, why don't you do some research before you start ranting about somthing that you apparently know NOTHING about? This is a well documented problem. Do a google search for "BMW Nikasil" and see for yourself.

Third, sulphur levels were not "slightly" higher back then. Currently (If I remember correctly), gasoline has around 30ppm sulphur. Ten years ago, fuel with over 1500ppm sulphur was not unheard of. That is NOT a slight difference. Of course sulphur levels varied from refinery to refinery, and possibly between grades of fuel. This is why some engines (like mine) are still running great. Others had a painful death as early as 30k. Again, do some research.

Now back to the original topic -- additives!

Pablo · May 11, 2007

Quote:

Quote:

but the OP's concerns about oils causing a problem with his cylinders are not well founded.

Click to expand...

First, I never said anything about OIL.

Well actually you did (later in the thread):

Quote:

What's a PCMO?

So, they all contain sulphur, and therefore are probably not safe to use in the Nikasil motors. I don't want to chance it, anyways.

Quote:

PCMO = Passenger Car Motor Oil

What Bruce is trying to say is that all OIL has sulphur due to the add pack, and that the Lucas has similar additives.

My main point being that the oil contains sulfur. I wasn't "ranting". I am aware BMW had a problem with their cylinder liners.

I have some knowledge of S in gasoline. Perhaps "slightly" was not a good word choice. I apologize for that. 1500 ppm sulfur? Wow!

Sulfur Level, in ppm Example
500 Average gasoline sulfur level in many parts of North America
80-150 Typical sulfur levels seen in "lower" sulfur gasolines offered by some retailers.
30 Maximum sulfur level permitted in California, and some other U.S. states. Soon to be the maximum sulfur level permitted in many countries beginning in the next 2 - 5 years.

My opinion is that those additives mentioned won't hurt your engine.

My second opinion is that BMW had something wrong with their alloy composition.

Sulphur in additives?

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