SOPUS? for Johnny or anyone

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Feb 24, 2009
Messages
395
Location
Abingdon VA
I was on another forum and saw this:
" i wouldnt put a "brand name" (penzoil,QS,etc) conventional oil in anything you plan on keeping. In my understanding they are actually designed to allow more friction than they did 20 years ago, to promote quick heating to operational temps and in an autocompany conspiracy to cause engines to wear out faster "

Is this true? or [censored]
 
Last edited:
That's crazy. Every API service has has lower and lower friction requirements.

Didn't the mere mention of "conspiracy" tip you of it's [censored]? Do engines really wear out faster now than 30 years ago?

And if so, why would the conspiracy be only for conventional oils?
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
The same person that typed that is probably getting ready for 2012.

I like this remark he probably got ready for Y2K also
lol.gif
 
Originally Posted By: crazycrak
I was on another forum and saw this:
" i wouldnt put a "brand name" (penzoil,QS,etc) conventional oil in anything you plan on keeping. In my understanding they are actually designed to allow more friction than they did 20 years ago, to promote quick heating to operational temps and in an autocompany conspiracy to cause engines to wear out faster "

Is this true? or [censored]

With CAFE standards higher and higher, the oils nowadays cause less friction to not rob the engine of power and to improve fuel economy. So, in fact, it's just the opposite.

Whatever that guy is smoking, I want some...
 
Originally Posted By: tig1
More friction is better. That's what we need. More friction.


I am going to start marketing engine sand. something like Z-max, but I will call it Si-Maxx Plus Gold. I will have 3 products: 1) super-extra-fine grade sand for the fuel tank that won't clog the fuel filter or injectors, 2) extra-fine grade for the engine that won't clog the oil filter, and 3) fine-grade in an aerosol that can be sprayed into the carburetor or throttle body.

Think of the money I could make. Think of the suckers that would buy it.
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Don't forget Pennzoil and QS cause wax build up in the engine too
lol.gif
.

There are some hardcore belivers of that alot of the guys I work with call Quaker State
Quaker Sludge or Quality Sludge. Only 4 out of 15 of them including myself like the product. Most of them say if you ever pull the valve covers of a engine that has been running QS it looks like charcoal. They also get off the kick that they wouldnt run it in a lawn mower or use it to start a brush fire. So many uneducated people
18.gif
.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Don't forget Pennzoil and QS cause wax build up in the engine too
lol.gif
.


Wax is slippery. Should reduce friction well ......
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Don't forget Pennzoil and QS cause wax build up in the engine too
lol.gif
.


Wax is slippery. Should reduce friction well ......


True, but those dummies are probably erroneously thinking wax build up as in sludge..you know that waxy Pennzylvania crude lol.
 
No manufactures do design the heads and water jackets to allow the engine to reach thermodynamic effeciency faster then in the past but that is not all bad. What I mean is that so long as you maintain the cooling system and use a decent oil all is well. They have gone to better meaterials, less tolerance stacking and more uniform methods of forming the parts. They use different casting methods for different propeties that a given part needs, powder metal, cracked caps etc.... Do not get me wrong forged is still the best and cast iron is still a great meteaterial but we have MPG targets the need to be meet and their is emissions that have to be meet. So it is give and take... I would say that engines today are cleaner then they have ever been are just as durable as say late 1980's engines but produce much more power on less fuel with lower emissions. Some durablity is lost by some manufactures but not across the board. For instance Toyota's engines especialytheir V8's have to be amoung the finiest in production vechiles on this earth and have to be more durable then any other production mass produced V8 in vechiles costing less then $50K in the history of the internal combustion engine! On the other hand we have seen some designs from some OEM's like GM that are neither a step forward or a step backwardsin terms of durability or refinement but are produceing great power output with managable emissions and better fuel economy then they had in the 1980's!

Baring the slant 6 from Chrysler Toyota and Honda preety much set the standard for reliable durable long lasting engines and transmissions it was body rust that they had to learn to control.It has been the norm since the late 1970's for Toyota's to routinely go 300,000-500,000 with nothing but routine maintenance and that was back when 120,000 on a domestic vehicle was thought to be incredable!Today many manufactures have designs in place that will easily do 300,000 with routine maintenance it is normally the transmission that is the weak link today as soo many people are driving automatics and rubber seals,check balls and electronic solenoids just can not match the durability of a good manual trans.

