what is so special about it and what is compatible with it
SP-III Fluid
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Just use it.
Hyundai/Kia is the only automaker that I know of that uses a tracer in their fluid. If the approved fill is not in the fluid at the time of failure, it's an uphill battle.
Besides, if you read SAE Paper #2007-01-3987, you can understand why each fluid is different and an approved service fill should be used.
Also, the SP-III fluid does not require replacement until 30k under severe service or 105k under normal service. Service must be done via a flush, according to the factory service manual. Fluid discoloration is also normal as the dye is added only for ID purposes--it does not indicate the condition of the fluid.
Hyundai/Kia is the only automaker that I know of that uses a tracer in their fluid. If the approved fill is not in the fluid at the time of failure, it's an uphill battle.
Besides, if you read SAE Paper #2007-01-3987, you can understand why each fluid is different and an approved service fill should be used.
Also, the SP-III fluid does not require replacement until 30k under severe service or 105k under normal service. Service must be done via a flush, according to the factory service manual. Fluid discoloration is also normal as the dye is added only for ID purposes--it does not indicate the condition of the fluid.
It's a cheap fluid that they charge you a lot for at the dealer. Shears like crazy and has a poor add pack. Hyundai has done a very good job in scaring people that it is the only fluid that will work in their cars.
9K+ on my father's 03 Elantra with Amsoil ATF with no problems.
9K+ on my father's 03 Elantra with Amsoil ATF with no problems.
Originally Posted By: Tempest
It's a cheap fluid that they charge you a lot for at the dealer. Shears like crazy and has a poor add pack. Hyundai has done a very good job in scaring people that it is the only fluid that will work in their cars.
9K+ on my father's 03 Elantra with Amsoil ATF with no problems.
Define cheap. Tell me more about the shearing and the poor additive pack.
Many lubricants shear and they do a fine job of protecting the components. You have not addressed the concerns about the frictional properties of Amsoil vs SP-III.
It's a cheap fluid that they charge you a lot for at the dealer. Shears like crazy and has a poor add pack. Hyundai has done a very good job in scaring people that it is the only fluid that will work in their cars.
9K+ on my father's 03 Elantra with Amsoil ATF with no problems.
Define cheap. Tell me more about the shearing and the poor additive pack.
Many lubricants shear and they do a fine job of protecting the components. You have not addressed the concerns about the frictional properties of Amsoil vs SP-III.
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Define cheap.
Shears quickly with poor additive package. And Hyundai transmissions don't have the best of reps.---SPIII or not.
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Tell me more about the shearing and the poor additive pack.
All you have to do is look at the VOA and UOAs on this forum.
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Many lubricants shear and they do a fine job of protecting the components.
Doesn't mean it's a good thing or they would have started out a lower, stable vis like DexVI. Shearing = VII = cheap = bad.
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You have not addressed the concerns about the frictional properties of Amsoil vs SP-III.
Nor have you shown any REAL evidence of problems. You can quote "the book" all you want but hard numbers for failures simply are not there.
Define cheap.
Shears quickly with poor additive package. And Hyundai transmissions don't have the best of reps.---SPIII or not.
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Tell me more about the shearing and the poor additive pack.
All you have to do is look at the VOA and UOAs on this forum.
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Many lubricants shear and they do a fine job of protecting the components.
Doesn't mean it's a good thing or they would have started out a lower, stable vis like DexVI. Shearing = VII = cheap = bad.
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You have not addressed the concerns about the frictional properties of Amsoil vs SP-III.
Nor have you shown any REAL evidence of problems. You can quote "the book" all you want but hard numbers for failures simply are not there.
Originally Posted By: Tempest
All you have to do is look at the VOA and UOAs on this forum.
That doesn't tell you anything. There are a lot of elements that you cannot detect with a $40 VOA.
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Doesn't mean it's a good thing or they would have started out a lower, stable vis like DexVI. Shearing = VII = cheap = bad.
Maybe, but I would not condemn a lubricant just because of that.
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Nor have you shown any REAL evidence of problems. You can quote "the book" all you want but hard numbers for failures simply are not there.
Of course, it depends on the severity of service. If you just drove it to the grocery store once-a-week, tractor fluid would probably work fine too. That is the reason why the multi-vehicle products work fine for many owners--most owners do not operate their vehicles under condition where the weaknesses of the fluid would be exposed. This doesn't mean that the multi-vehicle product is a good choice for their vehicle, it just means that they are able to get away with it. In addition, the oil companies are hoping that you will not have the time and funds to go after them in the event that there's a lubrication related failure, not that it'd be easy to prove anyway.
All you have to do is look at the VOA and UOAs on this forum.
That doesn't tell you anything. There are a lot of elements that you cannot detect with a $40 VOA.
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Doesn't mean it's a good thing or they would have started out a lower, stable vis like DexVI. Shearing = VII = cheap = bad.
Maybe, but I would not condemn a lubricant just because of that.
