Subway pulls NASCAR sponsorship

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Don't overlook the foreign born element. These folk and their offspring don't relate to football. They like soccer.
I'm with the Moms. I wouldn't want my kid to have scrambled brains so the parents can get their jollies watching it. It's just like the Burt Renoylds prison football movies.

AND, if the kids of today who aren't playing football and therefore will grow up NOT watching it on TV....what are we going to do?????
Ain't that too darn bad.
Anybody who repeats that suggestion of the future and feels bad about it is stupid, stupid, stupid. They'll make more TV for you to watch and your brain will be deader by then so you'll be easier top please so don't sweat it.

May I have another? NASCAR was inflated, oversold and over built.....just like video shops. See, nobody died.
 
Originally Posted By: 123Saab
A bit off topic, but I'd have to be a bit desperate to eat at subway. I can confess to doing it once, and it is not something I remember fondly.

And call me slow if you wish, but as a very casual Nascar watcher I don't understand the "Playoffs" one bit.


Well since we are in confession mode I will admit I like Subway.
 
Question here Captain... Where did it all begin with?? And follow up questions... Do cookie cutter tracks provide for a good race?? Did Indianapolis allow NASCAR there prior to the Brickyard race due to prior ownership not wanting them there??

I am not suggesting getting rid of races in Phoenix, Las Vegas, California, or keeping a race at New Hampshire etc.... I am saying clearly that more races where it ALL BEGAN and pulling those where attendance is struggling is a huge step in the right direction. Ohh and by the way cut a race from Texas as well.
 
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Lots of Americans can't (won't) spend $100+ per person to go watch a NASCAR race, plus hotel and travel.



This is the big thing. "Sports" are a big waste of time, and when you add the exorbitant costs on top of it, it just isn't logical to more and more people.

Everyone tries to move their wares "high end", but they've priced themselves out of it.
 
True indeed. A race weekend can run $1000 for just two people, race tickets, hotel for 2 nights, food, drink and gas. That's a lot of money to a lot of people.
 
Originally Posted By: bbhero
Question here Captain... Where did it all begin with?? And follow up questions... Do cookie cutter tracks provide for a good race?? Did Indianapolis allow NASCAR there prior to the Brickyard race due to prior ownership not wanting them there??

I am not suggesting getting rid of races in Phoenix, Las Vegas, California, or keeping a race at New Hampshire etc.... I am saying clearly that more races where it ALL BEGAN and pulling those where attendance is struggling is a huge step in the right direction. Ohh and by the way cut a race from Texas as well.


Pretty sure I know where it all began. The good old boys used to make trips north in the early 60s as far as central Pa to race the locals and take their prize money. My BIL's dad raced against Lee Petty on a local dirt track in Pa. NASCAR (France family) has only themselves to blame for the state of the sport. I'm not interested enough to check if attendance is better at the SE heritage tracks, do you know? If Richmond is declining it sounds like it isn't. Been there, nice track. Bristol, great track. Pocono, terrible track to spectate but it's still doing OK? Go figger. NASCAR is trying to understand how to appeal to a younger demographic, yeah the old guys are retiring (Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart old guys...really??, remember when Gordon was a skinny kid racing wingless sprints on TV?)

Back O/T, Subway backs out of 1 race and it's a major thing? They do breakfast and apparently consider DD a competitor. Did they say they're done with NASCAR? Yawn....
 
Originally Posted By: bbhero
True indeed. A race weekend can run $1000 for just two people, race tickets, hotel for 2 nights, food, drink and gas. That's a lot of money to a lot of people.
that's it for me I'll be in Daytona but will not spend 350 plus for a ticket
 
Isn't NASCAR where those kit cars race? And pickups, too. Well, sort of pickups. They just bad handling race cars with pickup bodies.

I think they could lower expenses and bring back fans if they raced real stock cars.

They use to say win on Sunday, sell on Monday. Try buying one of those Sunday winners. Start with buying a NASCAR spec engine. Ouch. At least they will tell you what the car model might be so you'll know what it is supposed to be.

I hope NASCAR figures out that if their business can't fit on a smart phone that today's young people won't grow up to be NASCAR fans.
 
Its gotten insane for the average person to travel these days. As others have said, north of 100$ a night for an average hotel, gas, food and tickets..id consider myself middle class in terms of earnings but spending 3 nights in a hotel is alot of money on its own.

Nascar itself isnt too fun. Its clear that the younger crowd isnt as much into it now. Im not into any kind of racing or sports, i cant be bothered to dedicate my time to following something longer then an episode on TV. Might watch hockey religiously in the playoffs but thats about it. I will be working on my property, car or spend my time detailing or on bitog to relax.
 
Have just about lost all interest in sports myself. I was a huge fan of the local pro team in high school and college. After several years of following them closely, they had a thrilling ride from an expected last-place finish to the championships which they lost in a heartbreaking defeat. I took a very long walk that night and never had the same level of enthusiasm, and it has only subsided more over the years.

