Slanderous Fram Orange Can Review
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Originally Posted by MONKEYMAN
He seems to be full of pudding.
Chocolate Pudding?
He seems to be full of pudding.
Chocolate Pudding?
Originally Posted by Bill_W
Moose turd pie.
You can see when he pulls the Fram apart the cardboard damage lines up with his grinder work, then he shows it as damaged. (From the factory?)
"Look, this cardboard was glued together and when I tore it, it ripped!" "Unbelievable!"
Moose turd pie.
You can see when he pulls the Fram apart the cardboard damage lines up with his grinder work, then he shows it as damaged. (From the factory?)
"Look, this cardboard was glued together and when I tore it, it ripped!" "Unbelievable!"
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
Other than filtering efficiency, is there any advantage to using a Fram Ultra over an OCOD for 5k mile intervals?
I say no there isn't. If anything there is a disadvantage. Some high capacity filters are not as efficient until some loading has taken place for a time.
It may actually be defeating the purpose if one uses high capacity filters for short intervals.
Other than filtering efficiency, is there any advantage to using a Fram Ultra over an OCOD for 5k mile intervals?
I say no there isn't. If anything there is a disadvantage. Some high capacity filters are not as efficient until some loading has taken place for a time.
It may actually be defeating the purpose if one uses high capacity filters for short intervals.
Originally Posted by Pinoak
Some high capacity filters are not as efficient until some loading has taken place for a time.
It may actually be defeating the purpose if one uses high capacity filters for short intervals.
Where's the data to support this theory?
Look at how ISO 4548-12 calculates the efficiency and you'll see there can't be much efficiency change at all over the "new to fully loaded" condition of high efficiency oil filters.
Some high capacity filters are not as efficient until some loading has taken place for a time.
It may actually be defeating the purpose if one uses high capacity filters for short intervals.
Where's the data to support this theory?
Look at how ISO 4548-12 calculates the efficiency and you'll see there can't be much efficiency change at all over the "new to fully loaded" condition of high efficiency oil filters.
Originally Posted by Pinoak
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
Other than filtering efficiency, is there any advantage to using a Fram Ultra over an OCOD for 5k mile intervals?
I say no there isn't. If anything there is a disadvantage. Some high capacity filters are not as efficient until some loading has taken place for a time.
It may actually be defeating the purpose if one uses high capacity filters for short intervals.
The problem with waiting for loading a filter to cause higher efficiency is that bypass due to total blockage happens pretty soon afterwards. True high efficiency filters have depth filtration, that's the best way to get efficiency.
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
Other than filtering efficiency, is there any advantage to using a Fram Ultra over an OCOD for 5k mile intervals?
I say no there isn't. If anything there is a disadvantage. Some high capacity filters are not as efficient until some loading has taken place for a time.
It may actually be defeating the purpose if one uses high capacity filters for short intervals.
The problem with waiting for loading a filter to cause higher efficiency is that bypass due to total blockage happens pretty soon afterwards. True high efficiency filters have depth filtration, that's the best way to get efficiency.
Originally Posted by bullwinkle
The problem with waiting for loading a filter to cause higher efficiency is that bypass due to total blockage happens pretty soon afterwards. True high efficiency filters have depth filtration, that's the best way to get efficiency.
Not all filters get more efficient with loading. My bet is most filters with a low efficiency rating are captured debris shredders as the delta-p increases with loading, which also contributes to a lower efficiency. Again, by definition of the ISO 4548-12 efficiency calculation method, a high efficiency filter can not shed much captured debris and still end up being 99% efficient at 20 microns.
The problem with waiting for loading a filter to cause higher efficiency is that bypass due to total blockage happens pretty soon afterwards. True high efficiency filters have depth filtration, that's the best way to get efficiency.
Not all filters get more efficient with loading. My bet is most filters with a low efficiency rating are captured debris shredders as the delta-p increases with loading, which also contributes to a lower efficiency. Again, by definition of the ISO 4548-12 efficiency calculation method, a high efficiency filter can not shed much captured debris and still end up being 99% efficient at 20 microns.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
All hat and no cattle … first thing to cross my mind is after blowing all that cash and time …
A grinder to cut them … Really ?
A grinder to cut them … Really ?
He'd fit right in on this board fifteen years ago. If I remember correctly, the original anti-Fram guy (the fired one who started the rumors on the MOPAR board) posted on here a couple of times then got ticked off and left when questioned. Fram's rise in reputation started when the company started responding to unfair criticism. A good lesson to anyone who thinks the correct way to respond to a crisis (especially if they listen to their lawyer) is to say "No comment".
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Originally Posted by Bill_W
I can not find the article Zee but while a filter does get more efficient when loading up it then falls off at a certain point when it gets overloaded and decreases efficiency.
I've never seen any article showing measured efficiency data proving that oil filters get more efficient with loading. I'd like to see that article.
I'm sure you've seen the Purolator/Hummel+Mann graph I've posted many times in these "oil filters get more efficient with loading" discussions, which shows efficiency dropping from the get go as loading and delta-p starts increasing. Then only increasing in efficiency when it's nearly clogged and the bypass valve opens shortly after. That's not any kind of "increased efficiency" in an oil filter that is useful.
