What oils display a starburst energy conserving rated label, AND are high TBN capable of long drain intervals?
starburst and TBN
- Thread starter wileyE
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Pennzoil has the symbol, don't know about the TBN
AMSOIL XL5W20, XL5W30, XL10W30 for warranted 7500 normal or severe miles/6 months or longer if indicated in owners manual or oil life monitor. http://eolcs.api.org/DisplayLicenseInfo2.asp?LicenseNo=0995 . Many UOA's here at BiTOG indicate even longer drain intervals possible.
thanks Tim, XL line did come to mind, But I'm thinking TBN and interval like amsoils non-api certified oils can run.
Just wondering if there is a mutually excluding relationship between tbn and starburst lowered coefficient of friction. In other words, can you have your cake and eat it too.
Just wondering if there is a mutually excluding relationship between tbn and starburst lowered coefficient of friction. In other words, can you have your cake and eat it too.
no.
what you can do is take diesel oil and load it up with friction modifiers though!
or perhaps castrol syntec 0W30 with a solid friction modifier like moly disulfide or boron nitride.
the only off the shelf oils that comes close to your desired function without additives are Syntec 0W30, M1 0W40, Amsoil TSO
what you can do is take diesel oil and load it up with friction modifiers though!
or perhaps castrol syntec 0W30 with a solid friction modifier like moly disulfide or boron nitride.
the only off the shelf oils that comes close to your desired function without additives are Syntec 0W30, M1 0W40, Amsoil TSO
I prefer to run Amsoil's non certified, higher TBN oils, their EaO oil filters and if available their EaA air filters. That way I feel I'm putting in the best oil with the best filtration (without the expense and hassle of By-pass filtration) and only have to change the oil once a year (about 12,000 miles for me) and get a free parts and labor warranty should the oil or filter fail. With the XL line, I'd have to change twice a year.
I also feel the noncertified Amsoil products should give better gas mileage than their XL lines, as the chemical base oil is much more uniform than their group III petroleum synthetic XL line. I think the only reason that Amsoil developed and certified their XL line is for bidding purposes that require those certifications and to be cost competitive in bidding.
I also feel the noncertified Amsoil products should give better gas mileage than their XL lines, as the chemical base oil is much more uniform than their group III petroleum synthetic XL line. I think the only reason that Amsoil developed and certified their XL line is for bidding purposes that require those certifications and to be cost competitive in bidding.
Starburst energy conserving is not essential.
Agreed, but most new car manuals specify it.
Okay. I wonder if warranty requires it, or just the SM/GF-4.
But a reasonable person could ask if you're really providing your engine with any better protection. Even with the Ea0 filters, the more miles you drive on the oil, the more particles in the 2-10 micron range will be in the oil. And studies have shown that these particles also contribute significantly to engine wear.
Using the same Ea0 filters, it could be the case that changing the oil twice as often with SM/GF-4 oil is better for your engine than running the expensive hign TBN oils for twice as long. Further SM/GF-4 are tested to provide better fuel economy, all those that are uncertified can only claim they do.
Of course if you drive vehicles with engines that are of old archaic designs that require boatloads of ZDDP to drive around the block like TallPaul, the cost/benefit ratio may be significantly different.
"What do you get when you multiply six by nine? - In base 13."
42?
42?
It's simple though. Just add zddp until you can smell it out the tailpipe.Quote:
Of course if you drive vehicles with engines that are of old archaic designs that require boatloads of ZDDP to drive around the block like TallPaul, the cost/benefit ratio may be significantly different.
Now your posting blind faith with no proof. Certifications are a method of establishing that an oil meets a predetermined standard. by not submitting to the standard we can assume one of two things. The oil does not meet the standard(fuel economy sequence for example) or the blender thinks they can market a non standard product and convince them that their product is better through intensive marketing but no real standardized third party testing.
Why?
As I have pointed out in the past, PAO base stocks do not guarantee fuel economy benefits over a convnetional ILSAC GF-4 oil.
Remember, the GF-4 Sequence VIB Fuel Economy reference oil is a PAO basestock formulation with all the benefits of uniform molecular size.
And any dino/conventional oil with the GF-4 certification has beat this opil in the test sequence!
No problem. The Amsoil website states "APPLICATIONS
AMSOIL Synthetic 5w30 Motor Oil is recommended for gasoline engines, diesel engines (API CF, ACEA B5) and other applications requiring any of the listed worldwide specifications:
* API SM/CF, SL, SJ ...
* ILSAC GF-4, 3 ... " etc.
And they back up their recommendations with a written parts and labor warranty should their oil fail.
