Still issues with my series 60

Joined
Jun 8, 2012
Messages
171
Location
youngstown, ohio
The engine has about 170k on it now. And it’s still shearing oil. I’ve had numerous UOA’s done which I can post from Blackstone and one from Polaris. The engine doesn’t have a dilution issue. So it seems to be coming down to heat even though the oil temps never go over 215 and that’s when the engines in a hard pull working and it takes a bit to get it there. Typical road temps are 175-180 for oil.

What I have done so far. The engine needed cam bearings already. At 100k we had bad samples coming back so I put in new cam bearings, shimmed the oil pressure regulator, changed the oil type and fuel filter type. Fuel filter was because I wasn’t getting any mileage out of the fleet guard. When I did the cam bearings I did the rod bearings as well. They weren’t bad but a couple had grooves in them, we contributed that to the shrapnel left from the engine grenading, so for piece of mind we swapped them, mains looked great.

The engine was broke in with Phillips 66 conventional as well as Chevron 15W40 conventional (switched brands to see if it still shears). When I did the cam bearings I switched to Kendall DXA (suggested by Phillips 66 as synthetic has better shear properties). The truck uses about 1/2-3/4 gallon in 10-15k miles and runs 58-62 psi oil pressure.

I’m considering an oil stabilizer to help. An engine builder friend from Australia said 20w50 is a better weight for high horsepower applications but it’s not readily available in the states unless you’re in the south. So an alternative thought was oil stabilization. I consider Lucas but my gut tells me not to. Doing some readin today it was suggested to use 80w90 gear lube instead of Lucas cause of the additive package in gear lube that Lucas does not have.

I reached out to Schaffer oil and the rep was pretty ignorant to be honest. He didn’t want any new customers and stated that he was struggling to keep the clients happy that he had. This has been a while but maybe that has changed. It has better shear properties than Kendall so I thought I’d consider it.

Any input on schaffers or the gear lube option?
 
If you absolutely want to try something to thicken it up Schaeffer 132 would be my choice. I use it in a lot of stuff. I would still be curious what is shearing the oil though. I would suggest a call to American Fleet in Springfield, MO. They are a VERY good 60 Series shop. I was just in there today actually getting an accessory drive seal for part of my serpentine belt conversion.

I will also provide you with my Schaeffer rep if you need it. Please PM me for his contact info if you want.
 
If you absolutely want to try something to thicken it up Schaeffer 132 would be my choice. I use it in a lot of stuff. I would still be curious what is shearing the oil though. I would suggest a call to American Fleet in Springfield, MO. They are a VERY good 60 Series shop. I was just in there today actually getting an accessory drive seal for part of my serpentine belt conversion.

I will also provide you with my Schaeffer rep if you need it. Please PM me for his contact info if you want.
All American builds engines to Detroit specs and this is not. They’re really no help at all with this situation.
 
How much is your oil shearing? If your oil starts at a high 15 and goes down to 10 then that's a good chunk but some shearing is going to happen regardless. CK-4 spec is what you want to stay with since older specs will have worse shearing. Stick with a 15w-40 Full Synthetic as well. If that fails then get some conventional oil and change it sooner.
 
Is there a difference in CF ratings for HD and non HD applications? I haven’t seen this oil locally but Walmart says my local Walmart has it
None really. It's just not suitable for use in very modern stuff with emission equipment. But if it doesn't need to pass emissions then who cares anyway. The 50 grade will help with shearing. It has an hths of 4.5, 15w-40's are 4.1. And it has a similarly low vii of 160 compared to 140 of 15w-40's which is also good,
 
How much is your oil shearing? If your oil starts at a high 15 and goes down to 10 then that's a good chunk but some shearing is going to happen regardless. CK-4 spec is what you want to stay with since older specs will have worse shearing. Stick with a 15w-40 Full Synthetic as well. If that fails then get some conventional oil and change it sooner.
You’re pretty close. I sent a virgin sample in, it’s starting around 14.5 shearing to 11-12, that may not seem like much, but it does it almost immediately after a change then gradual for the rest of the life of the oil. Since switching to Kendall it has been slightly better but still not staying stable. Don’t mind the silicon that’s another issue I can’t seem to resolve even with new air filters
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Seems to me that is just too much from a series 60. And it's causing excessive pressures and killing the oil.
Your avg that you posted at cSt 100c is 12.085. That is a very, very thick 30 viscosity. I do see the shearing you speak of though & some of that may just be the nature of the beast. However, when an oil analysis results in a grade lower it is an acceptable outcome. I've seen some 15w-40's start out in the 15+ & that would be my recommendation or reduce oil drain intervals. 13,000 miles would put you at 12.68 which is right at the bottom end of a 40 if that would give you piece of mind. Keep on truckin!
 
Seems to me that is just too much from a series 60. And it's causing excessive pressures and killing the oil.
I would disagree. It is a good running engine but I did more with my old engine and never had oil shearing issues. A 14 liter engine came factory at 575hp ratings. Some even dynod from factory at close to 575 RWHP.
 
Your avg that you posted at cSt 100c is 12.085. That is a very, very thick 30 viscosity. I do see the shearing you speak of though & some of that may just be the nature of the beast. However, when an oil analysis results in a grade lower it is an acceptable outcome. I've seen some 15w-40's start out in the 15+ & that would be my recommendation or reduce oil drain intervals. 13,000 miles would put you at 12.68 which is right at the bottom end of a 40 if that would give you piece of mind. Keep on truckin!
There is no consistency to the shearing. I’m sure you noticed some are 11.3 which I believe is a 10w30 viscosity correct? Also, I re read your post, what is your recommendation? I’ve already reduced intervals from 20k to 12-14k
 
@thejudges69 can you re-shim the oil pump to drop your oil pressure a little. I wonder if the oil pressure is contributing to the shearing.

I’m with @56Cummins if you can’t resolve the shearing then I’d use the Mystik 15w50. I’ve got their 15w40 in my Cummins Ram currently.

On the silicone side I’m with Blackstone. Have you checked your air intake hoses? Have you switched air filters.

Just my $0.02
 
What is the engine in a semi, boat or a motorhome? Are the wear numbers bad? The higher the output and the harder an engine is run the higher the wear.
 
@thejudges69 can you re-shim the oil pump to drop your oil pressure a little. I wonder if the oil pressure is contributing to the shearing.

I’m with @56Cummins if you can’t resolve the shearing then I’d use the Mystik 15w50. I’ve got their 15w40 in my Cummins Ram currently.

On the silicone side I’m with Blackstone. Have you checked your air intake hoses? Have you switched air filters.

Just my $0.02
You don’t shim the oil pump on a Detroit other than to get proper gear lash. The pump is already right at the end of the gear lash spec which I believe is .008 lash and I’m a smidge over that with no shims. Adding shims would increase the lash and you don’t want that. I did shim the pressure regulator to increase the pressure. That has helped with the wearing in the top end of the engine. It didn’t increase drastically but added about 5-6psi
 
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