Smokers, we're getting $crewed again......

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Schmoe
WE few are the cigarette elite: Connoiseurs who reject the chemical laden, ertsaz tobacco in prepackaged cigarettes for the pure stuff, even if it is cheaper. (Aren't we just.)

OH, you're the ELITE CONNOISEURS. I'm sorry, I was worried that the carcinogens you were blowing in my face might have been the sorry stuff of the lower classes. Glad to know you're more selective than that. Carry on.

 

[cven]

I have no problem with taxing smoking to the point that smokers are forced to quit. I also have no problem taxing junk and fast food to the point that it's not affordable.




Man...This kind of thinking is Scary stuff!!

 

[Schmoe]

OH, you're the ELITE CONNOISEURS. I'm sorry, I was worried that the carcinogens you were blowing in my face might have been the sorry stuff of the lower classes. Glad to know you're more selective than that. Carry on. [/quote]

Obviously you have no idea as to what kind of chemicals the premade cigarettes have in them. Theres humidifying agents, color agents, anti-static agents, etc. etc. There have been over 3000 known chemicals used in post harvesting. The make your own tobacco is straight out of curing and into the pouch you buy for making your own. Now, they passed the FSC (fire safe cigarette)that have even more chemicals laden onto them. The difference between a premade and a make your own is like between night and day. I'm not condoning smoking to anyone, even my children, I tell them to stay away from tobacco (I smoke outside and not in the house BTW). But if your going to smoke, smoke smart. Also, the premade smokes are made from sheet tobacco, which is pretty much left over floor sweepings from dealers after they buy the good stuff.

 

[ViragoBry]

C'mon guys, smokin' makes you secksy!

 

[Shannow]

This year, in our log of claims for negotiation of a new enterprise agreement, it's been proposed that non smokers get an extra week's annual leave, to reflect the lost productivity of the smokers.

We won't get it, for sure, but it at least raises the issue that these people cost business a LOT of lost time.

I'd prefer they took a week's leave off the smokers.

 

[Pop_Rivit]

Originally Posted By: Schmoe
Works for me. Let those who are obese and/or dumb enough to smoke pay for their health choices so I'm not forced to pay for their poor choices.

So, I am assuming your &ods gift to health, then? I'm sure if I looked in your closets, dirty laundry will be found.



I have no problem with taxing smoking to the point that smokers are forced to quit. I also have no problem taxing junk and fast food to the point that it's not affordable. Both smoking and obesity are disgusting choices and both show a lack of character. I'll maintain my health so your healthcare rates aren't raised and I expect the same from you.

...a lack of character? Boy, you just crack me up. Your argument is pretty selfish at best, along with arrogant.

[


Yes, anyone dumb enough to smoke or let themselves get obese suffers from a lack of character. It's real simple, put down the smokes, and don't have that biggie sized whopper and fries.

At 63 years old I try to jog at least 50 miles/week. I exercise on a regular basis and only see my doctor for annual wellness visits. I don't eat junk food, processed food or fast food. I do carefully watch my diet and make sure it's balanced. If you can find dirty laundry in that please feel free to do so.

So what part of my statement is selfish? The part about not wanting to support your smoking habit via my healthcare dollars? The part about not wanting to support people who choose to stuff their face with greaseburgers from McDonalds or suck on tobacco? You are correct, when it comes to other peoples bad habits I don't want to pay for them, so if that is selfish then I'll gladly wear the label.

 

[Pop_Rivit]

Originally Posted By: Schmoe
But if your going to smoke, smoke smart.


That may be one of the most bizarre statements I've ever heard.

At least this thread is good for a lot of laughter (which is also good for my health!).

 

[moribundman]

Pop_Rivet, kudos to you for your common sense approach regarding a long and healthy life. Please keep in mind, if the majority of folks were doing what you're doing, the health insurance industry and the junk food industry et al would be a lot smaller and less influential, and surely we can't have that!

 

[Schmoe]

Glad you find it funny when the Government is raising taxes, right after they said they wouldn't. Regardless of your health choices and/or opinionated stance, it isn't fair. Let's make it all fair and ludicrously raise a 2000% tax on something you enjoy, say jogging shoes. Not all share you same sentiment on jogging. I think all that jarring from running will eventually result in some orthopedic problems. However, I do applaud your exercise regimen for your age. If we all did that, I'm sure half the population would have heart attacks. I don't jog, but I do frequent the gym a lot and do low impact workouts. It has helped my back/neck problems significantly, to whereas I don't have to visit the chiropractor as often.
The thing about smoke smart is just that, know what your putting in your body and thus, the comments on the chemical additives. They are numerous and generally unaware of by the public. It's the same as PVC in the environment, it's everywhere. If you were to do a bloodtest and had the machines calibrated low enough, PVC will show up.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Schmoe
Obviously you have no idea as to what kind of chemicals the premade cigarettes have in them.

That's fine, and it's good to know there are standards. The point I was trying to make is that it's still cigarette smoke.

Unlike some people, I don't care what you do to yourself. Your health is entirely your responsibility, and I will never claim to have a say in what you do with it (although I'm glad you're paying attention). What I care about is the second-hand smoke. When you breathe it out, it just diffuses freely. It doesn't obey your intentions as the smoker, and people can't just look away from it or rationalize their way out of it. It's harmful to people who have nothing to do with your smoking habit. That is true no matter what is in the cigarette.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Schmoe
Let's make it all fair and ludicrously raise a 2000% tax on something you enjoy, say jogging shoes.

