So K&N Air Filters are bad??? (NOOB Question)

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I ran a K&N filter off and on for over a year. I just put it back in again, maybe to stay this time. It DEFINITELY gives my car more power and acceleration, which I like. It doesn't improve the MPGs a bit, but power, yes, it surely does, and it's very noticeable.

I asked Blackstone Labs, the lab that does my UOAs about K&N filters and if they cause increased engine wear, and here's what they said :

It's unusual to see problems in engines running K&N air filters, so feel free to continue to use it.
 
At K&N's website you can enter the year, make and model of your car and it will give you the approximate HP increase to expect by using a K&N AF.

The OEM air filters of some cars are quite restrictive, which I suspect mine is, and I think that's why I notice such a marked HP increase when I run the K&N AF.
 
My experience with K&N is that they pass more dirt than a quality paper element. Your engine will wear faster than if you use a quality paper element. However, a clean K&N may make a little more flow, depending on your air box, than the paper element. Most data I have seen would indicate the benefit at best may be 1-2%. Since this only occurs at full throttle, it is of no benefit on a street car. If you do drag racing, autocross, or track driving, it may be of some benefit. My cars that have run K&N since near new consume more oil than the ones that have had a steady diet of paper elements. Also I have had a MAF failure only on a K&N equipped car-BMW and also have run K&N without MAF problem-chevy. The K&N is not environmentally friendly since you have to clean it with solvents or soaps. The filter clearly has holes in it when held to a light (some paper elements do as well). Once you run it for awhile the holes fill up, but also the flow reduces. Most tests indicate a good paper element can hold more dirt and flow more longer than the K&N. I believe K&N sizes the element to flow the amount air required but not so large to pass too much dirt. That is why the pleats in the element are smaller and wider than the comparable paper element. If you clean it too often it will pass too much dirt, only by allowing it to load up is the average performance approaching that of a paper element. I have run K&N on off road motorcycles, cars, and trucks. I no longer run them in any daily driver vehicles.
 
so by full throttle, what if I drive a stick and have my throttle open completely in fith gear, should it increase my hp?
 
If they pass more dirt into a car motor, it seems to me that it would have to show up in the UOA in one way or another, and according to Blackstone Labs, it does not, so at least in my case, I think the K&N gets the thumbs up.
 
place a K&N between you and a BRIGHT light and that should be more than enough to make you not want to use it.

AEM DRYFLOW is what i'm using. May not be as free flowing, but 560CFM is enough for many cars. Saw a 1-2mpg boost in gas mileage with it.
 
not poosible

Originally Posted By: 9krpmrx8
I didn't read most of the thread but the owner of an RX8 race team told us they use the factory Mazda Air Filter because when running the K&N at some of the dirtier tracks they actually had sand and dirt build up in the oil pan after the race. I then read [censored] near the same statement from another KONI challenge crew member and it was enough for me to ditch mine.
 
*shrugs* I normally use Toyota OEM air filters in my Camry, though I have experimented with Purolator ones. The Toyota ones seem a bit better made and a bit thicker. Presumably this would be better in dusty Arizona.

The local dealer charges $25 for an engine air filter, but the Toyota dealer near my parents house in California charges $18. I go back there once a year for Christmas, so I usually pick up a few and bring them back to Tucson.

I can't really see any major benefit to using a K&N filter, unless one considers long-term costs (i.e. paper filters may cost more over several years compared to a K&N), but even so it's merely a matter of a relatively small amount of money over the life of the car.
 
I will say that the latest K&N I looked at looked denser than the old ones I have. Still, overoiling aside, in light of the better stuff that's out there and my improved knowledge base, I just can't get behind them any more. Let's look at it from three viewpoints. And since K&N isn't the only company offereing oiled cotton gauze (OCG)fitler, I'm just going to use that terminology rather than just putting K&N down.

Performance: No doubt the average OCG filter will flow more air than a stock filter. From here it depends on whether we are talking about a replacement element or a tuned intake system. With regards to a performance element in a stock intake system, bear in mind that whatever restrictions exist are most often with the plumbing, not the filter. Seldom do you see any gains with a replacement OCG and, if you do, they come at the upper rpm range where not many stock engines go and the people driving those stock engines are seldom inclined to go. The full systems do a bit better, because they eliminate the plumbing issues, but unless the stock intake system is pretty poorly designed (not seen very often these days), the gains are still pretty modest and, again, mostly at the upper rpm range. Sometimes the way the new performance system is made offers some gains in the midrange. If you put an intake system on a modified engine where the airflow needs were increased by EFI tuning, major exhaust mods, cams, etc, and it was having a hard time pulling through the OE filer, then you would likely see a gain... or rather less loss... by replacing the OE system with a free flowing one. Fuel economy is minimally effected, if at all, by less intake restriction.