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Nor have you shown any REAL evidence of problems. You can quote "the book" all you want but hard numbers for failures simply are not there.
Of course, it depends on the severity of service. If you just drove it to the grocery store once-a-week, tractor fluid would probably work fine too. That is the reason why the multi-vehicle products work fine for many owners--most owners do not operate their vehicles under condition where the weaknesses of the fluid would be exposed. This doesn't mean that the multi-vehicle product is a good choice for their vehicle, it just means that they are able to get away with it. In addition, the oil companies are hoping that you will not have the time and funds to go after them in the event that there's a lubrication related failure, not that it'd be easy to prove anyway.
Originally Posted By: The Critic
[snip] Service must be done via a flush, according to the factory service manual. Fluid discoloration is also normal as the dye is added only for ID purposes--it does not indicate the condition of the fluid.
Why must it be done through a flush if using the same fluid? Why not just a drain (or suck) & refill? Does it have a drain bolt?
[snip] Service must be done via a flush, according to the factory service manual. Fluid discoloration is also normal as the dye is added only for ID purposes--it does not indicate the condition of the fluid.
Why must it be done through a flush if using the same fluid? Why not just a drain (or suck) & refill? Does it have a drain bolt?
Originally Posted By: benjamming
Why must it be done through a flush if using the same fluid? Why not just a drain (or suck) & refill? Does it have a drain bolt?
The service manual states that the prior way to service the transmission is to clean and remove the magnetic drain plug, refill the transmission, remove the cooler lines, and do a flush until all of the fluid is replaced.
It's always best to replace all of the fluid. I guess Hyundai just wants as close to as 100% new fluid as possible whenever a fluid change is necessary.
Why must it be done through a flush if using the same fluid? Why not just a drain (or suck) & refill? Does it have a drain bolt?
The service manual states that the prior way to service the transmission is to clean and remove the magnetic drain plug, refill the transmission, remove the cooler lines, and do a flush until all of the fluid is replaced.
It's always best to replace all of the fluid. I guess Hyundai just wants as close to as 100% new fluid as possible whenever a fluid change is necessary.
""Of course, it depends on the severity of service. If you just drove it to the grocery store once-a-week, tractor fluid would probably work fine too. That is the reason why the multi-vehicle products work fine for many owners--most owners do not operate their vehicles under condition where the weaknesses of the fluid would be exposed."""
Best post I have seen in a while
Bruce
Best post I have seen in a while
Bruce
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most owners do not operate their vehicles under condition where the weaknesses of the fluid would be exposed
What conditions are those?
most owners do not operate their vehicles under condition where the weaknesses of the fluid would be exposed
What conditions are those?
Originally Posted By: Tempest
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most owners do not operate their vehicles under conditions where the weaknesses of the fluid would be exposed
What conditions are those?
Probably continuous low-speed, high-load operation such as heavy trailer towing. Few people operate their vehicles under those conditions which is why you see very few problems with multi-vehicle products.
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most owners do not operate their vehicles under conditions where the weaknesses of the fluid would be exposed
What conditions are those?
Probably continuous low-speed, high-load operation such as heavy trailer towing. Few people operate their vehicles under those conditions which is why you see very few problems with multi-vehicle products.
SP-III is frictionally similar to Chrysler ATF.
I use ATF+4 as a substitute and never had a problem.
I use ATF+4 as a substitute and never had a problem.
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Probably continuous low-speed, high-load operation such as heavy trailer towing.
Those conditions have little or nothing to do with the frictional characteristics of the fluid. That's all about AW and heat dissipation.
Probably continuous low-speed, high-load operation such as heavy trailer towing.
Those conditions have little or nothing to do with the frictional characteristics of the fluid. That's all about AW and heat dissipation.
Originally Posted By: Tempest
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Probably continuous low-speed, high-load operation such as heavy trailer towing.
Those conditions have little or nothing to do with the frictional characteristics of the fluid. That's all about AW and heat dissipation.
It has a lot to do with it. Having the correct frictional properties is part of the anti-wear system. If the frictional properties are not correct, it can cause excessive wear of the friction materials, especially under severe service.
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Probably continuous low-speed, high-load operation such as heavy trailer towing.
Those conditions have little or nothing to do with the frictional characteristics of the fluid. That's all about AW and heat dissipation.
It has a lot to do with it. Having the correct frictional properties is part of the anti-wear system. If the frictional properties are not correct, it can cause excessive wear of the friction materials, especially under severe service.
Thanks Tempest.
I think we should consider what the beneficial secrets are that only Hyundai knows about trans fluid.
All other car Mfrs. should listen to them and follow their lead.
Or NOT!
I think we should consider what the beneficial secrets are that only Hyundai knows about trans fluid.
All other car Mfrs. should listen to them and follow their lead.
Or NOT!
