Solvent flush question?

[BrianWC]

I used to be a HUGE fan of flushes before I realized the potential downsides. Quite honestly, at first, that still didn't bother me too much. But the last time I flushed with my weapon of choice, Chemtool, it wasn't particularly effective (read-not at all) and I had a nice scraping noise from my engine until the oil all flowed back. That did it for me with a thin flush like that. I did arx and it got a good bit out but not all. That's why I kept soldiering on and testing other products. I'm glad you're happy with Neutra, Eric. It didn't work for me but I didn't expect a whole lot since Chemtool didn't do anything. The kero flush on the Yota thread was eye opening for me but seemed like a lot of work. My SAAB's screen mesh is VERY tiny so I would worry waay too much about clogging it up. That's why I had initially chosen Chemtool. I had hoped it would dissolve the stuff to nothingness before it could do any harm. If I had a car that I could take my time on and flush and reflush and constantly remove the pan, maybe I'd try the kerosene route. But I chose to go the arx route b/c it seemed idiot-proof and was the most effective thing at the same time based on the comparative pics I took of the deposits in my engine. I won't argue that it takes time to clean everything up, though. In case anyone is wondering, I used a half can of Chemtool when I was doing flushes with it...I honestly can't fathom why it DIDN'T to too good a job for me, but....

 

[Lonnie]

I think that Auto-Rx has been tested, pulled, pushed and put into just about every situation one could think of and has worked well. So many members of the BITOG family have used it that I think that newbies must think there is a cult growning here. After finding Auto-Rx I can't imagine takeing the risk of using a solvent and there is the question that the strongest solvents many not even clean as well. The difference is that Auto-Rx takes time, somthing that shops and some owners just don't want to deal with. For me, I've got the time and my car is not taken out of service. This stuff works so well that I've put it into friends cars and paid for it myself. I don't think I'm ever going to go back to solvents.

 

[KieferS]

I had a little bit of varnish on my dip stick, i pulled it out today and it was ALOT better..and it always bothered me, i always take it out and stare at it for hours because it annoyed the $%#@ out of me. it's still there, but a WHOLE lot better.

Amsoil has just made a customer for life.

 

[ConfederateTyrant]

KieferS,
Did you use the Amsoil engine flush? I've read several online forum posts about it removing varnish off of the dipstick. I didn't pay much attention to my car's internal cleanliness, so I'm not sure if it made any changes, but the interals are mighty clean when I look through the oil fill hole with a flashlight.

 

[ericthepig]

Stay tuned. In about two wks I'll be at the end of 500 miles of oil and 16oz. of Neutra in my 323 engine. Will drain it hot, will install Ams. flush and go 20-25 min. at bumped up rpm. The varnish down in the valve area looks rich and thick - when I have the details I'll fire this thread back up and give my honest appraisal - good or bad.

 

[KieferS]

Yea, i used the Amsoil engine flush.
My dipstick still has varnish on it, it's not completley gone, but its very noticably better, probably will go away the next time i use the flush. Amsoil gave the results i was looking for in a flush, in less than 20 minutes. Couldn't be more sattisfied with the product, solvent or not.

 

[Frank]

In another postI thought you said Auto-Rx had made you a customer for life? well no matter were here to help.

 

[Frank]

Here is why your going to need help. Solvent is one product and it only cleans out deposits left by using a poor oil.
If you use a good oil you should not need to use a solvent in your engine.

Think about it, there is many places in your engine that don’t drain all the oil out of. You know the small little valleys that hold the oil and doesn’t drain oil. That still has the solvent it them and will contaminate your new fresh oil. Solvent will clean out your engine but at what cost?
Solvent is made to break down oils and I for one would never use a solvent in my engine because it would start to break down my new fresh oil and reduce the oils ability to properly lubricate my engine.

Do you think thats why so many AMSOIL Dealers use Auto-Rx to clean there customers engine before installing new AMSOIL ?

 

[Hammer]

Quote:

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Think about it, there is many places in your engine that don’t drain all the oil out of. You know the small little valleys that hold the oil and doesn’t drain oil. That still has the solvent it them and will contaminate your new fresh oil. Solvent will clean out your engine but at what cost?
Solvent is made to break down oils and I for one would never use a solvent in my engine because it would start to break down my new fresh oil and reduce the oils ability to properly lubricate my engine.

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That is why you do a couple "oil only" flushes after the solvent flush using dirt cheap store brand oils. This will get the solvents out and you don't have to wait 3500 miles for a clean engine.

Hammer

 

[dbdeland]

Why go through all of that aggravation when Auto-Rx removes the sludge slowly and safely.

 

[Hammer]

Quote:

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Why go through all of that aggravation when Auto-Rx removes the sludge slowly and safely.

---

I believe in Auto-RX...I have used it in my Z28, my N14, my Powerstroke, and currently doing the 2nd high mile clean cycle in my BMW. But at the same time, I have found uses for the faster "solvent based" flushes too. Sometimes people want fast action and there are safe ways to use Solvents to get there. It really isn't much an aggravation to use some cheap Supertech oil to flush out an engine after using a solvent. It's just a matter of keeping the car in the air, putting the plug back in and running the car for 20 minutes on clean oil and draining again. However many times you want to do this flush can vary.