Amsoil just chooses not certify through API. Reasons at https://www.amsoil.com/dealer/askamsoil/api_licensing/api_licensing.aspx . Also just because an oil is API/ILSAC certified oil, does not necessarily mean it will meet those specs off the shelf. I remember reading an article a year or so when samples were pulled off the shelf and did not meet those certification specs. The important thing for me is that Amsoil will warranty their oils up to 25,000 miles/1 year for my applications. Most others don't or only for up to 4,000 miles/4 months. Mobil 1 EP will for up to 15,000 normal miles, but doesn't compare as well as Amsoil in comparison testing.
AMSOIL Synthetic 5w30 Motor Oil is recommended for gasoline engines, diesel engines (API CF, ACEA B5) and other applications requiring any of the listed worldwide specifications:
* API SM/CF, SL, SJ ...
* ILSAC GF-4, 3 ... " etc.
And they back up their recommendations with a written parts and labor warranty should their oil fail.
Amsoil just chooses not certify through API. Reasons at https://www.amsoil.com/dealer/askamsoil/api_licensing/api_licensing.aspx . Also just because an oil is API/ILSAC certified oil, does not necessarily mean it will meet those specs off the shelf. I remember reading an article a year or so when samples were pulled off the shelf and did not meet those certification specs. The important thing for me is that Amsoil will warranty their oils up to 25,000 miles/1 year for my applications. Most others don't or only for up to 4,000 miles/4 months. Mobil 1 EP will for up to 15,000 normal miles, but doesn't compare as well as Amsoil in comparison testing.
Throwing a statement out like that clearly shows a non-objective mindset. If I were you, I'd find that article so we can see what the non-compliance rate actually is, and more importantly, exactly what constitutes non-compliance.
Further, part of the requirement of being allowed to put the API starburst certification symbol on one's oils is that it will be subjected to random off-the-shelf sampling as part of a quality control effort, so it's not as bleak a picture as you're painting here.
http://www.api.org/certifications/engineoil/forms/upload/PartCFillable.pdf
...
15. API or API's representative may make periodic examinations or tests of the
Licensee's product by selecting samples from the marketplace and submitting them to a
testing facility for evaluation to determine whether the products comply with specified
requirements. If requested by API, the Licensee shall send samples of the Licensee’s
product, at API’s expense, directly to a designated test facility for evaluation in the time
frame specified by API.
16. Licensee agrees that any sampling, inspections or tests conducted by API are
designed only to verify compliance with API requirements and do not relieve the licensee
of its responsibility to ensure the quality of its products in the marketplace.
17. API's representatives shall, after giving reasonable notice, have access to facilities
utilized by the Licensee to manufacture, process or store products displaying the marks.
The right of API's representative to obtain free access to these facilities shall not be
conditioned upon the execution by him or API of any agreement, waiver or release
which in any way purports to affect his legal rights or the rights or obligations of API.
Any such document executed in contravention of this provision shall be without force or
effect. However, API shall direct its representative to exercise due care in complying
with any plant safety regulations which may be generally applicable to the
manufacturer's plant personnel.
...
Supertech Conventional has something that Amsoil premium oils don't. Certification licensing and confirmation of compliance that can result in revocation of licensing that you speak of.
The quality of an unlicensed unmonitored oil blenders product should be accepted because the blender says so?
PS- I am not stating that AMSOIL is Shady or the product is bad, I am stating that you put a lot more faith in their PR and marketing than I see reason to.
The quality of an unlicensed unmonitored oil blenders product should be accepted because the blender says so?
PS- I am not stating that AMSOIL is Shady or the product is bad, I am stating that you put a lot more faith in their PR and marketing than I see reason to.
I found this thread on this forum titled "API Audit: One in 5 Motor Oils Off-Spec". oilhttp://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=256425&an=0&page=3#Post256425 . It sounds like they find noncompliances every time they do an audit. My guess is that companies formulate their oils to barely pass the specs to get certification and save money, and if the formulation process is off a little, they may no longer meet the certification spec.
Also many experts do not believe the current GF-4 Sequence VIB Fuel Economy is not the best measurement of fuel savings and that it may be replaced with a dyno test to yield more real world measurements.
Also many experts do not believe the current GF-4 Sequence VIB Fuel Economy is not the best measurement of fuel savings and that it may be replaced with a dyno test to yield more real world measurements.
"API Audit: One in 5 Motor Oils Off-spec". Russian Roulette has better odds. I like the approach Amsoil has taken. They subjected their oil to 3 times the length of the test that many of the other API Certified oils struggled to pass as evidenced in the audit, and with results that easily passed the tests at three times the test length. http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1916.pdf .
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