Should I use MMO?

[Tobygot]

Hi, I just bought a '99 Saturn SW2 w/ 270,000 miles on it. The girl said it burns about 1 quart of oil per gas tank (12 gal. tank). She sais she fills when its at 1/4 tank.
So I figure it's burning 1 quart per 200 miles or so.
When I stuck my finger in the valve cover there was alot of black specks. The girl said it had been along time since she changed the oil filter. I'm assuming it has been running bypassed so that's why there would be flakes in there that would have been filtered.

I would like to flush the engine. I figure I would have to buy at least 4 bottles of Auto-RX with this amount of oil burning and it doesn't make sense to me to spend that much on a car I spent $300 on.

So, I was thinking I would change the oil and filter w/ 10w-30 and use a 16oz bottle of MMO and change the filter at 150 miles. Change oil and filter at 300 miles. Then change the oil again, or maybe just the filter after another 600 or 700 miles. Then possibly change to M1.

Or, I could just change to M1 and change the filter every 500 miles or so for a while. M1 is supposed to clean out your engine right? I'm only going to drive this car maybe 300 miles per month tops and a 5 quart bottle of M1 is $23.50 here so that doesn't seem too expensive.

Do either of these ideas sound good or would flushing be bad w/ an engine this old?

What would you do?

Thanks.

 

[expat]

Why did you buy it??
You might try a piston soak with MMO.
I personally would not waste M1 on that engine, I think it's going to be chronic oil burner.

 

[chubbs1]

I think you are on the right track with the filters, I would put an oil with a lot of Boron in it ie. Pennzoil Ultra, or M1 HM, change the filters out....oops wait, you are only going to drive the car 300 miles/month so AutoRx might not be a bad Idea. I would use with confidence as long as you FOLLOW DIRECTIONS TO A T. Not that you wouldn't even though you bought a Saturn w/270k on it...POW

Just playin man Welcome. I don't think you drive enough to worry about to much anyway

 

[Lethal1ty17]

if now isnt the time to use mmo idk what is.

those saturns are notorious for burning oil because of a bad piston ring design. do an mmo soak. when you get home take the spark plugs out, pour in about 1-2oz of mmo into each cylinder and let it sit around 8 hours, then crank it over without the plugs in to blow the excess out or do whatever you can to do so. start it up and drive. repeat if necessary.

i would also suggest running 20% mmo in your next fill. the cheapest jug of oil will work, the normal pennzoil yellow bottle stuff will work, run a few short oci's at probably 2000-3000 miles if its super dirty. i'd change the filter at least once during that interval, use something like apurolator classic, cheap and effective. if you have a filter with high efficiency it will just get plugged up fast and starve the engine of oil.

good luck.

 

[Tobygot]

I bought it to use as a beater. I like to keep my Expedition clean. It's spent most of it's life garaged and still looks brand new at 6.5 years old.
I live in Lake Havasu City, AZ so this car will be used for driving to the beach and the gun range which has some dirt road driving.
From the research I did prior to buying it, I found that most of the old Saturn's burn oil like crazy and still drive plenty of miles. It actually runs really good.
I figure for $300, If this car runs for another 10,000 miles or 3 years, I'll be happy.

 

[Spyder7]

Originally Posted By: Lethal1ty17
if now isnt the time to use mmo idk what is.

those saturns are notorious for burning oil because of a bad piston ring design. do an mmo soak. when you get home take the spark plugs out, pour in about 1-2oz of mmo into each cylinder and let it sit around 8 hours, then crank it over without the plugs in to blow the excess out or do whatever you can to do so. start it up and drive. repeat if necessary.

i would also suggest running 20% mmo in your next fill. the cheapest jug of oil will work, the normal pennzoil yellow bottle stuff will work, run a few short oci's at probably 2000-3000 miles if its super dirty. i'd change the filter at least once during that interval, use something like apurolator classic, cheap and effective. if you have a filter with high efficiency it will just get plugged up fast and starve the engine of oil.

good luck.


+1. This is sound advice. Piston soaks may need to be repeated a few times to work. LC20 (from Lubrizol) is another product some have had success with. I would go with Letha1ity's advice, and consider alternating MMO soaks with LC20 (doing each separately, and about 50 miles before your OC) until you see improvement.

Another product that looks promising is called Motor Oil Saver from Lubro Moly (you can get it at Napa or Amazon, among other places). I haven't used it yet - but I am planning on using it in my own oil burner after I've finished my own planned regimen of sludge cleaning and oil consumption reducing tricks.