Hammer

 

[dargo]

What I do not understand is I still have yet to see, in a white paper, that states solvants are bad or cause issues. Everyone has their take on it but.....

Do not get me wrong, I like and use Auto-RX and still use solvants too..along with acid wheel cleaners. These products all work it you use them correctly.

I am doing a ARX right now and will either add Neutra 131 or Amsoil engine flush at the end of the rinse stage. I will buy ARX again along with solvants too.

 

[Frank]

Written by Fred Rau 8-92 Nothing Changed.(Your White paper)

Chapter 9 - Detergents And Solvents

Many of the older, better-known oil treatments on the market do not make claims nearly so lavish as the new upstarts. Old standbys like Bardahl, Rislone and Marvel Mystery Oil, instead offer things like "quieter lifters," "reduced oil burning" and a "cleaner engine."

Most of these products are made up of solvents and detergents designed to dissolve sludge and carbon deposits inside your engine so they can be flushed or burned out. Wynn's Friction Proofing Oil, for example, is 83 percent kerosene. Other brands use naphthalene, xylene, acetone and isopropanol. Usually, these ingredients will be found in a base of standard mineral oil.

In general, these products are designed to do just the opposite of what the PTFE and zinc phosphate additives claim to do. Instead of leaving behind a "coating" or a "plating" on your engine surfaces, they are designed to strip away such things.

All of these products will strip sludge and deposits out and clean up your engine, particularly if it is an older, abused one. The problem is, unless you have some way of determining just how much is needed to remove your deposits without going any further, such solvents also can strip away the boundary lubrication layer provided by your oil. Overuse of solvents is an easy trap to fall into, and one which can promote harmful metal-to-metal contact within your engine.

As a general rule of thumb these products had their place and were at least moderately useful on older automobile and motorcycle engines of the Fifties and Sixties, but are basically unneeded on the more efficient engine designs of the past two decades.

 

[dargo]

Problem is it's one mans take on it from 1992. That is how many years ago?????
http://www.xs11.com/tips/maintenance/maint4.shtml#SLICK_008

I want to see something that states nothing "in general rule", "my theory" etc that shows people signed-off on it (the data). Everyones problem / engine is not general. Or better yet is a global stance that solvants are bad. Go to any car dealer and they will and do use solvants on engine oil or other items. If they were bad they would not use them.

This is not a white paper. It is one mans take on it from an internet site. Internet is a open source here.

I like ARX and will buy it again. Again I like ARX; but, on the flip side I still use solvants since they work. Not knocking any products but certain people hate solvants. If there was something from Ford, GM, Toyo that states solvants are bad and it will do XXXXX, I would stop. So far nope.

have a good one.

 

[Frank]

Will this board do? read the first two posts. By the way Fred Rau is the one man who first told the truth about "Friction Reducers" Flushes and the facts ( and had the knowledge to back it all up). Nothing much has changed in my book.

/www.corolland.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=17049>

 

[dargo]

Thanks Frank...The way I see it, too many forums and anyone can post here or on any forum. Fred could be the truth but again, nothing to support his data via car dealers etc. Again show me where they are bad and cause XXXX problems?

Trusting info from “corolland.com” is nothing short of entertaining here.

This is my last post here (thread wise) since it can go on and on, solvants work and so does ARX. Believe what you wish. I have used solvents and non and all work as directed.

 

[Frank]

It has been enjoyable let me know if/when you have oil pick up problems or internal seal leaks. We will rush you at our expense overnight some Auto-Rx and instructions .

 

[dargo]

Problem here is the "if/when" will never be documented nor be visible to the public. Let’s see the proof here.

To close, I like ARX and all but have yet to see the supporting data that shows solvents are bad and causes XXX issues.

 

[KieferS]

I never did any compression tests on amsoil, i'm sure it's an excellent product, but i just didn't see any diffrence after using it, i used Amsoil flush, for 20 minutes, my oil still came out clean, but the varnish on my dipstick (don't know how it got there, don't have much under the hood at all) is now almost gone. i had to put over 3000 forced miles, and had to use Dino in my supercharged motor to get what i wanted, and at the end i still felt like i didn't get what i was looking for. 20 minutes of amsoil, and 15 dollars plus 3 days w/o waiting later (there are plenty of amsoil dealers near me) I had the results i wanted.
Still, if i buy a car i don't know the history of, and i want to clean the motor, i'll give Auto RX one more try and see if it makes a diffrence on a more 'poorer' condition motor.

 

[KieferS]

..revised edition, since i can't edit
I never did any compression tests on aRX, i'm sure it's an excellent product, but i just didn't see any diffrence after using it, i used Amsoil flush, for 20 minutes, my oil still came out clean, but the varnish on my dipstick (don't know how it got there, don't have much under the hood at all) is now almost gone. i had to put over 3000 forced miles, and had to use Dino in my supercharged motor to get what i wanted, and at the end i still felt like i didn't get what i was looking for. 20 minutes of amsoil, 15 dollars less, 3 days w/o waiting later (there are plenty of amsoil dealers near me) I had the results i wanted.
Still, if i buy a car i don't know the history of, and i want to clean the motor, i'll give Auto RX one more try and see if it makes a diffrence on a more 'poorer' condition motor.