Most of Toyota's modern engines can do the 500,000 mile miracle, I have little doubt that Fords Modular V8's can do almost as well as a Toyota V8 in terms of real world durability.

I do see todays oils as less then what they used to be but for me that is because M-1 had to drop their additive levels to meet SM levels. I think any oil that has an additive package that isnot on par with a diesel oil is basically a weak knee'ed oil and not worth putting in your car. The only conspiricay is that GM is cheap and makes cheap catalytic converters that plug up easy and often due to their engines burning so much oil. With all the money they spent on the North Star for instance you can not tell me they did not know they drank oil like a kitten drinks milk before they released that design. Same thing with their modern short block's and the oil consumption and piston slap issues......Really you are telling me that none of the captured fleet vehicles had these issues during validation? So what you really have to ask yourself is why some companies have so many issues with oil burning, plugging catalytic converters and such that they needed to create a new oil standard to try and cut warranty cost. You have to follow the squeaky wheel! The company screaming the loudest is usually the reason for a new standard. Since most of GM's engines use roller lifters lots of anti-wear agents are not needed. The other companies I am sure also thought that the possibility of lowered emission warranty claims was also a good idea. GM has been hit hard for a long time by states that have California testing and emissions....They where and I am sure still are geting it hard because of CARB. GM has had a lot of black eye's when dealing with CARB over injector problems, EGR problems and catalytic converter issues. CARB can afford to hire the best engineers and lawyers around to prove that GM or any other manufacture put a defective design ont he market and they make them warranty it. For example some of you might recall the quasi MPI unit GM had ont he V6 and Small Block that had a central port injector with 6-8 tentacals coming off it with a popet valve on the ends. These would carbon up and fail. Carb proved that they knewit was a defective design and that the fuel pump design was also sub par. GM settled with CARB by agreeing to warranty theses untis which often needed to be decarboneed or replaced every 50K to pas emissions for the next 300,000 miles and to design and retrofit those units at a latter date with an improved design! So it made sense for Bob Olree(sp) of GM to try and get lowered additive levels as well in the oils as a means of reducing their warranty cost. It was cheaper to get a new oil standrd thenit was to redesign all their engines to not burn so much oil. I mean you had a lot of designs if you included Cadaliac, Saturn and the rest of GM that burnt a lot of oil. The more oil you pass through the exhaust themore ZDDP that pass through the cat aand the quicker it is ruined. Lower the additive levels and you extend the life of the catalytic converters.

So it was not a conspiracy to make engines wear out faster it was a conspiracy to get around spending more for a better engine design or catalytic converter.Just like the higher head temp.'s OEM would love to not do that but in order to pass emissions easily it is a must. Just like sticking cat's on the exhaust manifold right under the hood next to all the other engine components not something most OEM's wanted to do! It waas the easiest way to get the cat's hot fast so they light off and start doing their job.So it is normaly some guy in a suite in Washinton or some tree hugger in California that is responsibly for things that make engines less durable or more complex then they need to be!
 
Originally Posted By: JohnBrowning
Most of Toyota's modern engines can do the 500,000 mile miracle, I have little doubt that Fords Modular V8's can do almost as well as a Toyota V8 in terms of real world durability.


Ever hear of a really high mileage Toyota V8? I haven't.

I have heard of and seen numerous 300,000+ mile Modulars.

Here's a couple examples:
http://www.millionmilevan.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYRkbYZmzNw

New timing chains/guides would have had that Modular in the second video going double mileage in all likelihood.
 
Funny, all I own is GM and none burn oil or have had converter issues or piston slap. I usually get 200k or more from them, and sell them still running due to rotted out bodies (I live in the salt belt).
Can I have some of that Kool-Aid?
 
Originally Posted By: cronk
Funny, all I own is GM and none burn oil or have had converter issues or piston slap. I usually get 200k or more from them, and sell them still running due to rotted out bodies (I live in the salt belt).
Can I have some of that Kool-Aid?


I haven't been on here very long but I know enough to take JB's posts about GM with a grain of salt. My 3 vehicles (car, truck, and boat) do have GM engines in them but I'm fairly open-minded when it comes to vehicle brands. None of the GM vehicles we have owned have ever had oil consumption issues. The original catalytic converter on my truck lasted 220,000 miles and 12 years.......
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom