so why are so many ripped at Mobil?
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Overpriced oil for what you get IMO. (Paying for a lot of B S marketing)
Better oils out there for a less $$.
Since Katrina I've lost all respect for Mobil 1.
Their 5000 line on the other hand is a pretty good oil. My 5 cents.
Better oils out there for a less $$.
Since Katrina I've lost all respect for Mobil 1.
Their 5000 line on the other hand is a pretty good oil. My 5 cents.
Production of PAO no longer matches a good group 3 in a cost to performance measurement. PAO is a pretty old technology.
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Overpriced oil for what you get IMO. (Paying for a lot of B S marketing)
Better oils out there for a less $$.
Since Katrina I've lost all respect for Mobil 1.
Their 5000 line on the other hand is a pretty good oil. My 5 cents.
What he said
We use mobil 5000 in the Crown vic 4.6 otherwise,no other mobil products in my garage.
Overpriced oil for what you get IMO. (Paying for a lot of B S marketing)
Better oils out there for a less $$.
Since Katrina I've lost all respect for Mobil 1.
Their 5000 line on the other hand is a pretty good oil. My 5 cents.
What he said
We use mobil 5000 in the Crown vic 4.6 otherwise,no other mobil products in my garage.
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
Production of PAO no longer matches a good group 3 in a cost to performance measurement. PAO is a pretty old technology.
Well as far as I know and what I learned here and what I learned from google PAO/ESTERS ... are way better ... then Group 3... And more expensive too
Group 3 is trying to be PAO a like ... And at some points its close .. But its not better ..
Production of PAO no longer matches a good group 3 in a cost to performance measurement. PAO is a pretty old technology.
Well as far as I know and what I learned here and what I learned from google PAO/ESTERS ... are way better ... then Group 3... And more expensive too
Group 3 is trying to be PAO a like ... And at some points its close .. But its not better ..
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Started off as the OTC leader and promoter of synthetics (Down here, advocating 25,000 mile protection).
Promoted truth in advertising, on the GrIII issue with other players.
Appear to (but are unresponsive) now be running GrIII in M1 (Admit to it in Japan).
Appear to be dumbing down the formulation to a least cost just across the bar (or not quite)
And there's equal (or better) out there for the price.
Promoted truth in advertising, on the GrIII issue with other players.
Appear to (but are unresponsive) now be running GrIII in M1 (Admit to it in Japan).
Appear to be dumbing down the formulation to a least cost just across the bar (or not quite)
And there's equal (or better) out there for the price.
Originally Posted By: Ndx
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
Production of PAO no longer matches a good group 3 in a cost to performance measurement. PAO is a pretty old technology.
Well as far as I know and what I learned here and what I learned from google PAO/ESTERS ... are way better ... then Group 3... And more expensive too
Group 3 is trying to be PAO a like ... And at some points its close .. But its not better ..
PAO way better ?
PAO's have better pour points, GIII's have better additive miscibility and possible lubricity and if you do some reading the really good GIII's like Shells XHVI and the Korean produced ones will produce fully formulated oils that match or exceed the performance of a lot of PAO based oils.
Shell use XHVI blends with esters and PAO's in their F1 brews.
End of the day, it's the total formulation that counts, and if you don't require sub-Arctic starts, GIII's can match/exceed PAO performance for a lot less $$.
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
Production of PAO no longer matches a good group 3 in a cost to performance measurement. PAO is a pretty old technology.
Well as far as I know and what I learned here and what I learned from google PAO/ESTERS ... are way better ... then Group 3... And more expensive too
Group 3 is trying to be PAO a like ... And at some points its close .. But its not better ..
PAO way better ?
PAO's have better pour points, GIII's have better additive miscibility and possible lubricity and if you do some reading the really good GIII's like Shells XHVI and the Korean produced ones will produce fully formulated oils that match or exceed the performance of a lot of PAO based oils.
Shell use XHVI blends with esters and PAO's in their F1 brews.
End of the day, it's the total formulation that counts, and if you don't require sub-Arctic starts, GIII's can match/exceed PAO performance for a lot less $$.
I don't have data on hand, but I believe film strength is superior with PAO as well.
Just because Grp II/III was "discovered" more recently doesn't mean it's better technology. It just means it took them longer to figure out a way to further clean up (less sulfur, more saturates) regular refined liquid crude oil.
