Station wagons. Coming back or still bad memories?
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Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Station wagons are lower and have lower roof lines inside for fitting bulky things compared to a crossover like a CRV or a RAV4, so what purpose do they serve?
Better fuel economy, and better handling.
Station wagons are lower and have lower roof lines inside for fitting bulky things compared to a crossover like a CRV or a RAV4, so what purpose do they serve?
Better fuel economy, and better handling.
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Station wagons are lower and have lower roof lines inside for fitting bulky things compared to a crossover like a CRV or a RAV4, so what purpose do they serve?
None, that's why they've vanished from the roads.
What purpose does a crossover SUV serve?
Save to appeal to the pretensions of the owner because it's "cool"...
Compared with a crossover, the wagon is lighter, with a lower CG, and cheaper. So, faster, better handling, better braking and better MPG. A complete winning combination.
Still can't figure out why people buy SUVs...
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Station wagons are lower and have lower roof lines inside for fitting bulky things compared to a crossover like a CRV or a RAV4, so what purpose do they serve?
None, that's why they've vanished from the roads.
What purpose does a crossover SUV serve?
Save to appeal to the pretensions of the owner because it's "cool"...
Compared with a crossover, the wagon is lighter, with a lower CG, and cheaper. So, faster, better handling, better braking and better MPG. A complete winning combination.
Still can't figure out why people buy SUVs...
I see a few station wagons making/trying to make a come back such as the Buick Regal...Subaru, BMW, M-B, Volvo have always had them here in the U.S. but, Canada seems to like them more and for good reason.
However here in the U.S., SUV/CUV are all the rage. They're just more masculine and what most Americans seem to want. I don't particularly like SUV/CUV but, they're OK. I still like a compact to midsize family sedan and my next choice is a subcompact to compact hatchback(5 dr). To each their own!
However here in the U.S., SUV/CUV are all the rage. They're just more masculine and what most Americans seem to want. I don't particularly like SUV/CUV but, they're OK. I still like a compact to midsize family sedan and my next choice is a subcompact to compact hatchback(5 dr). To each their own!
I like Camry wagons, room inside but lower profile
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Originally Posted By: Astro14
What purpose does a SUV serve?
Soccer mom "bling". The bigger the SUV,the more money her husband makes
What purpose does a SUV serve?
Soccer mom "bling". The bigger the SUV,the more money her husband makes
Originally Posted By: Astro14
What purpose does a crossover SUV serve?
Save to appeal to the pretensions of the owner because it's "cool"...
Compared with a crossover, the wagon is lighter, with a lower CG, and cheaper. So, faster, better handling, better braking and better MPG. A complete winning combination.
Still can't figure out why people buy SUVs...
From my point of view, my small SUVs have been very comfortable for access/egress...I used to have a CRX and would basically fall into that thing. My daughter's Impreza and even my wife's Avalon are sort of a scrunch/fold operation for me. Of course, some big SUVs I have to climb into, which I don't really like, either. You could probably argue that the RAV6 and FXT shouldn't even be called SUVs as they are not truck-based, but I think that distinction fell by the wayside a while ago.
I guess my '96 Outback was called a wagon, but maybe would be a "crossover" these days because it was jacked up somewhat compared to a Legacy wagon? I would guess the ride height of that thing was pretty similar to what I have driven since, and I can't say my little "SUVs" had any less utility for me than the wagon. A small SUV that is long enough to stow a loaded double ski bag with part of the rear seat folded down will generally do it for me.
I definitely appreciate having more ground clearance with the snow we get here, a few times when it has snowed at home when I was away I would start to get a warm fuzzy about my wife and daughter having the Impreza to get out in if they had to until I remembered how low that thing is.
I don't rule out wagons a priori and test drove a V6 Passat and a Volvo turbo wagon in the past...the VW just seemed sluggish to me for some reason and that Volvo taught me what bad turbo lag was all about. Hit the gas, count to one, then go like heck. Not my cup o tea!
What purpose does a crossover SUV serve?
Save to appeal to the pretensions of the owner because it's "cool"...
Compared with a crossover, the wagon is lighter, with a lower CG, and cheaper. So, faster, better handling, better braking and better MPG. A complete winning combination.
Still can't figure out why people buy SUVs...
From my point of view, my small SUVs have been very comfortable for access/egress...I used to have a CRX and would basically fall into that thing. My daughter's Impreza and even my wife's Avalon are sort of a scrunch/fold operation for me. Of course, some big SUVs I have to climb into, which I don't really like, either. You could probably argue that the RAV6 and FXT shouldn't even be called SUVs as they are not truck-based, but I think that distinction fell by the wayside a while ago.