MMO in oil thins it a bit, this is something to keep in mind depending on your climate and when you add it. If adding at a time of year when your OCI will be above freezing temps, I would step up to a thicker grade of oil to offset the thinning effect of a 20% MMO concentration (i.e., move up to a 5W40 oil if you plan to put MMO in and the car specs 5W30).

-Spyder

 

[chad8]

Originally Posted By: Lethal1ty17
if now isnt the time to use mmo idk what is.

those saturns are notorious for burning oil because of a bad piston ring design. do an mmo soak. when you get home take the spark plugs out, pour in about 1-2oz of mmo into each cylinder and let it sit around 8 hours, then crank it over without the plugs in to blow the excess out or do whatever you can to do so. start it up and drive. repeat if necessary.

i would also suggest running 20% mmo in your next fill. the cheapest jug of oil will work, the normal pennzoil yellow bottle stuff will work, run a few short oci's at probably 2000-3000 miles if its super dirty. i'd change the filter at least once during that interval, use something like a purolator classic, cheap and effective. if you have a filter with high efficiency it will just get plugged up fast and starve the engine of oil.

good luck.


you can do the same piston soak with seafoam or b-g quick clean.I would use a quart of mmo in a 300-500 mile oci after a dual piston soak and oil change . Then switch to hm oil.
All very good advise. Saturns oil control rings wear and stick. It is a known problem ,but at 270000 miles you are probably almost worn out. Do all the above and then do a compression test. That will at least give you an indicator of how bad it is.
After a couple piston soaks and short oci's I would switch to a heavier hm oil like maxlife. Your climate might do well with a 10w or 15w40. even delo or rotella t wouldn't be bad and they are cheap. Skip the m-1 or any synthetics unless you get them real cheap. Most are too thin and will burn a lot.I did a gallon of 10w30 semi synpower 4x4 at an estate sale for a buck that would have been o.k.

 

[demarpaint]

I'd use MMO w/o a doubt, however a 300-500 mile run with MMO to clean up an engine with 270,000 miles on it isn't going to do much.

Here's what I would do. A piston soak as already mentioned is a good idea. I would wait until its time to change the oil, add a pint of MMO at the last 500 miles of the OCI, then do the piston soak and change the oil and filter when you'e driven those last 500 miles of the OCI. Replace 20% of the oil with 20% of MMO, and drive 3000 miles. Then change the oil and filter. You can change the filter at the halfway point and top up with oil and 20% MMO. You can repeat this, if needed, or swith to a HM oil. Honestly I wouldn't waste the money on a good synthetic oil in a beater car with 270K miles on it.

Make sure you check the oil frequently and keep it topped it.

MMO is not a fast cleaner so using it for 300 miles won't accomplish much. Run it as I mentioned.

$300 isn't much to spend on a beater in fact I'd be happy if the $300 investment took me through the winter, anything after that is found money! Good luck with the clean up. Let us know how things go!

 

[Lethal1ty17]

i wouldnt use seafoam for a piston soak because it will also strip off any layer of oil between the piston and the cylinder so when you go to start it you effectively have bare metal on metal. mmo at least has some lubricating properties. and its much cheaper.

 

[Eastexan]

Personally, I would only change the oil & filter and not try to flush the engine. It can loosen up crud and maybe do more harm than good.

I bought an old pickup one time that looked to be in pretty good shape. I noticed the oil on the dipstick was really dirty, but thought I would flush it and put in fresh oil. I had done it before when buying used vehicles, and with good results.

But, was I ever wrong

!
After I flushed all the crud out, then the pickup smoked like a locomotive. I don't think the oil had ever been changed in it. Apparently the crud in the engine had been sealing some of the worn areas.

Being as the high mileage on your car and the fact they she was poor about changing oil, I would think there is an awfully lot of crud that may be sealing some worn areas in that engine, too. And I would consider the possibility that your oil pump pickup screen could get clogged up and starve your engine for oil.

I'm only saying that by flushing, you may or may not have good results.

JMHO

 

[mechtech2]

If you are going to use MMO for cleaning, you are right about shortening your oil change interval.
But I would give it a chance to work and use a full qt of MMO.
You should consider that MMO will thin the oil [could be a problem in warmer weather] , so compensate with a qt of heavy oil. [MMO is about a 5W]

A few flushes are most likely needed. But it is simple and safe. And not too expensive. You can get anybody's cheap oil on sale for this. I'd change the oil , filter, and use MMO instead of simply adding it now. And I'd go 500, then 1,000 miles on two changes with MMO.