For me, its not a matter of what's wrong with sports, its what's right. To me, very little. I don't like the thuggish pro players, I don't like the professionalized college players, I don't like the publicly financed stadium rip-off, I don't like pro-football and pro baseball as faux religion. I don't like the hoked up razzle dazzle of the NBA. I also don't like the price. I don't see how any high school kid could afford to buy his own ticket to a major league pro team the way we did in the early 70s.
 
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Originally Posted By: jimbrewer
Have just about lost all interest in sports myself. I was a huge fan of the local pro team in high school and college. After several years of following them closely, they had a thrilling ride from an expected last-place finish to the championships which they lost in a heartbreaking defeat. I took a very long walk that night and never had the same level of enthusiasm, and it has only subsided more over the years.

For me, its not a matter of what's wrong with sports, its what's right. To me, very little. I don't like the thuggish pro players, I don't like the professionalized college players, I don't like the publicly financed stadium rip-off, I don't like pro-football and pro baseball as faux religion. I don't like the hoked up razzle dazzle of the NBA. I also don't like the price. I don't see how any high school kid could afford to buy his own ticket to a major league pro team the way we did in the early 70s.


Jim you have it pegged to the MAX!
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Lots of Americans can't (won't) spend $100+ per person to go watch a NASCAR race, plus hotel and travel.



This is the big thing. "Sports" are a big waste of time, and when you add the exorbitant costs on top of it, it just isn't logical to more and more people.

Everyone tries to move their wares "high end", but they've priced themselves out of it.


They might be a "big waste of time" to you, but some people actually enjoy it. If you're one of those people, watching on TV doesn't compare to being there in-person to experience the sights, smells, and sounds..
 
Again, good bad or indifferent chopping races from places like New Hampshire, Chicago, Kentucky, Indianapolis, Dover would be the right plan of action. Having races at places like South Boston, Lakeland, Hickory NC, Rockingham, and North Wilksboro would be far better than those places. And that is a fact here. Get back to basics. The fools running NASCAR darn near got rid of all the races at Darlington. Stupid. And they moved the Southern 500 which was a dumb move at the time as well. Going back to your straw man argument about Richmond I would state it is a problem with poor management there. Ticket prices too high and no camping allowed are likely culprits for falling attendance. Looking and analyzing at places like Pocono, Phoenix, Michigan, Talladega, California where attendance has either come back up a lot or has been fairly well maintained would be a good idea for NASCAR to do.
 
I really don't think adding or removing races from different locations is the answer, or will change a thing. They brought back Darlington in an attempt to, "Return to NASCAR's roots, and the thrilling day's of yesteryear". And attendance is nowhere what is was before they took it off the schedule. The biggest drawing card for NASCAR is, and has always been Daytona. It's July Firecracker 400, (or whatever they've changed the name to), race attendance is down.... WAY DOWN. Now people make all kinds of lame excuses as to why. "It's too hot in Florida in July.", along with all the other nonsense. Same with the Brickyard 400 at Indy. Say what you will, but the fact of the matter is, they used to pack every seat at Daytona for every race. And NASCAR attendance at Indy was over twice what it is today. There were entire sections of stands there completely empty for the last race.

It's not because it's too hot. Or too expensive. Or because the cars are too heavy for the track. It's because they've changed the racing to the point people don't recognize or relate to it any longer. As far as cost, it was ALWAYS expensive to go to these events. Meals, gas, motels, ticket prices have all paralleled inflation. If you add it all up, it's most likely more affordable today, then it was 40 years ago, when you had to buy your tickets a year in advance. And make your motel reservations just as long into the future, or you couldn't get them. Look at how expensive Super Bowl tickets are. Along with travel and logistics. Do you see any empty seats there?

There is no stability in NASCAR racing anymore. It's much the same with Indy Car Racing. They both change like the weather at the tracks they race on. Every year there is a pack of new rules, new car designs and shapes. Along with some way to slow them down. Or some silly mechanical device like, "Push To Pass". All in some lame attempt to bring excitement to it, they managed to remove with all of their rule changes. Every year there is a different way they determine the champion. Years ago the guy who won the most became champion. Today you need a book an inch thick to figure it out. Then if that isn't enough, they are constantly messing with the way the drivers can race. They can bump, but they can't push. Then they started all of this silly "Restart Zone" nonsense. Then the whole "Green / White / Checkered" foolishness. It has gotten to the point people have to refresh themselves with the rule book before every race. And when it all over, you wind up getting a "Champion" who missed a total of 11 races! And they wonder why attendance is down? Whoever allowed that to happen should be taken out and shot. He probably got promoted instead.

Fans have become sick of all of it, and are staying home. NASCAR races are no longer races. They have turned them into "events". All in some lackluster attempt at trying to revive attendance. Rock concerts. 3-1/2 hours of pre race B.S. Drivers dragging around their wife and kids up and down pit lane. Yellow flags every 5 minutes. Everything except cars going around the track at 200+ MPH. Which is what people paid to come and see in the first place. None of it is working. It's only making matters worse. NASCAR still hasn't figured any of this out yet. They keep floundering every year, making it worse in the process. They way they're going, it won't be long before they kill off what little of it there is left. Bill France Sr. is most likely wearing out the suit he was buried in, from turning over in his grave.
 