There are different grades of both PAO and Grp III, so don't group all PAOs and all Grp III in the same baskets.
Just because Grp II/III was "discovered" more recently doesn't mean it's better technology. It just means it took them longer to figure out a way to further clean up (less sulfur, more saturates) regular refined liquid crude oil.
There are different grades of both PAO and Grp III, so don't group all PAOs and all Grp III in the same baskets.
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Regardless I'll be buying some when the April rebate is valid.
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
I cannot stand silver-colored plastic. It makes me raging mad when I see it, let alone be in the same building as silver colored plastic.
I refuse to buy Mobil oil until they repackage it in a different colored container.
This is the best reason I've heard.
I cannot stand silver-colored plastic. It makes me raging mad when I see it, let alone be in the same building as silver colored plastic.
I refuse to buy Mobil oil until they repackage it in a different colored container.
This is the best reason I've heard.
Originally Posted By: Johnny
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
I cannot stand silver-colored plastic. It makes me raging mad when I see it, let alone be in the same building as silver colored plastic.
I refuse to buy Mobil oil until they repackage it in a different colored container.
This is the best reason I've heard.
But...But....PP's container is EVEN more silverish in color than M1...what now?
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
I cannot stand silver-colored plastic. It makes me raging mad when I see it, let alone be in the same building as silver colored plastic.
I refuse to buy Mobil oil until they repackage it in a different colored container.
This is the best reason I've heard.
But...But....PP's container is EVEN more silverish in color than M1...what now?
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Started off as the OTC leader and promoter of synthetics (Down here, advocating 25,000 mile protection).
Promoted truth in advertising, on the GrIII issue with other players.
Appear to (but are unresponsive) now be running GrIII in M1 (Admit to it in Japan).
Appear to be dumbing down the formulation to a least cost just across the bar (or not quite)
And there's equal (or better) out there for the price.
I think you've hit the nail right on the head. We as consumers have to realize the following:
1) XOM is a business and businesses need to make money. Believe me, I'm sure we all know they've made A LOT of money.
2) Like any business, they would like to make the most money for the least amount of cost
3) The engineers at XOM were able come up with an oil formulation which allows the company to call it synthetic whether it be Grp III or IV based, for the least amount of money.
4) If we as consumers don't like the fact that XOM have "cheapened" (a better term would be "engineered") their product but are charging more than other "over-engineered" oils, then we can vote with our wallets by buying other products.
My 2 cents
Started off as the OTC leader and promoter of synthetics (Down here, advocating 25,000 mile protection).
Promoted truth in advertising, on the GrIII issue with other players.
Appear to (but are unresponsive) now be running GrIII in M1 (Admit to it in Japan).
Appear to be dumbing down the formulation to a least cost just across the bar (or not quite)
And there's equal (or better) out there for the price.
I think you've hit the nail right on the head. We as consumers have to realize the following:
1) XOM is a business and businesses need to make money. Believe me, I'm sure we all know they've made A LOT of money.
2) Like any business, they would like to make the most money for the least amount of cost
3) The engineers at XOM were able come up with an oil formulation which allows the company to call it synthetic whether it be Grp III or IV based, for the least amount of money.
4) If we as consumers don't like the fact that XOM have "cheapened" (a better term would be "engineered") their product but are charging more than other "over-engineered" oils, then we can vote with our wallets by buying other products.
My 2 cents
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Originally Posted By: strombony
But...But....PP's container is EVEN more silverish in color than M1...what now?
And it's a better product IMO... What now!
But...But....PP's container is EVEN more silverish in color than M1...what now?
And it's a better product IMO... What now!
Oh, I was just being a smart arse and kidding as I know Reddy45 was. I just think the color of the bottle thing is as dumb as the rest of the ideas I've heard. But it's good there are so many different oil companies so we can all buy what we want to. I'm willing to bet that after 350,000 miles that Mobil 1 (any weight) will not destroy your engine. As a matter of fact it will probably be cleaner inside than anything else.
I would say Valvoline has accomplished what they set out to do, at least with everyone on this board.
I would say Valvoline has accomplished what they set out to do, at least with everyone on this board.
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Originally Posted By: rshaw125
Regardless I'll be buying some when the April rebate is valid.
Me too
Regardless I'll be buying some when the April rebate is valid.