I can not find the article Zee but while a filter does get more efficient when loading up it then falls off at a certain point when it gets overloaded and decreases efficiency.
I've never seen any article showing measured efficiency data proving that oil filters get more efficient with loading. I'd like to see that article.
I'm sure you've seen the Purolator/Hummel+Mann graph I've posted many times in these "oil filters get more efficient with loading" discussions, which shows efficiency dropping from the get go as loading and delta-p starts increasing. Then only increasing in efficiency when it's nearly clogged and the bypass valve opens shortly after. That's not any kind of "increased efficiency" in an oil filter that is useful.
Originally Posted by MONKEYMAN
He seems to be full of pudding.
hmm love me so tapioca
He seems to be full of pudding.
hmm love me so tapioca
I want those nine minutes back. Wasn't even an apple to orange as they weren't in same price point. Hideous looking hat and a shop with paint colour that screams 1960s. Saw a Chevy sign in there somewhere. Save that so when you go out in public you can hang from your rear view mirror as a handicapped parking sign.
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Depending on Youtube's current CPM rate, that guy and his 2 million view plus video has roughly made $6K dollars or even more. He does not have to be factual, just sensational and everybody that clicks on the video and watches has taken the bait. That guy does not care to be correct.
Originally Posted by Matagonka
So many people on the forums still bashing Fram. It's the ignorant ones who never bothered to open a single filter.
I've cut open an OCOD. I won't use them. It's not so much the quality in an absolute sense, it the relative quality. I can get a much more robust filter, particularly with metal end caps, for very nearly the same price. With that in mind, I just don't feel any motivation at all to try an Orange can on my car, no matter how well others report it has performed for them.
What cemented it for me, though, is that I was able to easily crush the Fram paper end cap element in my bare hand. It takes about the same effort as crushing an empty soda can, maybe a bit more. At least it did when I cut up that OCOD (2005-ish, I posted it here, I'm pretty sure). You simply can't do that with a metal end cap filter. In fairness, obviously, hand crushing doesn't really approximate the stresses upon the filter element in its intended use. Still, it's pretty shocking to feel it collapse so easily.
Now, credit where credit is due. Back when I decided "never Fram" for myself, they didn't have the gold can premium filter out. I can't say why they introduced this line, of course, but I have to think public criticism had something to do with it. It's to their great credit that they listened to customers and potential customers. Now, I actually intend to try one of these Gold filters in the future. So, while I was (am) really turned off by the Orange Can design, I readily acknowledge that the Gold Can looks like a great filter. My hat's off to Fram for introducing it.
So many people on the forums still bashing Fram. It's the ignorant ones who never bothered to open a single filter.
I've cut open an OCOD. I won't use them. It's not so much the quality in an absolute sense, it the relative quality. I can get a much more robust filter, particularly with metal end caps, for very nearly the same price. With that in mind, I just don't feel any motivation at all to try an Orange can on my car, no matter how well others report it has performed for them.
What cemented it for me, though, is that I was able to easily crush the Fram paper end cap element in my bare hand. It takes about the same effort as crushing an empty soda can, maybe a bit more. At least it did when I cut up that OCOD (2005-ish, I posted it here, I'm pretty sure). You simply can't do that with a metal end cap filter. In fairness, obviously, hand crushing doesn't really approximate the stresses upon the filter element in its intended use. Still, it's pretty shocking to feel it collapse so easily.
Now, credit where credit is due. Back when I decided "never Fram" for myself, they didn't have the gold can premium filter out. I can't say why they introduced this line, of course, but I have to think public criticism had something to do with it. It's to their great credit that they listened to customers and potential customers. Now, I actually intend to try one of these Gold filters in the future. So, while I was (am) really turned off by the Orange Can design, I readily acknowledge that the Gold Can looks like a great filter. My hat's off to Fram for introducing it.
Originally Posted by ekpolk
Now, credit where credit is due. Back when I decided "never Fram" for myself, they didn't have the gold can premium filter out. I can't say why they introduced this line, of course, but I have to think public criticism had something to do with it. It's to their great credit that they listened to customers and potential customers. Now, I actually intend to try one of these Gold filters in the future. So, while I was (am) really turned off by the Orange Can design, I readily acknowledge that the Gold Can looks like a great filter. My hat's off to Fram for introducing it.
It's called the Ultra, which is the "XG" line of Fram oil filters.
Now, credit where credit is due. Back when I decided "never Fram" for myself, they didn't have the gold can premium filter out. I can't say why they introduced this line, of course, but I have to think public criticism had something to do with it. It's to their great credit that they listened to customers and potential customers. Now, I actually intend to try one of these Gold filters in the future. So, while I was (am) really turned off by the Orange Can design, I readily acknowledge that the Gold Can looks like a great filter. My hat's off to Fram for introducing it.
It's called the Ultra, which is the "XG" line of Fram oil filters.
GCOD it is, then! I was being deliberately vague, hoping not to dyslexify the nomenclature too badly. Call me lazy tonight -- it wouldn't have been THAT hard to go to their site and look it up.
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