I guess my '96 Outback was called a wagon, but maybe would be a "crossover" these days because it was jacked up somewhat compared to a Legacy wagon? I would guess the ride height of that thing was pretty similar to what I have driven since, and I can't say my little "SUVs" had any less utility for me than the wagon. A small SUV that is long enough to stow a loaded double ski bag with part of the rear seat folded down will generally do it for me.
I definitely appreciate having more ground clearance with the snow we get here, a few times when it has snowed at home when I was away I would start to get a warm fuzzy about my wife and daughter having the Impreza to get out in if they had to until I remembered how low that thing is.
I don't rule out wagons a priori and test drove a V6 Passat and a Volvo turbo wagon in the past...the VW just seemed sluggish to me for some reason and that Volvo taught me what bad turbo lag was all about. Hit the gas, count to one, then go like heck. Not my cup o tea!
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Station wagons are lower and have lower roof lines inside for fitting bulky things compared to a crossover like a CRV or a RAV4, so what purpose do they serve?
None, that's why they've vanished from the roads.
What purpose does a crossover SUV serve?
Save to appeal to the pretensions of the owner because it's "cool"...
Compared with a crossover, the wagon is lighter, with a lower CG, and cheaper. So, faster, better handling, better braking and better MPG. A complete winning combination.
Still can't figure out why people buy SUVs...
People like the superior vision and entry/exit of a CUV. Also a major bonus for family of 4 is CUV's offer 7 passenger capability albeit squished to take friends. The better MPG is getting blurred as the modern wagons seem to be upscale and very few economy offerings exist like CUV's. My sister in law picked up a Nissan Rogue 7 passenger for $24k. It achieves 25MPG city and 33 highway. This is slightly better then a Subaru Outback. The only economy offering it seems for wagons are VW and Subaru to a degree.
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Station wagons are lower and have lower roof lines inside for fitting bulky things compared to a crossover like a CRV or a RAV4, so what purpose do they serve?
None, that's why they've vanished from the roads.
What purpose does a crossover SUV serve?
Save to appeal to the pretensions of the owner because it's "cool"...
Compared with a crossover, the wagon is lighter, with a lower CG, and cheaper. So, faster, better handling, better braking and better MPG. A complete winning combination.
Still can't figure out why people buy SUVs...
People like the superior vision and entry/exit of a CUV. Also a major bonus for family of 4 is CUV's offer 7 passenger capability albeit squished to take friends. The better MPG is getting blurred as the modern wagons seem to be upscale and very few economy offerings exist like CUV's. My sister in law picked up a Nissan Rogue 7 passenger for $24k. It achieves 25MPG city and 33 highway. This is slightly better then a Subaru Outback. The only economy offering it seems for wagons are VW and Subaru to a degree.
Man... When I was young I acquired my Grandmother's 1967 Ford Country Squire wagon. 390, white, woodgrain and a red interior. Wish I kept that car. Would have been awesome to modernize it a little into a great driver.
I drive a Suburban now but I think about that wagon a lot.
I drive a Suburban now but I think about that wagon a lot.
Originally Posted By: PimTac
That second one is an abomination.
Really, you don't like the Sportbrake? I think it looks pretty darn good, actually.
That second one is an abomination.
Really, you don't like the Sportbrake? I think it looks pretty darn good, actually.
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
.... but you can't call them station wagons. They now require a different name like SUV or sports wagon or just about anything but a station wagon.
I have an 03 4Runner that I consider a 4-door pickup with a very good camper shell but really it's just a variation on the station wagon theme.
Don't ever tell a Dodge Magnum owner they have a nice station wagon, they get rather upset about it...
.... but you can't call them station wagons. They now require a different name like SUV or sports wagon or just about anything but a station wagon.
I have an 03 4Runner that I consider a 4-door pickup with a very good camper shell but really it's just a variation on the station wagon theme.
Don't ever tell a Dodge Magnum owner they have a nice station wagon, they get rather upset about it...
i own one:
the mazda5.
it is a mini-minivan 6-seater (ok, ok, 2 seats reserved to tiny adults or kids)
or
a mazda3 on "'rhoids"
on wish list, another one-off wagon:
prius v, which has the same footprint as my mazda5, but better chair distribution. and it's a hybrid.
mazda5 last run is 2015
prius v last run is 2017
the mazda5.
it is a mini-minivan 6-seater (ok, ok, 2 seats reserved to tiny adults or kids)
or
a mazda3 on "'rhoids"
on wish list, another one-off wagon:
prius v, which has the same footprint as my mazda5, but better chair distribution. and it's a hybrid.
mazda5 last run is 2015
prius v last run is 2017
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Station wagons are lower and have lower roof lines inside for fitting bulky things compared to a crossover like a CRV or a RAV4, so what purpose do they serve?
None, that's why they've vanished from the roads.
