Snow tires worth it?

[calvin1]

Originally Posted By: y_p_w

And nobody seems to have mentioned possibly the most important thing when it comes to snow traction, which is contact pressure. I've heard of some tires of the same size (and even same tread pattern like the M+S and summer version of the Pirelli P Zero Nero) where the better snow traction came from a smaller contact patch due to different carcass construction. A lot of people getting winter tires go to narrower tires and I've even heard of using smaller wheels (if it still fits over the brakes/rotors). Often a heavier vehicle does better in the snow if the tires aren't way oversized. Then there's weight distribution on FWD vehicles which can be heavily biased towards the front. It's certainly important to get traction on the drive wheels to start moving, but a lot of people seem to forget that often the start of trouble is when the non-driven tires lose traction which causes the driven tires to break loose.


The narrower width allows the tire to "saw" through the snow better. I always laugh at the fools out in the snow with the "monster truck" setups that have the big high-float mud tires. With mud there's no bottom to dig towards so you really do want to float but on snow the snowshoe effect is not a good thing.

 

[deeter16317]

Originally Posted By: Ken2
Originally Posted By: deeter16317
Originally Posted By: IndigoToy
Originally Posted By: AuthorEditor
The driver is a lot more important than the tires.




Here is where the drivers knowldege of the laws of physics come into play.

When you need to stop you still have only 4 wheels like any other car on the road and all vehicles require stopping distances that increase proportionate to the speed they are travelling.




THE DRIVER is the single most important element...

I have owned 4wd vehicles my entire life, and for what its worth, you can stop faster in snow (with a locked 4wd system) than a typical car...two reasons:

#1 the locked 4wd system over-rides the antilock brakes...thereby allowing more stopping power (and the DRIVER to feather the brakes without the antilock releasing/engaging the brakes).

#2 the locked 4wd system essentially locks all the wheels together, so if you have one wheel that is slipping/trying to slide (due to road conditions or even a grabby brake), it doesn't slide because the other three wheels with traction FORCE it to keep rotating...a sliding tire has less traction than a rolling tire.

And again, the main factor is the DRIVER, and that they know their cars (and their own) limitations.

This is one of the goofiest things I've ever read. The 4wd system does not overright the ABS. ABS doesn't necessarily allow one to stop shorter, but it certainly does allow one to steer to maintain control while braking to the max.

A locked 4wd system does not lock all four wheels. It locks the front and rear drive shafts together. Open differentials still allow each wheel on that axle to turn at independent speeds. Limited slip or locker differentials lock together the wheels on each axle if that type of differential is fitted.

I have real winter tires, locked 4wd, rear LS diff, AND ABS, and I wouldn't have it any other way.




Do you want a cookie? I have a Dodge 2500 4wd with studded snows on all four corners, rear LSD, and ABS...and it'll stop faster every single time in 4wd.

A locked 4wd will not allow the ABS to function the way it was designed...you have not paid too much attention to that detail while driving? We are talking a truck sitting on the ground, not one suspended on a hoist.

I lived most of my life in the snow belt...been there, done that. I'll take a car without ABS over one with ABS any day of the week. I've owned trucks with and without ABS...in snow, a truck without ABS will stop faster everytime. ABS was developed for dry pavement and those people who can't operate a brake pedal for themselves (sorta like chewing gum and walking, some people can't do it). Basically what I'm saying, is the car's got to be smarter/safer because the typical turn-key driver is getting dumber.

 

[deeter16317]

Originally Posted By: calvin1

The narrower width allows the tire to "saw" through the snow better. I always laugh at the fools out in the snow with the "monster truck" setups that have the big high-float mud tires. With mud there's no bottom to dig towards so you really do want to float but on snow the snowshoe effect is not a good thing.



One of the best "snow" tires I ever used (way before studded snow tires could be had for a light truck) were a set of 255x85r16 Cooper Discoverer LTs...they were really tall and very narrow.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: y_p_w
I think the typical heavy siping in winter tires might compensate for the hydrophilic properties of the rubber compounds used.

Yup. Also, because the tread blocks are small, there is less rubber in contact with the road, which in turn increases the pressure on the parts that are in contact.


Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Personally I'd think the heavy siping in winter tires might not be ideal when there are clear conditions (even if it's cold) such as winter days without snow on the ground or when it's wet. I thought that too much siping makes it a little squirmy and siping always seems to cause strange wear patterns where the forward section of a tread block wears faster than the trailing section at the sipe.

Exactly.

Winter tires usually grip harder than you'd think because they are made of very soft rubber (which of course also means they wear VERY quickly on warm, dry roads). They do handle poorly, though.

 

[Smokescreen]

Speed is often the most important factor in winter driving. Posted speed limits are ddor optimal road conditions, often slowing down can make up for any inadequacies a good set of tires have.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Smokescreen
Speed is often the most important factor in winter driving. Posted speed limits are ddor optimal road conditions, often slowing down can make up for any inadequacies a good set of tires have.

True, but sometimes it's the other driver's incompetence or overconfidence that can put you in harm's way. In such cases, proper tires can help you move out of his way more effectively, be it turning, stopping, accelerating, or a combination of all three.

 

[Nayov]

I just had installed a pair of General Altimax Arctic snows on my 2WD truck and there is absolutely no squirm at all, which was pleasantly surprising. I hate wishy-washy handling, so what a relief that was. Maybe they amped-up the air pressure, I'll have to check that. I also had an alignment (which they upsold) so maybe that helped. I know I should get them for the front too. That video posted above was an eyeopener.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Smokescreen
Speed is often the most important factor in winter driving. Posted speed limits are ddor optimal road conditions, often slowing down can make up for any inadequacies a good set of tires have.

True, but sometimes it's the other driver's incompetence or overconfidence that can put you in harm's way. In such cases, proper tires can help you move out of his way more effectively, be it turning, stopping, accelerating, or a combination of all three.


In my experience you can drive cautiously but should never drive scared. Keep a good distance between cars and accelerate and brake very gently. My experience driving in the snow tells me that it's all about keeping proper momentum. When I've slowed down too much it can be pretty hard to get started again.

I remember sliding around in a parking lot once. I was OK as long as I was coasting, but once I hit the brakes too hard I started sliding around until I came to a stop.