Should criminals be given a second chance?

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Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
CA is the 6th largest economy in the world. We have a huge surplus right now.
We have 10% of the nation's population.
Because of the huge tax base, we subsidize much of the country.

Bankrupt? When Gov Brown started his second 8 year term in 2011, CA had a $27B budget deficit; we now have a budget surplus of nearly $30B.

We are supposed to be the United States of America.
I cannot understand the us versus them mentality.


According to this, CA is in debt...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomas...alifornia-is-unsustainable/#323857813a23
 
Originally Posted by ZZman
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by ZZman
Most illegals and illegal immigrants are hard workers. I dare say far harder workers than most Americans are.

So we should open up the border, and fill up the country with them?


Not saying that at all. But they also aren't all raptists, murders and drug mules. The vast majority are hard workers looking for a better life. I get that. We have been absorbing many of them for years.

For those who just say come here legally many can't. They are unskilled and wouldn't be allowed in. Gor others the wait can be 10 years. When your are suffering and want a better life who wants to wait 10 years? Americans get mad waiting in line for 15 minutes.
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by Kage860
Ok you're right. Some prisoners might be innocent. The only reasonable solution is to close all courts and prisons. No crime should receive punishment to make sure no innocent person is ever killed, or behind bars, or fined, or sued.

You have a surprising number of far left liberals in government today, who would love to do just that. Their bleeding hearts know no bounds. Look at the Kate Steinle killing. They wouldn't deport him. Then, after he killed her, they wouldn't convict him.

They did convict him of being a convicted felon who was in illegal possession of a gun...... If he was a convicted felon, what was he doing in this country in the first place? Questions only a liberal can answer.


Interesting you pull a criminal example out. You do realize immigrants both legal and illegal commit crimes at lower rates than people born here right? Be more concerned with an American than a foreign born persom.


That's not true and I highly doubt you can post anything CREDIBLE to prove it...
 
Originally Posted by grampi
Originally Posted by ZZman
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by ZZman
Most illegals and illegal immigrants are hard workers. I dare say far harder workers than most Americans are.

So we should open up the border, and fill up the country with them?


Not saying that at all. But they also aren't all raptists, murders and drug mules. The vast majority are hard workers looking for a better life. I get that. We have been absorbing many of them for years.

For those who just say come here legally many can't. They are unskilled and wouldn't be allowed in. Gor others the wait can be 10 years. When your are suffering and want a better life who wants to wait 10 years? Americans get mad waiting in line for 15 minutes.
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by Kage860
Ok you're right. Some prisoners might be innocent. The only reasonable solution is to close all courts and prisons. No crime should receive punishment to make sure no innocent person is ever killed, or behind bars, or fined, or sued.

You have a surprising number of far left liberals in government today, who would love to do just that. Their bleeding hearts know no bounds. Look at the Kate Steinle killing. They wouldn't deport him. Then, after he killed her, they wouldn't convict him.

They did convict him of being a convicted felon who was in illegal possession of a gun...... If he was a convicted felon, what was he doing in this country in the first place? Questions only a liberal can answer.


Interesting you pull a criminal example out. You do realize immigrants both legal and illegal commit crimes at lower rates than people born here right? Be more concerned with an American than a foreign born persom.


That's not true and I highly doubt you can post anything CREDIBLE to prove it...


Is your google fu weak?

https://www.cato.org/blog/immigration-crime-what-research-says

But it's a funny point to debate. Regardless of the crime rate, whether it's higher or lower than Americans, if they weren't here, those crimes wouldn't have been committed!

Basically it's like saying they're better because they kill less people. How about nobody being killed?
 
Originally Posted by grampi
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
CA is the 6th largest economy in the world. We have a huge surplus right now.
We have 10% of the nation's population.
Because of the huge tax base, we subsidize much of the country.

Bankrupt? When Gov Brown started his second 8 year term in 2011, CA had a $27B budget deficit; we now have a budget surplus of nearly $30B.