What purpose does a crossover SUV serve?
Save to appeal to the pretensions of the owner because it's "cool"...
Compared with a crossover, the wagon is lighter, with a lower CG, and cheaper. So, faster, better handling, better braking and better MPG. A complete winning combination.
Still can't figure out why people buy SUVs...
Because people mistakenly think they're cool....
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Station wagons are lower and have lower roof lines inside for fitting bulky things compared to a crossover like a CRV or a RAV4, so what purpose do they serve?
None, that's why they've vanished from the roads.
What purpose does a crossover SUV serve?
Save to appeal to the pretensions of the owner because it's "cool"...
Compared with a crossover, the wagon is lighter, with a lower CG, and cheaper. So, faster, better handling, better braking and better MPG. A complete winning combination.
Still can't figure out why people buy SUVs...
Because people mistakenly think they're cool....
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Station wagons are lower and have lower roof lines inside for fitting bulky things compared to a crossover like a CRV or a RAV4, so what purpose do they serve?
Both my cars have ~35 cuft of room behind the back seats, but the dimensions of the space is within a few inches of each other.
The Focus does have a deeper, slightly narrower and shorter cargo space, but its still tall enough I can fit my mountain bike with its 5" travel fork inside upright, along with both my kids bikes.
A bonus of being lower is the roof racks are easier to use, which I do fairly often. The CRV requires standing on the door frames and tires to strap stuff down.
For a DD for me, the Focus is the clear winner with 1/3 better mileage, its fun on the turns and I got second place overall in our clubs autocross championship this year. Tires are cheap too. For a car designed in 1997 it does OK.
The only real draw back of the Focus for family trips is that it's got less passenger space than the CRV and the CRV has a much better designed dash and interior for phones, maps, snacks, and other stuff. Also the rear glass opening is very useful but most SUV's have lost that utility now anyways.
Our CRV replacement is likely going to be an Outback as its the most wagon like in terms of mileage(almost equal to the Focus), and its rated to tow 2700lbs which is enough for us.
Station wagons are lower and have lower roof lines inside for fitting bulky things compared to a crossover like a CRV or a RAV4, so what purpose do they serve?
Both my cars have ~35 cuft of room behind the back seats, but the dimensions of the space is within a few inches of each other.
The Focus does have a deeper, slightly narrower and shorter cargo space, but its still tall enough I can fit my mountain bike with its 5" travel fork inside upright, along with both my kids bikes.
A bonus of being lower is the roof racks are easier to use, which I do fairly often. The CRV requires standing on the door frames and tires to strap stuff down.
For a DD for me, the Focus is the clear winner with 1/3 better mileage, its fun on the turns and I got second place overall in our clubs autocross championship this year. Tires are cheap too. For a car designed in 1997 it does OK.
The only real draw back of the Focus for family trips is that it's got less passenger space than the CRV and the CRV has a much better designed dash and interior for phones, maps, snacks, and other stuff. Also the rear glass opening is very useful but most SUV's have lost that utility now anyways.
Our CRV replacement is likely going to be an Outback as its the most wagon like in terms of mileage(almost equal to the Focus), and its rated to tow 2700lbs which is enough for us.
Originally Posted By: PimTac
This kind of segues from another thread where I commented that in my opinion the station wagon is coming back. I’m old enough to remember the giant Olds Vista Cruiser and the Fords with the peeling fake wood trim on the exterior.
I saw a article on www.caranddriver.com regarding the new Buick Regal. Most station wagons today are crossovers like the Subaru Outback, Mazda CX-9, Volvo XC, and so forth. Mazda will be building a new station wagon style crossover in Alabama when their new assembly plant opens.
So what say you all? Would you buy one? Have you owned one? Your predictions on this subject are welcome.
Then you're not old enough to remember them when they were brand new - and you saw the skyline of New York for the first time through the spotless window of an Olds Vista Cruiser while enjoying the new air conditioning...or the gleaming paint and perfect wood trim on the Country Squire your dad brought home. First new car you had ever seen.
Would I buy a wagon now?
Of course. Better mileage, handling, braking, and ride than an SUV with the same technology. It's unfair to compare a 1970s wagon with a modern CUV. But a modern wagon is a far better car than a modern SUV. The extra height of the SUV adds drag, raises the CofG, and requires a stiffer suspension for equal roll stability, degrading ride.
The SUV is a miracle of modern marketing. You "think" you need that ride height. You "think" you need 4WD (you don't but the ads filled witht glorious shots of SUVs bashing through deep snow have you convinced otherwise). You "think" you need to pay an extra $10K or more for the "safety" of a vehicle whose safety is compromised by its very design: taller, heavier, poorer handling, poorer braking.