Me too
Originally Posted By: Johnny
Oh, I was just being a smart arse and kidding as I know Reddy45 was. I just think the color of the bottle thing is as dumb as the rest of the ideas I've heard. But it's good there are so many different oil companies so we can all buy what we want to. I'm willing to bet that after 350,000 miles that Mobil 1 (any weight) will not destroy your engine. As a matter of fact it will probably be cleaner inside than anything else.
I would say Valvoline has accomplished what they set out to do, at least with everyone on this board.
i agree 100% with johnny, especially about the Valvoline Marketing Group success. when i argue with other engineers, we typically use numbers (sometimes even when it's about who is going to pick up the check). i have seen no numbers here, besides Ashland's, which disappoints me. sure M1 has always had higher Fe readings, but it has higher Fe even in 0w40, which i don't think anyone would suspect was "watered down". so far the only numbers this whole bruhaha has been based on are Ashland's. gonna trust a competitor's marketing department???
i was quite disappointed when Exxon bought Mobil, and i watch the company that hires drunken supertanker captains like a hawk. there are several very good oils on the market, and give me one GOOD reason to leave and i will be pouring PP and RLI faster than you can blink. i haven't, however, seen a good reason yet...
Oh, I was just being a smart arse and kidding as I know Reddy45 was. I just think the color of the bottle thing is as dumb as the rest of the ideas I've heard. But it's good there are so many different oil companies so we can all buy what we want to. I'm willing to bet that after 350,000 miles that Mobil 1 (any weight) will not destroy your engine. As a matter of fact it will probably be cleaner inside than anything else.
I would say Valvoline has accomplished what they set out to do, at least with everyone on this board.
i agree 100% with johnny, especially about the Valvoline Marketing Group success. when i argue with other engineers, we typically use numbers (sometimes even when it's about who is going to pick up the check). i have seen no numbers here, besides Ashland's, which disappoints me. sure M1 has always had higher Fe readings, but it has higher Fe even in 0w40, which i don't think anyone would suspect was "watered down". so far the only numbers this whole bruhaha has been based on are Ashland's. gonna trust a competitor's marketing department???
i was quite disappointed when Exxon bought Mobil, and i watch the company that hires drunken supertanker captains like a hawk. there are several very good oils on the market, and give me one GOOD reason to leave and i will be pouring PP and RLI faster than you can blink. i haven't, however, seen a good reason yet...
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Originally Posted By: Johnny
I'm willing to bet that after 350,000 miles that Mobil 1 (any weight) will not destroy your engine.
I don't know Johnny. I wish NOW that I had taken better care of my 1886 Toyota pickup. The day I brought it home from the dealer I drained the OEM 30 grade oil and replaced it with a 50 grade oil. At 20,000 miles I replaced it with a 50 grade synthetic. At 40,000 miles I replaced it with Mobil 1 15W-50 synthetic. At 5000 miles I drained the transmission and differential gear lube and replaced it with Mobil and Amsoil gear lube and do so every 25,000 miles. I change the air filter and fuel filter around 6000 miles. Now it only has 300,334 miles on it an I am starting to have trouble. Just this week I had to replace the rotor in the distributor. I had to replace the voltage regulator and the belt. I suspect the radio has a loose connection somewhere, and, there is a large rust panel in the right rear fender. I might make 350,000 on Mobil and Amsoil but I am starting to have doubts.
I'm willing to bet that after 350,000 miles that Mobil 1 (any weight) will not destroy your engine.
I don't know Johnny. I wish NOW that I had taken better care of my 1886 Toyota pickup. The day I brought it home from the dealer I drained the OEM 30 grade oil and replaced it with a 50 grade oil. At 20,000 miles I replaced it with a 50 grade synthetic. At 40,000 miles I replaced it with Mobil 1 15W-50 synthetic. At 5000 miles I drained the transmission and differential gear lube and replaced it with Mobil and Amsoil gear lube and do so every 25,000 miles. I change the air filter and fuel filter around 6000 miles. Now it only has 300,334 miles on it an I am starting to have trouble. Just this week I had to replace the rotor in the distributor. I had to replace the voltage regulator and the belt. I suspect the radio has a loose connection somewhere, and, there is a large rust panel in the right rear fender. I might make 350,000 on Mobil and Amsoil but I am starting to have doubts.
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