Sludge removal project (with pics)

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Originally Posted By: Spyder7
According to the VOAs on it, PP has over 3,000 units of calcium in it. Thats lab analysis, not marketing hype. Its why I believe it to be more effective than dinos at breaking up the sludge for the filter to trap. I will contrast it with GTX, as this was my old standby in the past and a regular Walmart rollback, which has just over 2,000 parts calcium.

GTX, on its usual rollback, is $11 for 5 quarts here. PP was $19. Except for PYB and Supertech (which have also been rolled back lately), the PP is $3 to $4 more than the rest of the dinos available at Walmart.

I have enough PP on hand for 2 OCs, plus enough Syntec for a 3rd. Given the relatively low price (PP is regularly $35 here, as are most other syns) it made more sense to use the better product that I have on hand than to buy dino that I dont - especially since it looks like PP will be staying at half price for awhile. For as long as this rollback lasts, it makes no sense at all to buy any dino when its money that could be spent stockpiling PP while the half price rollback continues.

Once the goldmine is over (which will be around the time Ultra arrives I am predicting), I will see how much PP I have stockpiled, and then I may consider buying dino again. But theres no way I am buying dino while PP is half price. From a rational economic standpoint, that is a total waste of money (contrary to what common sense would seem to dictate).

Edit: aside from the above, I consider this a project and I like to try and inject some fun into them. Trying PP for the first time to see how it does is part of the fun. The point of the project isnt to do it as cheaply as possible, nor is it to evaluate the merits of MMO. If an extra $8 bucks fits within the scope of what I am trying to achieve, to me its 8 bucks well spent and I wont lose any sleep on it. I spend more than that on a Bluray disc destined to be watched once and entertain for 90 minutes. The PP will be doing its thing over the course of hundreds of hours of driving.

-Spyder


Sounds like you did your homework, good luck with the clean up.
 
Pics from today:

Old stuff out:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/spyder73/4901934929/

Not Pepsi in these 2L bottles:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/spyder73/4902520188/

Oil fill cap showing deposits underneath:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/spyder73/4902520364/

PP ready to go in (some of this bottle had been poured into a smaller 1L bottle that was used for top up):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/spyder73/4901935551/

No joy on getting the valve cover off. It felt welded to the cylinder head (I think it has never been removed since it left the factory). I could have forced it off, but a little bit risky for pics.

-Spyder
 
I did. I didnt want to hit it any harder just to take a pic. :)

Maybe in 3,000 miles when the next OC is due and I dont have to spend 3 hours of the project time on a retarded oil extraction kit :p

Using that thing felt like a tryout from [censored] for the wrong kind of porn flic.
blush.gif


-Spyder
 
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when i removed my lower oil pan on mine i had all of the bolts out and was kicking the thing to knock it loose, still didnt budge. eventually it popped off with some prying and nudging, but they really stick themselves on there after a while.
 
This one has had 10 years (through in the maritime climate with its heavy rains, humidity, and salt) to really weld itself into place. And I thought the PCV valve was a [censored] to remove.

My new neighbour is a mechanic, if I catch him out having a smoke at the right time I can see if he can give me a hand getting it off. One of the bolts on the plastic engine cover needed to be pried off with slot screwdriver (corroded, possibly threads stripped too) and socket - after that run of luck, and the force I was using to try and budge the valve cover, I felt I was pushing it today (the luck, or lack of).

-Spyder
 
Originally Posted By: Spyder7
This one has had 10 years (through in the maritime climate with its heavy rains, humidity, and salt) to really weld itself into place. And I thought the PCV valve was a [censored] to remove.

My new neighbour is a mechanic, if I catch him out having a smoke at the right time I can see if he can give me a hand getting it off. One of the bolts on the plastic engine cover needed to be pried off with slot screwdriver (corroded, possibly threads stripped too) and socket - after that run of luck, and the force I was using to try and budge the valve cover, I felt I was pushing it today (the luck, or lack of).

-Spyder


If it is that difficult to remove, and not leaking I wouldn't mess with it.
 
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If it is that difficult to remove, and not leaking I wouldn't mess with it.


that would defeat the whole purpose of getting a good look at how well the rotella and mmo work
 
Its a fun project, especially with PP being so cheap right now. My car seems to like it. I was impressed by how fast it cold started this morning and got up to operating temp. That doesn't make for a whole lot of difference right now, but once the temps start dropping come November, I think it'll add up to less engine wear.

An interesting byproduct of all of this (the PP, MMO, tc-w3, and planned Regane treatments every 5,000 km or so), will be whether or not it also happens to free the piston rings (this would be a bonus) up and thereby lower oil consumption. Over the previous 2,000 km oil consumption was 1L.

If after all this - including a planned MMO piston soak, and at least one UOA - if its still consuming oil like it is now (and assuming no sign of any leaks, which I haven't found or seen any evidence of so far), then I'll switch to MaxLife and see what that does. That's a last resort though (not because I don't like MaxLife - I do - but because I'd rather fix the cause than treat the symptoms).

Anyway, that's still a lot of "ifs" and "then." Right now I'm happy with how this old car is cleaning up and performing. 200,000+ miles on the original engine (with no rebuild) is the ultimate goal, and I think this car can do it.

-Spyder
 
i think if you add a good amount of MMO to the oil (16-32oz) you might actually get l ucky enough to free up the rings, but its a long shot.
 