 

[Lethal1ty17]

4qt of 5w30 + 1qt of mmo = around a 0w25 if i had to take an accurate guess. motor oil actually gets pretty thin at temperature, you'll notice this if you drain it out hot. my 5w30 edge came out like water after like 6k and a good run into town and back.

 

[901Memphis]

Grab some cheap pennzoil and i agree with the purolator classic running probably 2-3k per oil change won't hurt.

Theres likely to be a lot of junk in there that needs to be filters out so stay away from the high end filters until it runs clean.

The first oil filter may need to be changed very soon if theres that much flake in there. If it was me i would go 1k - 1.5k on the first oil change and probably go through 2 filters in that range.

Maybe use the MMO after you run the first batch of dino + a puro classic through it.

 

[Lethal1ty17]

honestly i cant see MMO hurting if it is ran in every single oil change in that engine for the next 2 years.

PYB ($12)
Purolator Classic ($3)
MMO ($13/gallon, enough for 4 OC's)

if its really dirty i'd do:
#1. 1.5k
#2. 2.5k
#3. 3k
#4. 3k
#5. 4k

something along those lines

 

[Spyder7]

My own preference, though the OPs experience with sludge seems worse than my own (and there are several good routes that lead to the same destination) is to run MMO seasonally (late fall & winter). The thinning effect is less pronounced in the winter time, as the engine spends much less time at operating temp. Also, more idling takes place in the winter and my trips are mostly short trips, with a lot less highway. In these conditions a little extra MMO style cleaning is a plus.

That said, my own first cycle of MMO began late this summer. It will continue throughout the winter, end in the spring, and resume just prior to next winter again.

But again, there are several approaches to the same destination. The only thing mentioned so far (by the OP) I tend to advise against is engine flushing products. Safer to clean sludge out gradually with something like MMO and short OCIs.

-Spyder

 

[Gary Allan]

I'll offer a different approach. I'd really not want to blow all that good oil in such short intervals.

I'd use your agent of choice:

If using MMO, go up a grade in viscosity. Use the 20% mix if you so desire. Go whatever mileage you can tolerate. You'll be adding plenty of oil along the way (1qt/tank, right?).

If using Auto-Rx, use the spec'd visc or whatever.


Buy lots of cheaper filters. Change them at the intervals everyone else is telling you to change the oil out. You'll be cycling the sump at a fairly high rate just due to the current level of consumption.


Forget the piston soaks for now unless you really have a whole lot of time on your hands and are bored. Add some MMO to the fuel

I'm sure someone said check/change the PCV valve. If you DON'T see evidence of blow-by vapors overwhelming the normal suction side of the system (no oil on the throttle body - or wherever the fresh air inlet integrates with the system) then it's good news. While you have to endure the design characteristics of the rings, they aren't worn/damaged to the point of REALLY pushing combustion vapors into the crankcase.

 

[Tobygot]

Thanks for all the advise. I thought thinner oil was better for cleaning out an engine so I was going to go w/ 5w30. I'm glad I posted. I'll look for 10w-40.
Autozone has Mobil 5000 on sale for $9.99 for 5 qt. bottles here. At that price I'm picking up 5 or 6 of them in the morning.

I'm a little unclear on the piston soak. I've heard to soak them for 30 min. all the way to 8 hr.??
If I try to turn it over w/ the plugs out do I need to also remove the fuel pump fuse? or would I only remove the fuse if I put the plugs back in?

Thanks

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
I thought thinner oil was better for cleaning out an engine


It may sling around a little better, but if you're using MMO to the 20% rate, you're cutting your visc a substantial amount. It may stay in grade

Quote:
If I try to turn it over w/ the plugs out do I need to also remove the fuel pump fuse?


You won't be cranking it long. Just bumping it should work. Have a rag over the plug holes. You're going to have a mess ..so don't go with the "mo is betah" theory on filling them to begin with.

Quote:
or would I only remove the fuse if I put the plugs back in?


If you don't purge the cylinders before putting them back in, and you added too much, you won't be cranking long at all.

 

[Lethal1ty17]

30 minutes of soaking wont do al that much if the piston rings are really gunked up, it just needs time. if it all runs out of the cylinder and past the rings quickly you'll have to keep adding some to keep the rings wet.