Spring '07- good/better $2000 Lawn Tractors?

[UncleS2]

Ah, Spring! When an old guy's thoughts lightly turn to thoughts of- a new lawn tractor/riding mower.

I'll be mowing Mom's big obstacle course again this year, & probably for several years to come. The old MTD-made Lowe's(over 10 yrs old, B&S 14 hp I/C 1-cyl, 42" deck) is nearing its end- the engine still runs & pulls just fine, but the other stuff is really going downhill fast. Thought I had a new set of blades for it, but it seems I wuz wrong.

Since the old MTD isn't worth spending any more $$ on- new blades run about $30-$40 set

- gonna be time for a new mower soon. The yard is rough, with steep hills, & the zero-turn units are out of the question. And the new mower will spend over half its working life in a near-cloud of sand, so reasonably heavy/thick deck shell is a must. The old MTD deck shell has held up fair.

So- what to get for $2000 or less- or maybe a bit more if we could really get a big leap in quality/durability? Yes, I know we could get a much better machine for $4000- $6000, but those are just out of the question- even $3K is too much. Might stretch to ~$2500 or so for the right machine.

So far, the John Deere LA 120(42" deck, $1850) or LA 130(48", $2K) look pretty good. Both have hour meters, automatic trans, B&S 21-hp V-twins w/oil filters, etc. Or the Cub Cadet LT 1460 also looks good- 23-hp Kohler V-twin, ATx, oil filter, 46" deck, quick-detach deck system, dech-washer hose fitting, hour meter etc- for $1900. All of these have hydro drives- no variable-diameter-pulley drive systems need apply.

Sears has a bewildering array of lawn tractors, with reviews all over the place. I'd consider them too for the right machine & deal.

I'd consider almost any brand that's available locally- of course, if I found a used Kubota or high-end JD etc for a good price. Whatever I get will have to be delivered. Any & all input appreciated.

 

[JTK]

Unfortunately $2K doesn't buy you all that much machine. However, for 10yrs of grass cutting on gentle terrain that's all you need. If you need something for rough terrain/hills & can budge to just over $3K, the new cub cadet 2500 series machines are tough buggers. http://www.cubcadet.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10051_14101_89357_33814_-1# I'm going on season 3 with my 2005 model year 2544 & love it. Too bad CC keeps ramping up the prices. I paid $2999 for my 2544.

Joel

 

[UncleS2]

Thanks- Cub Cadet 2500 series, huh? How about a CC 1500 series- split the difference between the 1000 & the 2500s?

Reason I ask- this afternoon at Home Depot, they had the CC model 1550- 25-hp Kohler V-twin, 50" deck, looked like one heckuva nice riding mower to me. Thick steel on the mowing deck, hour meter, price $2399- and free delivery after rebate for about another week or two.

*Really* tempting. Had the large 4-lug rear wheels, front-opening hood, grab-handles on the rear fenders(that would be an *excellent* feature for me!

)

Saw some Husqvarnas that looked good, but all their V-twins are Briggs Intek. For over $2K I'd really prefer a Kohler.

FWIW- looks like a lot of the brands are getting their frames, bodywork, decks, etc from the same suppliers.

I'll check further on the Husqvarnas- mainly because there's a dealer less than 5 miles away, gotta wait for him to open Monday- and on the 2500 series Cub Cadets.

Honestly though- that CC model 1550 looked awfully good to me!

 

[UncleS2]

Joel- I did a little more research, and you're sure right. Cub Cadet 2500s have shaft drive to the trans, and a cast iron serviceable trans, makes for a big step up. Unforunately the 2544 is now priced at $3500!

Just can't afford the extra $1K over the model 1550.
I'll visit some CC, JD, & Husq dealers on Mon-Tue, & see what they have.

 

[wileyE]

Going on to years with new deere and have had to fix it 3 times. Wouldn't buy another one. Ticks me off having to borrow my old craftsman back while waiting on repairs.

 

[JTK]

Stuart, the problem with the 1000 series Cubs is, the frame and transaxles are basically the same as the cookie cutter MTD variants. CC markets the 1000 series (hydro-gear brand) transaxles as serviceable, but I've yet to see a drain plug or external filter on one. They have had their share of 'propulsion' issues. The 1000 series do however have better decks, steering and deck suspension hardware than the typical MTD or AYP (sears) machine. The iron cased transaxle on my 2544 holds 6qts of oil and uses a spin on filter near the size of a PH8A. An aluminum hyrdo-gear hydrostatic drive is bolted to the input of the diff. Driveshaft is cpld to the hydro drive. It's not the best machine around, but it's comparable to MUCH more expensive machines. The 20hp kohler command horizontal shaft sounds like a harley at idle & on throttle up, but it's smooth as butter on the fly.