Convenience/Longevity: No arguing with the "forever" aspects of a OCG. When it gets dirty, you clean it. No more buying filters. That's a good thing. BUT, OCG isn't the only game in town in that regard. There are cleanable dry media filters too, most of which filter better than OCG (though don't flow as well)

Filtering Ability: This is the sticky wicket IMO. Do OCG filter well? IMO, and compared to other media, no. Do they filter "well enough" for many applications? Generally yes, IMO. A street car not driven in dusty conditions will likely not have short or long term issues related to filtering with OCG. If in a dirty environment, like a working truck, an off-roader or even a car that lived in a dirty place, UOAs seem to show a higher level of silica in the oil. Not good and possibly a long-term killer. In my own case, I had visible grit in the intake tract of my off-road rig that was equipped with an OCG filter. That cured me of OCG. There are plenty of efficiency numbers to compare if you look around. You can buy some 99.9 % dry filters out there. They may not flow quite as well as an OCG of equal size, so if you want performance, the answer is simple; increase the area of the filter media to compensate. Me, I'll opt for filtering ability over a fractional power increase every time for my rigs.
 
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Jim :

Yours is about the best reply I've seen in this thread Re: K&N AFs.

For my application, I think a K&N AF will serve me just fine. It gives my Sentra extra guts on the rare occasion that I want to have it.
 
and I can really feel it.....
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When you are a perf tech at a Ford/Linc/Merc dealership, you will quickly get acquanted with K&N filters.

Lean codes on a Mustang........look for a K&N sticker on a window. The problem with any oiled air filter is there is a fine line between too much and not enough oil on the gauze. With a MAF system it is a problem. I saw dust in the intakes from underoiled filters, and trashed MAFs from over oiled filters.

There are better solutions than oiled gauze for air filter media. K&N is a marketing giant.
 
Originally Posted By: Lurch
I ran a K&N filter off and on for over a year. I just put it back in again, maybe to stay this time. It DEFINITELY gives my car more power and acceleration, which I like. It doesn't improve the MPGs a bit, but power, yes, it surely does, and it's very noticeable.

I asked Blackstone Labs, the lab that does my UOAs about K&N filters and if they cause increased engine wear, and here's what they said :

It's unusual to see problems in engines running K&N air filters, so feel free to continue to use it.


The lab has no way of knowing what filter is on what lab sample. Any comment like that is personal opinion and to my mind takes away from the objectivity that a lab should demonstrate.
 
Originally Posted By: widman

The lab has no way of knowing what filter is on what lab sample.


They do if I tell them so, which I always do. They told me there's no elevated silicon due to increased particle intake due to an air filter. Seems pretty cut & dry to me.
 
Ive been using K&N and K&N type AF for 15 years and never had a problem, not a fried MAF, never had a vehicle use a drop of oil, nothing. If these filters are so bad, where are all the ruined engines because of it? They get the same rep as people who still claim Pennzoil/Quaker State will gum up and kill engines.
 
Originally Posted By: calvinnnnnnnnn
place a K&N between you and a BRIGHT light and that should be more than enough to make you not want to use it.

AEM DRYFLOW is what i'm using. May not be as free flowing, but 560CFM is enough for many cars. Saw a 1-2mpg boost in gas mileage with it.


I can hold lots of things up and see light through whatever I hold up.
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Light is an amazing thing.
crackmeup2.gif
 
But, where are these dead engines? K&N have been around for over 40 years, not counting the other companies that sell these type of filters. I dont think a flashlight is going to prove scientifically that they are bad. But again, where is the proof? There is plenty proof that there are hundreds of thousands of vehicles running these filters.





Originally Posted By: postjeeprcr
Originally Posted By: calvinnnnnnnnn
place a K&N between you and a BRIGHT light and that should be more than enough to make you not want to use it.

AEM DRYFLOW is what i'm using. May not be as free flowing, but 560CFM is enough for many cars. Saw a 1-2mpg boost in gas mileage with it.


I can hold lots of things up and see light through them. Light is an amazing thing.
 
Originally Posted By: bigmike
You mention K&N around here and it's like saying you use a Fram oil filter.

I'll keep using K&N, just like I have for the last 15 years.


Exactly and its sacrilege on this site if you mention you use a K&N filter and a Fram Extra Guard oil filter.
 
Originally Posted By: Jason2007
But, where are these dead engines? K&N have been around for over 40 years, not counting the other companies that sell these type of filters. I dont think a flashlight is going to prove scientifically that they are bad. But again, where is the proof? There is plenty proof that there are hundreds of thousands of vehicles running these filters.





Originally Posted By: postjeeprcr
Originally Posted By: calvinnnnnnnnn
place a K&N between you and a BRIGHT light and that should be more than enough to make you not want to use it.

AEM DRYFLOW is what i'm using. May not be as free flowing, but 560CFM is enough for many cars. Saw a 1-2mpg boost in gas mileage with it.


I can hold lots of things up and see light through them. Light is an amazing thing.


Do not ask me, I agree with you. I have a K&N in all of my vehicles and everyone in my family has one. I have never had a problem with any of them. They wouldn't still be around if they were as bad as people on here try to make them seem.
 
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