My 2000 Corolla was a sludgy, oil burning mess at 100K, following the factory OCI.

seafoam in the crankcase and 3K OCIs for about a year have it losing only a 1/2 a quart every 3000 miles. Interested to see the outcome of this project.
 
Pretty much describes this engine to a tee. It gets 30 mpg, and performs well for what it is (a 1.8L sedan), but the engine is a mess and it has a thirst for oil.

I'll see where its at after the 2 planned 3K OCIs on high detergent syn & MMO. Then come a lot of ifs, depending on where its at in terms of sludge removed and oil consumption. If either, or both, are still an issue I may try Seafoam at that point. Another option, with or without the Seafoaming, is another series of OCIs but with some kind of diesel oil.

I'm giving it a year. If the oil consumption rate remains high, I can sell it and still break even. In the meantime I'll try just about anything (from gentle to harsher measures) to clean it out and decrease oil consumption.

-Spyder
 
Oil consumption now that I've put 1,000 km on it during this OCI, and checked it, is at about 400 ml. Possibly a slight drop, but what's more interesting is that 90% of those were highway km - where it drinks oil the fastest (previous OCI was 1L in 2,000 km but about 50/50 highway/city).

Maybe the PP is more resistant to burn off. Maybe the tc-w3 UCL treatment has freed the rings a bit. No idea, but hoping it continues to drop. I'm running a Regane cycle now so that I get several clean tanks run through it after, before I add the MMO.

Plan is still to add MMO for the last 500 km then change both the filter and oil out at 3k miles. PP will go back in, but I'm going to switch to a more cost effective filter (Napa Pro Select which I can get for $3 and change). WM is still selling PP for $19 a jug (I've discovered the key to getting it is to check different WMs), so it'll be all I run until the Spring. That 2nd OC will also get a MMO dosing for the last 500 km. TC-W3 will still be used as a UCL except when doing a Regane cycle (every 3-5,000 km for now).

View through the oil fill hole is still a mess, but I think I'm seeing less baked on sludge. Its a very minor difference at this stage though - just enough to suggest that some cleaning is taking place.

-Spyder
 
i wouldnt change it at 3000 miles unless its pretty dark because then you know its actually cleaning alot of [censored] out, if its not dark then it still has cleaning to do. you can add 16oz of MMO now to speed up the cleaning, wouldnt hurt.

i run MMO all the time in our honda that i did the MMO piston soak to. finally after im guessing 1500+ miles, it required 1/2qt to bring it back to full. not bad at all. ive cut the oil burning in half, and the longer it cleans the less it will burn.
 
Originally Posted By: Lethal1ty17
i wouldnt change it at 3000 miles unless its pretty dark because then you know its actually cleaning alot of [censored] out, if its not dark then it still has cleaning to do. you can add 16oz of MMO now to speed up the cleaning, wouldnt hurt.

i run MMO all the time in our honda that i did the MMO piston soak to. finally after im guessing 1500+ miles, it required 1/2qt to bring it back to full. not bad at all. ive cut the oil burning in half, and the longer it cleans the less it will burn.


I don't have it yet, but I should by the time the Regane cycle is complete. That'll put me about 1/3rd of the way into this 3k OCI. The PP & M1 EP filter are definitely good for more than 3k, but how far to push past that before I get better results by swapping it out, is the question. Right now these are just arbitrary numbers; and with my driving being more easy highway than city lately, the oil isn't being pushed very hard.

Regane darkened it a lot the last time I ran a cycle of it - I think because there was so much [censored] in the fuel system. This Regane treatment is a stronger one (full bottle on 10 gallons) than last time, and only 3,000 km since the last treatment (doing it early because I still think there's more gunk it can clean out).

I'll keep it in mind. Nothing is set in concrete as far as this goes - a lot of "playing it by ear" and tinkering/experimenting involved.

The most recent development was the increased highway because I think that's when the oil and any additives can clean best. Stop and go city is already subjecting it to a kind of torture treatment (some of that is unavoidable, but I'm still aiming for 80% highway on this OCI since I can incorporate it into my work commute).

-Spyder
 
keep in mind that the harder you run your engine, the more all of that stuff is gunna come out.

redlining an engine isnt a big deal. think of how much less valve guide deposits there would be if everyone redlined their cars frequently, it would be moving too fast through the intake guides for a majority of the stuff to accumulate.

im back in college now so i drive my car maybe once a week, but every time its driven she gets a redline or two, and it would happen multiple times every day through summer, when i had the intake manifold off and looked at the valves, they were pure, bare metal, not even stained. my car is 10 years old with 122,000 miles on it.
 
Originally Posted By: Spyder7
Pretty much describes this engine to a tee. It gets 30 mpg, and performs well for what it is (a 1.8L sedan), but the engine is a mess and it has a thirst for oil.

I'll see where its at after the 2 planned 3K OCIs on high detergent syn & MMO. Then come a lot of ifs, depending on where its at in terms of sludge removed and oil consumption. If either, or both, are still an issue I may try Seafoam at that point. Another option, with or without the Seafoaming, is another series of OCIs but with some kind of diesel oil.

I'm giving it a year. If the oil consumption rate remains high, I can sell it and still break even. In the meantime I'll try just about anything (from gentle to harsher measures) to clean it out and decrease oil consumption.

-Spyder


Hate to say it, but it's a Toyota. Doesn't really matter what you do, it will run basically forever. Seeliing it due to high oil consumption would be foolish - a few extra quarts of oil won't break you.
 
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