Joel

 

[UncleS2]

Thanks again, Joel- but I really can't afford that extra $1100 plus delivery. Price is $3499 on the 2544 model.

Just to clarify- there really is a Cub Cadet 1500 model series, between the 1000 & the 2500. The 1500 series is bigger & heavier than the 1000, has a front opening hood, armrests on the seat, big rear wheels. The 1550 uses a Kohler Courage 25-hp V-Twin & has a 50" 3-blade deck- and Home Despot

has it for $2399, with free delivery after rebate, thru March 27 or 28.

Before I buy anything Ill see what the dealers have- maybe a returned 2544? Probably just wishful thinking on my part!

FWIW- as rough & steep as parts of the yard are, I never had any trouble out of the belt drive to the rear axle slipping on the old MTD- it was the sliding variable pulley that died & had to be replaced last year. The thing would spin tires going up a steep hill before the belt would ever slip.

Still, that shaft drive & heavy-duty trans sure makes one heckuva good benchmark. I just can't afford the difference. Right now my "front-runner" looks to be the CC SLT 1550. Link to the Cub Cadet 1500 series: http://www.cubcadet.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/category2_10051_14101_33812_16203_16203_-1

I will say that so far, Cub Cadet looks better to me than anything else in the same price range, includng the John Deere, Husqvarna, & Craftsman. JMO, your opinion may vary.

 

[JTK]

I'm all too familiar with the MTD transmatic variable speed (variator) drive. I owned one. What a pile. I could never keep it in adjustment for my slopes. I'm also pretty familiar with the CC 1500 series from what I've seen & participated with on outdoor power equip forums. Lots of slipping belt and transaxle issues. They are a large and impressive looking machine, but it's too much deck and too little transaxle for them. If you do some research, I think you'll find the lighter duty tufftorq transaxles to be superior to the light duty hydo-gear units that MTD/CC uses. JD uses tufftorq, as does sears AYP now. If I was to get a $2K or less machine, I'd personally get a JD 100 series or a sears GT.

Joel

 

[UncleS2]

(light goes on) Oh.

As Gilda used to say, That's entirely different!

Dunno why, but I'd assumed that the CC's had the Tufftorq trans too. Doggone it.

OK- the JD 130 or 140, or maybe a Craftsman. Craftsman has *way* too many models!

Hmm...Sears often has mowers left from last year- how do I make sure that one of the Craftsman mowers has the TuffTorq tranny?

 

[UncleS2]

Aha! one place yesterday had a last year's model, John Deere model 145, still brand new, never sold or used- and the OPE guy said they'd probably deal on the price. I just called & they still have it. We may have a winner- I gotta talk to the mgr, will see for sure tomorrow.

 

[JTK]

Good deal. In that price range, that's your best bet. Another good note for JD is; parts may not be the cheapest, but they are easy to source. There's usually more JD dealers around than CC. Sears/ American Yard Products (or whatever they call it now) supposedly got away from HG and went to tufftorq about a year ago from what I understand. Parts are can be a pita for sears. Pretty much have to call 1-800-sears.

Joel

 

[UncleS2]

Update; the JD 145 at Lowe's is not new, it's a return, note in comp says it threw a belt. Price in store computer is $1980- now waiting for mgr to return from lunch & possibly authorize lower price. Don't like the sound of this so far- thrown belt might have been no biggy, mis-adustment etc- or might have knocked the !@#$%^&* out of something. Gonna have to come down a lot- or if the mgr doesn't call soon, won't matter how cheap.

BUT: All is not gloomy! The nearest JD dealer, ~25 miles away, has a 145 & a couple of 155s that have never cut a blade of grass. $1995 for the 145, $2295 for the 155, & if I'm willing to wait a few days(no problem at all) for delivery, he'll put my delivery along with something else & make delivery cheaper for me. His price on the 145 is over $400 less than I'd planned to spend on the Cub Cadet 1550 with the weak-sister trans.

Wonder if I can get him to throw in something- mebbe a cover or even better, a front bumper?

 

[JTK]

Quote:

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Update; the JD 145 at Lowe's is not new, it's a return, note in comp says it threw a belt...