We are supposed to be the United States of America.
I cannot understand the us versus them mentality.


According to this, CA is in debt...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomas...alifornia-is-unsustainable/#323857813a23

There is a difference between deficit/surplus and debt.
The article guesses at the number and does not cite the source.

You wanna talk about debt and deficits, I suggest you look to Washington.
CA is the land of opportunity; it has been very good to me.
 
Originally Posted by PandaBear
I don't know, I've been trying to avoid putting any of these things in and only point to you how WRONG your biases are,......Good job, you just ruined a legit discussion, totally unrelated to your bias.

1.) It is not "bias" that California is going bankrupt. And is doing so at an alarming rate.

2.) It is not "bias" that illegal immigration from south of the border is a large part of the reason why. And takes place virtually unchecked in that state. Their political leaders all but advertise for illegals to come there.

3.) It is not "bias" that a large amount of good paying employment is leaving California for lower taxed regions.

Your problem is typical. You cannot accept fact. So you try to label it something else, so you can attempt to discredit it. California is in serious financial trouble that is compounding itself. You had, (emphasis on the word had), a lot of good paying jobs. These jobs paid well, delivered good benefits and retirement programs, and because of that, drove up housing prices into the Stratosphere in many areas of that state.

Even in the modest middle class areas of L.A. you now have 60 year old, 1,200 sq. ft. chicken wire and stucco frame homes selling for over $500K. Many of those good paying jobs have all left. Leaving the current overpriced real estate market in those areas to stand alone. With nothing employment wise to support their insanely jacked up prices.

For example, the large aircraft industry is gone from California. The Boeing C-17 was the last. Not one company is currently building large aircraft in southern California. Or ever will again. Many of those people were either laid off, or else bought out with early retirement and reduced benefits. Or else they were transferred elsewhere to other states. Either way, they are going to have a tough time remaining in California any longer, even if they so choose.

Good paying, union employment with good benefits was the backbone of much of southern California. Most is either gone, or leaving. The one's that remain are doing so with reduced pay and benefits. And with severely downsized work forces. Silicone Valley is also being adversely effected. Many companies are leaving. And startup companies are going elsewhere, as are many other businesses. All because of California's ridiculous taxes on businesses and most everything else.

https://www.economist.com/leaders/2018/08/30/why-startups-are-leaving-silicon-valley

https://www.economist.com/briefing/...-its-lead-over-other-tech-hubs-narrowing

https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomas...alifornia-is-unsustainable/#4162edcc3a23

https://californiapolicycenter.org/californias-total-state-local-debt-totals-1-3-trillion/

It's only going to be a matter of time before the job market can no longer support the tremendously overpriced real estate market in that state. And then they are going to be in serious trouble, because their tax base is going to shrink even further as those prices tank. And foreclosures mount up, and prices plummet. Just like what happened nationwide in 2008 - 2009. This isn't much different than the whole dot com fiasco that crashed in 2000. Not to mention the entire state is regulating and legislating itself out of existence. Most companies could never afford to move there if they wanted to.

In the meantime while this financial train wreck is setting itself up to play out, they have opened the floodgates with their illegal immigration. All of which is already costing California billions of dollars they don't have..... And have no way of getting. So their liberal political leaders continue to do everything humanly possible to spend that state into bankruptcy. While all the while their tax base is shrinking, along with their ability to pay for all of their social welfare to illegals, that is helping to drive California into bankruptcy.

This is pushing even more people out of California. They even have a name for it. It is called "White Flight". And it's getting to be more and more of a problem for that state every week. Because these people are taking their money with them when they depart. Leaving illegal invaders in their place. Just how well do you think that will work out in the long term?

Now, do yourself a favor and smarten up a bit, and stop calling any or all of that, "bias". Because if you can read and click a mouse, you will quickly learn it is all pure FACT. And to call it anything else is nothing but petty whining.
 
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