I don't meant to be rude, but comparisons like this really don't help your credibility.

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Smoking isn't a need, nor can it reasonably be considered a need (unlike things like cars and gasoline and food). That's what people mean by this tax being "optional".

Moreover, smoking carries direct, demonstrable harm to others. Taxes are, among many things, a way to mitigate the costs associated with such harm.

As far as what's right, frankly, there never should have been a right to smoke in the first place.

Absolutely mind boggling! How about the right to rock climb or parachute or box or play football or drive a car...

Isn't it very nice that the government can randomly put higher taxes on things that it considers to be bad. How about extra taxes on sugar drinks like they have in New York? Fast food bans or limitations?

Removing people's individual rights all in the name of minimizing "health care costs"?? Where does it stop?

It is completely astounding to me how people will beg, plead and argue to have their rights taken from them.

 

[d00df00d]

Hazardous sports don't affect anyone except those who positively choose to take part. Smoking affects everyone in the smoker's airspace, whether they want to take part or not. It's one person's freedom to choose vs. everyone else's freedom from a health hazard. This is exactly the kind of problem that laws and government are supposed to solve.

 

[Tempest]

Hazardous drivers affect everyone around them. Should we ban cars?

You also have 40 years studies that have conclusions like:
Quote:
The results do not support a causal relation between environmental tobacco smoke and tobacco related mortality, although they do not rule out a small effect. The association between exposure to environmental tobacco smoke and coronary heart disease and lung cancer may be considerably weaker than generally believed.

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/326/7398/1057

And:
Quote:
One public service announcement proclaims, "When you smoke, you're not the only one being harmed."

That's not a myth. Studies that followed nonsmokers who lived with smokers found some increase in lung cancer and heart disease. But they studied people who were exposed to lots of smoke, often shut in with chain smokers for years in claustrophobic situations like homes and cars. Even then, some of the studies found no effect. Nevertheless it's been enough to launch a movement to ban smoking most everywhere.

Quote:
Dr. Michael Siegel, a leading advocate of bans on smoking in the workplace because of the harm from daily exposure to secondhand smoke, says the 20 or 30 minute claims are ridiculous.

"If someone is just exposed for 30 minutes, it's completely reversible, and it's not gonna cause hardening of the arteries," Siegel said.

Siegel, who helped ban smoking in restaurants and bars, now says his movement is distorting science.

The Crusade
"It has turned into more of a crusade," Siegel said. "The cause has kind of taken over."

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Stossel/Story?id=1955237&page=1

So is second hand smoke bad for you? Yes. How bad it is for you is a major question.

For the record I'm a non-smoker and think that's nuts to do but I also think people have the right to do it.

Reminds me of the AGW movement and the same motives.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
At 63 years old I try to jog at least 50 miles/week. I exercise on a regular basis and only see my doctor for annual wellness visits. I don't eat junk food, processed food or fast food. I do carefully watch my diet and make sure it's balanced. If you can find dirty laundry in that please feel free to do so.



Yes ..but do you still beat your wife?

j/k - but I would suggest that using ONLY your criteria for a measure of character is somewhat "one dimensional" and that you can be Pol Pot with a vengeance and be healthy as a horse.

Just

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Quote:
At 63 years old I try to jog at least 50 miles/week. I exercise on a regular basis and only see my doctor for annual wellness visits. I don't eat junk food, processed food or fast food. I do carefully watch my diet and make sure it's balanced. If you can find dirty laundry in that please feel free to do so.



Yes ..but do you still beat your wife?

j/k - but I would suggest that using ONLY your criteria for a measure of character is somewhat "one dimensional" and that you can be Pol Pot with a vengeance and be healthy as a horse.

Just

That was my sentiment as well. Judging someone's character simply based on the fact they're

overweight or smoke is preposterous.

Rod Blagojevich jogs quite a bit and eats a healthy diet.

 

[Gary Allan]

For me the bottom line is "where do you stop?". Smoking and alcohol are just easy targets. In both cases the apparent goal is not neutralizing the environment for impact, but actually changing the behavior.

The reason why they are targeted, imo, is that they're suited well for being sinks/repositories for society-wide displaced anxiety.

Effectively making sin-eaters for other character defects of the society's members.

I was in the Capital building on "the vacation from -ell" with the kids when they were younger. There are signs all over the place (quite distinctive in appointments) stating "no pictures". I raised my camera to look through the lens (tele) and EVERYONE ..from the tour guide (we weren't with them) to the students (all around 13-15 years old) to the teacher (another group) ..ALL BLURTED OUT ...NO PICTURES!!!!.

I made their day in enforcing their little part in "correcting behavior". They were all part of the team and did their duty "for the good of humanity". I afforded them just a little civic pride in cleaning up America.

 

[01rangerxl]

I don't agree with an increase of tobacco taxes, but really, you tobaccy smokers still have it easy. You can buy your favorite plant legally at tons of stores!

 

[edhackett]

This poem is appropriate to this discussion:

In Germany, first they came for the communists and I did not speak out - because I was not a communist.

Then they came for the Jews and I did not speak out - because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out - because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Catholics and I did not speak out - because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak for me."

Pastor Martin Niemoeller.



Ed

 

[cousincletus]

Yep, and stay off that motorcycle, quit smoking, lose some weight off yer fat a$$, make sure you exercise X hours a day, etc.