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Yeah, 9 out of 10 of the home center store machine issues are just due to poor setup. The setup is supposed to be contracted out thru a local JD dealer, but it's got to be quick/dirty. I'd get one from a home center if it was a screaming deal, other than that, get it from a dealer. Dealers & home centes are 'supposed' to charge the same price for the OPE.

Joel

 

[UncleS2]

No new mower yet. Made expeditions yesterday & today. What I've learned so far- and today.

*In the stores & dealerships, never have I seen & heard so much misinformation, downright lies, stupidity, brand-worship for no reason, & brand hatred for no reason. Some people make a substitute religion out of this- seems to me more of those "believe in" JD than any of the others. But just about every brand has rabid supporters & haters. Spare me, please!

*Just because they're a JD dealer doesn't mean they're good.

I might still get the 145 at the JD dealer, but it has *Serious* competition now.

*JD uses only 12-ga thickness steel on their 48" decks- that's a Big Negative with me. The soil is so sandy here that one of the things that happens to mower decks is that they wear through, from the *Inside*! No, that is *not* an exageration, I even had a Murray(yeah, I know!) that wore through in about 4 years.

Also, JD still uses the old Rube Goldberg pins & clips attachments for the deck- big PITA when it's time to change blades. With all the JD worship that goes on you'd think they'd have some kind of quick-detach system by now- but Noooooo! In short, JD has a decent workable system- but there's nothing special about it, not even a little bit. (I know the JD crowd is gonna really hate reading this!)

*So far, the only real advantage I can see to the JD 100 series is that all its Hydro trannies are TuffTorq. Since others now use the TT trannies, that becomes even money when both have the same TT trans.

*Craftsman & Husqvarna use 10 or 11 ga steel for their 48" & 54" decks- a big plus with me. Much more rugged than the 12-ga JD decks- & the deck is what gets all the really hard knocks.

***BIGGY***: Curious to see it a hydro-drive Sears Craftsman or Husqvarna has a TuffTorq or Hydro-Gear trans? Just raise the seat & look on the bottom- there's a sticker that will tell you which brand & what model hydro trans it has! Woo Hoo! Big thanks to Jayson at Sears for teaching me that extremely useful little tidbit.

*Saw a last-years model of Husky at an independent dealer today that really looked good- I especially liked the grab-handles on the rear fenders, might have even bought it- but unfortunately it has the weak low-end Hydro-Gear 0510 trans. The external brake on those is gonna be trouble, I just know it. But at least I was able to lift the seat, read the sticker, & know for sure!

*Sears has *nice* unit for $2099.99 this week that has a Briggs Extended life 26-HP V-twin, the TuffTorq 46 trans, big rear wheels & tires, & really heavy duty 48" deck. And if I buy it with my Sears card & then pay it off right away, I get a 5% rebate- that's $105 back- makes it the same price as the filthy-dirty outside-for-months last year's JD.

*And BTW- on every lawn tractor I've been iseriously nterested in, I've opened & inspected the air filter setup. That Briggs Extended-Life engine has the best looking air filter I've seen on any lawn tractor so far- a "flat-sided oval cylinder" with a foam sleeve, as opposed to a flat panel with foam panel ahead of it, or the Kohler Courage series which seem to use paper only & have no foam pre-cleaners at all.

Air cleaner is extremely important here in the sandy soil of NE Tx, & for me an oiled foam air pre-cleaner is an absolute must.

I'm still considering the JD 145- but that pretty red Craftsman will cost about the same, has the same TT K46 trans, a *superior* deck, better air filter setup- and hey, even 4 extra HP!

 

[JTK]

Good research! Sounds like you are on the right track going with the strongest deck and trans out of the units in that price range. If you think all the clips, pins, washers, etc, associated with the deck suspension are bad on the JD 100 line, Sears/Craftsman tends to be far worse. I've never found an AYP or low end MTD machine to be friendly when it comes to dropping the deck. One plus I just discovered from a Cub Cadet home mailing was; the 1500 series is listed as having a drain plug on the transaxle. That's a first for something in this class.

Joel

 

[UncleS2]

This has really been a learning experience for me!

So Cub Cadet now claims that the 1500 series(includes the SLT 1550 I was originally so interested in!) has a drain plug on the trans- but it's the same trans that's not enough for the machine, along with a too-big 50" deck that seems to also be made of the thinner 12-ga steel? Curiouser & curiouser- but I think I'm pretty well down to a choice between the JD & the Craftsman. I may go by a HD & look under the seat on a CC- maybe they have a tranny sticker too.