When you leave places behind that helped build up the sport to BEGIN WITH.... Nothing good happens. Period. End of story. Along this line of thinking it would be good to get rid of this chase format, get rid of stage racing and unnecessary late race cautions. Economic factors are in play here. 80% of this nation lives paycheck to paycheck... $1000-1200 dollars is a decent amount of money to many people in this country to go see any event. Ohh and Darlington looked to be pretty much sold out the other night... Granted the "old" front stretch now the back stretch stands have been cut down in size quite a bit. But the new front stretch has added stands as well. And they were close to full the other night.
 
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Originally Posted By: bbhero
.....80% of this nation lives paycheck to paycheck.........


Here I'll agree with you. We have descended into a nation of over mortgaged, economic idiots who couldn't hold on to money if it was glued to them. Most of which don't have a weeks pay in the bank, and live on credit. But the problem is that doesn't stop them from buying most every other thing they see. Be it new cars, the latest I-Phone or X-box, 65" TV's, or most anything else for that matter. So why would it stop them from attending a NASCAR race? Look at Formula 1. At the last race in Shanghai China, the announcers commented that it cost the average person in attendance there a months pay to attend. Based on F1 ticket prices, and the average income of that country. The stands were almost full. And you could tell most all of them were far from wealthy. But they wanted to be there.

The bottom line is if people really want something, they'll find a way to get it. They don't want NASCAR anymore. The interest is no longer there. They would rather spend their money elsewhere. If you watch some of these older races from the 70's and 80's, you can easily see the reason why. The excitement is gone. Back then packed grandstands weren't glued to their seats. They were standing for half of the race, fearing they would miss something. Today the few that are there spend more time at the concession stands, then they do in the grandstands, because of all the yellow flags and delays that put them to sleep.

I used to be amazed at how fast they were able to clean up a multi car wreck, and get back to green flag racing. Today they screw around for what seems like forever. And I could go on and on. But the point is there is an all but endless list of reasons why people are turning away from NASCAR. And cost is near the bottom of that list.
 
Cost is a bigger reason than you think here. Far bigger in fact. It may not be number one but it's right up there. Getting back to basics would be a huge step in the right direction for NASCAR and other sports as well.
 
Originally Posted By: bbhero
Cost is a bigger reason than you think here. Far bigger in fact. It may not be number one but it's right up there. Getting back to basics would be a huge step in the right direction for NASCAR and other sports as well.


How much is a grandstand ticket at the Daytona 500 today? How much was that exact same seat 35 years ago, when the stands were packed full? Now factor in inflation over those same 35 years. What is the difference? I'll bet it isn't as much as you think. Especially when compared to wages, along with the prices of today's new vehicles, and most other durable goods, over what they were back then. Remember in the last 35 years, not only NASCAR tickets have risen in price.
 
Originally Posted By: bbhero
Again, good bad or indifferent chopping races from places like New Hampshire, Chicago, Kentucky, Indianapolis, Dover would be the right plan of action. Having races at places like South Boston, Lakeland, Hickory NC, Rockingham, and North Wilksboro would be far better than those places. And that is a fact here. Get back to basics. The fools running NASCAR darn near got rid of all the races at Darlington. Stupid. And they moved the Southern 500 which was a dumb move at the time as well. Going back to your straw man argument about Richmond I would state it is a problem with poor management there. Ticket prices too high and no camping allowed are likely culprits for falling attendance. Looking and analyzing at places like Pocono, Phoenix, Michigan, Talladega, California where attendance has either come back up a lot or has been fairly well maintained would be a good idea for NASCAR to do.


Not using Richmond as a straw man, someone mentioned it. We went to Richmond twice, drove 6 hours to get there, camped 50 miles out. No idea ticket prices now but in the late 90s early 2000s it wasn't pocket change for a working family of 4 but we wanted to go so we made it happen. Is a ticket relatively more expensive now than 20 years ago? If it's all about the tailgate party I wouldn't know.

This obviously means something to you and you have definite ideas about how to fix it, that's great and hope FRANCECAR gets it figured out so it doesn't disappear. You can be pretty sure they're analyzing like crazy and making these changes to try to stop the bleed but they haven't got it. When it got to be REALLY BIG business they lost the magic.
 
Originally Posted By: AZjeff
.....and hope FRANCECAR gets it figured out so it doesn't disappear. You can be pretty sure they're analyzing like crazy and making these changes to try to stop the bleed but they haven't got it. When it got to be REALLY BIG business they lost the magic.


If you analyze family run businesses that have been parlayed into fortunes in this country. Many are heavily damaged, or completely destroyed in the third generation. The father starts it based on a good idea, hard work, good marketing, and sound management. The son then continues in his footsteps, and turns it into a multimillion dollar empire. Then the grand kids come in, sucking on their silver spoons, never having worked a day in their lives, and run it straight into the ground. That's NASCAR in a nutshell.
 
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