If I owned a Hundai/Kia, I would run the factory fill about 30k miles, then flush it 100% using Amsoil ATF and go from there. Most likely I would also add an inline filter of some sort and additional cooling at the same time. If I did have some sort of transmission problem while still under warranty, I would then buy enough of their special ATF and flush it completely to get that marker in there, and then bring it in for the warranty work. Just to save me some hassles I would remove the cooler and and inline filter, too.
Seems kinda dishonest, but folks should not have to buy special dealer-only fluid at an inflated price when they could have a better fluid like Amsoil (my opinion) or even ST ATF+4 and have as good or better results. Now if the factory fluid would actually protect the trans well until the end of the 100k mile warranty, then I would have no problem with their "marked" fluid.
For example, the current factory fill ATF in new BMWs will most certainly get you through warranty and then some. I would not consider changing the fluid until 100k miles or later unless the car was literally raced or abused. But that fluid is much higher quality and much higher priced stuff.
Seems kinda dishonest, but folks should not have to buy special dealer-only fluid at an inflated price when they could have a better fluid like Amsoil (my opinion) or even ST ATF+4 and have as good or better results. Now if the factory fluid would actually protect the trans well until the end of the 100k mile warranty, then I would have no problem with their "marked" fluid.
For example, the current factory fill ATF in new BMWs will most certainly get you through warranty and then some. I would not consider changing the fluid until 100k miles or later unless the car was literally raced or abused. But that fluid is much higher quality and much higher priced stuff.
Originally Posted By: bmwtechguy
If I owned a Hundai/Kia, I would run the factory fill about 30k miles, then flush it 100% using Amsoil ATF and go from there. Most likely I would also add an inline filter of some sort and additional cooling at the same time.
I just did all of this except the cooler, don't need it last check I only had 135ish fluid temps.
I posted a VOA and UOA of my SPIII in my car with 25k miles, it was shot if anyone recalls. I am now running amsoil ATF in my transmission, much better performance thus far. My normal drive is 100 miles round trip. I just drove 220 miles to fayetteville and 330 from fayetteville to athens no problems running 85 mph up and down hills in SC & GA. Friday I am driving the 550 back to home base. If that is still to light duty for you FYI athens loves lights on hills which are always red at least for me. No issues what so ever, very smooth shifts. I don't see towing anything with a RIO. I'll have over 42K miles by the time I get back total 2k on the amsoil atf.
SPIII at the dealer was actually more then amsoil atf, from the mitsu dealer it cost the same but the amsoil should hold up longer then 25k miles. If I kept running SPIII I would do partial at least every 6 months.
This is strictly my opinion you can do whatever you like.
If I owned a Hundai/Kia, I would run the factory fill about 30k miles, then flush it 100% using Amsoil ATF and go from there. Most likely I would also add an inline filter of some sort and additional cooling at the same time.
I just did all of this except the cooler, don't need it last check I only had 135ish fluid temps.
I posted a VOA and UOA of my SPIII in my car with 25k miles, it was shot if anyone recalls. I am now running amsoil ATF in my transmission, much better performance thus far. My normal drive is 100 miles round trip. I just drove 220 miles to fayetteville and 330 from fayetteville to athens no problems running 85 mph up and down hills in SC & GA. Friday I am driving the 550 back to home base. If that is still to light duty for you FYI athens loves lights on hills which are always red at least for me. No issues what so ever, very smooth shifts. I don't see towing anything with a RIO. I'll have over 42K miles by the time I get back total 2k on the amsoil atf.
SPIII at the dealer was actually more then amsoil atf, from the mitsu dealer it cost the same but the amsoil should hold up longer then 25k miles. If I kept running SPIII I would do partial at least every 6 months.
This is strictly my opinion you can do whatever you like.
If their proprietary fluid is required to keep your warranty, don't they have to supply it for free by law?
Good question- does anyone know how Magnusson Moss Warranty Act would have an effect on the SPIII requirement, especially if it could need changed during the warranty? Are there certified SPIII fluids out there in the aftermarket?
Originally Posted By: bmwtechguy
Good question- does anyone know how Magnusson Moss Warranty Act would have an effect on the SPIII requirement, especially if it could need changed during the warranty? Are there certified SPIII fluids out there in the aftermarket?
SP-III can be purchased at Hyundai, Kia or Mitsubishi dealers. Hyundai don't say you have to buy SP-III from Hyundai. Even allowing that Kia is the same company as Hyundai, Mitsubishi is an independent source. I don't think there is any Magnusson Moss issue at all.
Good question- does anyone know how Magnusson Moss Warranty Act would have an effect on the SPIII requirement, especially if it could need changed during the warranty? Are there certified SPIII fluids out there in the aftermarket?
SP-III can be purchased at Hyundai, Kia or Mitsubishi dealers. Hyundai don't say you have to buy SP-III from Hyundai. Even allowing that Kia is the same company as Hyundai, Mitsubishi is an independent source. I don't think there is any Magnusson Moss issue at all.
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