The local JD dealer is something of a disappointment- does not inspire confidence, if you know what I mean. Heck, they could at least wash the poor things- they're completely covered with dirt & dust. I might be a lot more inclined to go for the JD mystique if he seemed more interested & knew his product better- but he doesn't, & so I don't.

It also strikes me that the battery on that unused JD tractor is a year old- and my experience has been that no matter what, whether you use 'em a little or a lot, those lawn tractor batteries last 2 yrs.

And just to complicate things- late last night I discovered another possibility at Sears, a closeout on a Fairway 5500 model for less $$. 2 less HP than the other Craftsman, Briggs Intek(still w/cast iron cyl liners) engine, same deck, tranny maker unknown so far. But if it has the TufTorq trans, & I can buy one at the Sears "Friends & Family" sale Sun evening, I'd wind up saving $400 over the other Craftsman I like so well. Since it's a closeout, it's probably last year's model & has the HG trans- but I'll try to find out.

Well, I'm pretty well through looking. Hate to hear that the Sears/Husq/AYP decks are as hard to remove as the MTD's- but if I can get by with replacing blades once a year, or even less often than that, I guess I can live with it.

Of course the CC 1500 series did claim to have a QD deck. Hmm...

Nope, JD or Sears. Probably Sears- when I hit a hidden tree root going full tilt, I want that heavier deck working for me. I need a workhorse, not a lightweight.

 

[JTK]

Quote:

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..has a drain plug on the trans- but it's the same trans that's not enough for the machine, along with a too-big 50" deck..

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Hehee.. yeah it's a catch 22, that's for sure. I hear you on the dealership issue. I have 2 CC dealers and 2 JD within 20mi. One of each is decent. Sears or home center staff is all but useless, so you have to know your stuff and just go in to buy.

Joel

 

[UncleS2]

Forgot to mention- that Husq dealer that's so close? He's not a Husq dealer any more- seems to sell Poulan lawn tractors now.

I'll stop in & see if he has anything left from last year- but right now it looks like I'll go down & put that Craftsman "Monster"(no kidding- they really have a "Monster" series for 2007!

) on the Sears card on Friday.

 

[JTK]

Husqvarna, Poulan and Sears are all made by AYP, bought out by Electrolux, now called Husqvarna. http://www.electrolux.com/node366.aspx They are come out of a factory in the Charlotte NC area I believe. If you can get a deal on that sears machine, that sounds like the most new LT for the buck.

Joel

 

[UncleS2]

Unfortunately, the Sears "Fairway" 5500 has the Hydro-Gear 0510 series trans. I'd like to avoid that- even though it would save some reasonably serious $$.

I do wonder just how much difference in the real world there is between the HG 0510 & the TT K46 trannies. The one thing I see myself is the external dry brake on the HG- even one semi-local repairman warned me yesterday about that feature specifically. He's also seen my mother's yard a few times several years ago, & thinks the TT K46 is a better idea. BTW, he sells no new lawn tractors at all.

So I'll probably get the Sears "Monster" 5500 at $2100. After the 5% Sears card rebate, it'll be the same price as the JD 145- and the Sears mower is new & clean, +4 HP B&S Extended Life engine, same trans, heavier/thicker deck, and at least one guy in the Sears L&G department knows his product line & really wants to sell me a tractor! The JD guy doesn't seem to care much- or know much about his 100 series line either, guess its just not worth his while.

Accessories for the new Craftsman? Gonna get a Craftsman "High-Speed" pull-behind lawn sweeper(42" on sale for $280(down from $350) thru Sat, just like the mower- guys on the LT/GT forums that have this sweeper all seem to love it!), and a front bumper- on sale thru Sat for $30(down from $50).

Other than that? Probably a hitch ball w/ 5/8" shaft, to pull a 4'x8' lightweight highway trailer(steel mesh floor & low sides, whole thing will pivot to dump load or drive max 4' wide LT/GT/ATV onto without ramps) should work well for removing down tree limbs etc. & saves me from buying a cart. Trailer only weighs about 200-250 lbs I think, & I won't get carried away loading it down, so it oughta be OK. No garden plowing or snow plowing etc for me, so should be OK with the TT K46 traqns. Heck, it hasn't snowed here for several years now!