I like trucks, for genuine truck purposes. But I prefer cars. Cars that drive well.
So, yeah, I own two wagons. They're cars, with all the advantages of a car (sporty, fast, good MPG, good handling, nice ride, cheaper to buy and own) with all the room of an SUV, but none of the negative consequences of an SUV.
This kind of segues from another thread where I commented that in my opinion the station wagon is coming back. I’m old enough to remember the giant Olds Vista Cruiser and the Fords with the peeling fake wood trim on the exterior.
I saw a article on www.caranddriver.com regarding the new Buick Regal. Most station wagons today are crossovers like the Subaru Outback, Mazda CX-9, Volvo XC, and so forth. Mazda will be building a new station wagon style crossover in Alabama when their new assembly plant opens.
So what say you all? Would you buy one? Have you owned one? Your predictions on this subject are welcome.
Then you're not old enough to remember them when they were brand new - and you saw the skyline of New York for the first time through the spotless window of an Olds Vista Cruiser while enjoying the new air conditioning...or the gleaming paint and perfect wood trim on the Country Squire your dad brought home. First new car you had ever seen.
Would I buy a wagon now?
Of course. Better mileage, handling, braking, and ride than an SUV with the same technology. It's unfair to compare a 1970s wagon with a modern CUV. But a modern wagon is a far better car than a modern SUV. The extra height of the SUV adds drag, raises the CofG, and requires a stiffer suspension for equal roll stability, degrading ride.
The SUV is a miracle of modern marketing. You "think" you need that ride height. You "think" you need 4WD (you don't but the ads filled witht glorious shots of SUVs bashing through deep snow have you convinced otherwise). You "think" you need to pay an extra $10K or more for the "safety" of a vehicle whose safety is compromised by its very design: taller, heavier, poorer handling, poorer braking.
I like trucks, for genuine truck purposes. But I prefer cars. Cars that drive well.
So, yeah, I own two wagons. They're cars, with all the advantages of a car (sporty, fast, good MPG, good handling, nice ride, cheaper to buy and own) with all the room of an SUV, but none of the negative consequences of an SUV.
The thing I really hate about my Tahoe is the rear hatch, instead of a tailgate that the old station wagons had. Hate bumping my head on the hatch, and it makes it much harder to load, and carry longer stuff not having a tailgate.
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Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Station wagons are lower and have lower roof lines inside for fitting bulky things compared to a crossover like a CRV or a RAV4, so what purpose do they serve?
None, that's why they've vanished from the roads.
What purpose does a crossover SUV serve?
Save to appeal to the pretensions of the owner because it's "cool"...
Compared with a crossover, the wagon is lighter, with a lower CG, and cheaper. So, faster, better handling, better braking and better MPG. A complete winning combination.
Still can't figure out why people buy SUVs...
I prefer the higher ride height. Awd helps in inclement weather. And, because I can choose which vehicle to purchase and drive.
You have a pickup truck. Why? The Volvo V70 says XC. Does that not mean cross country or crossover depending on what drive you have?
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Station wagons are lower and have lower roof lines inside for fitting bulky things compared to a crossover like a CRV or a RAV4, so what purpose do they serve?
None, that's why they've vanished from the roads.
What purpose does a crossover SUV serve?
Save to appeal to the pretensions of the owner because it's "cool"...
Compared with a crossover, the wagon is lighter, with a lower CG, and cheaper. So, faster, better handling, better braking and better MPG. A complete winning combination.
Still can't figure out why people buy SUVs...
I prefer the higher ride height. Awd helps in inclement weather. And, because I can choose which vehicle to purchase and drive.
You have a pickup truck. Why? The Volvo V70 says XC. Does that not mean cross country or crossover depending on what drive you have?
Station wagons are extremely popular in Finland, Norway, Sweden, i am amazed honestly by how many station wagons i see each time i go to Finland to see my family!
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Still can't figure out why people buy SUVs...
Ground clearance is the only thing I can think of. If you live where it snows a lot, it can come in handy.
My RWD car with winter tires does pretty well in snow, but if there is quite a bit of it, I'm going to be plowing it with my bumper, and I won't get very far.
Still can't figure out why people buy SUVs...
Ground clearance is the only thing I can think of. If you live where it snows a lot, it can come in handy.
My RWD car with winter tires does pretty well in snow, but if there is quite a bit of it, I'm going to be plowing it with my bumper, and I won't get very far.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: PimTac
That second one is an abomination.
Really, you don't like the Sportbrake? I think it looks pretty darn good, actually.
Not too bad from that angle but the previous picture was not flattering to me.
Originally Posted By: PimTac
That second one is an abomination.
Really, you don't like the Sportbrake? I think it looks pretty darn good, actually.
Not too bad from that angle but the previous picture was not flattering to me.
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