Series batteries

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Jul 19, 2020
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Hi all, so I am working on a project. The project is adding a large hydraulic pump to a truck. It’s a 36v pump. My truck has one battery under the hood. My thoughts were to put two battery mounts on the frame behind the cab and then hook all three batteries in series to make 36v. To satisfy the electrical system of the truck I would I hook up the battery under the hood as normal with the truck side connections. I hope that makes sense as to what I’m trying to explain that I plan to do. But I want to know if my logic is correct or of any issues this may pose. Note that the truck is an old carbureted dually so the electrical system on the truck is fairly simple. And I would plan to put a higher amp alternator on the truck and it be hooked to the battery under the hood as well. Do you think this will work or am I totally off base here? Thank you!
 
I don't think your plan is practical for several reasons... I think what you actually are needing is a DC-to-DC converter. This is commonly referred to as a Buck-boost converter. Its quite similar to an inverter you hook up to 12v to power 120V AC electronics, but instead it's output is DC current stepped up or down to a different voltage.

How much amperage is your hydraulic pump going to pull? Here is an example, but I suspect you're going to need something able to handle more current. https://www.amazon.com/Waterproof-10-20V-Supply-Regulated-Converter/dp/B00M2S287G
 
I don't think your plan is practical for several reasons... I think what you actually are needing is a DC-to-DC converter. This is commonly referred to as a Buck-boost converter. Its quite similar to an inverter you hook up to 12v to power 120V AC electronics, but instead it's output is DC current stepped up or down to a different voltage.

How much amperage is your hydraulic pump going to pull? Here is an example, but I suspect you're going to need something able to handle more current. https://www.amazon.com/Waterproof-10-20V-Supply-Regulated-Converter/dp/B00M2S287G

well to be honest I do not know what the pumps current draw will be. I just know it’s 36v which generally is achieved by three 12v batteries in series. So assuming that was the intention then the current draw at max would be about 150-175A since that’s the draw of a 12v pump and the 36v pump is obviously of much higher capacity pressure and flow wise.
 
Yikes! Hold on. I looked the amperage that a DC powered hydraulic pump draws and a buck-boost converter able to handle that would be impractically expensive and large.
 
The first things to find out are what is the peak amount of current that running the 36 Volt item will draw,

then how long will that be drawn, such as only a couple of minutes, and then not used for hours,

or repeated use for a long time.

If it is only brief use but the current is high than batteries may be the first part of the solution, but you will need a means to keep them charged. A DC to DC converter would be a good start, but some kind of regulator designed to charge the additional 2 would be the best answer.

Any good electronic engineer, or electronic technician who designs, should be able to help you finalize what is needed for this application. To a good electronic engineer, designing something like that is like an English major doing a cross word puzzle. It is more fun than work. Now days, sourcing parts might be a little harder if any chips are involved and 1/10 inch spaced pin packs would make it easier to make a one-of. Now days 1/10 inch packs are harder to find.
 
The first things to find out are what is the peak amount of current that running the 36 Volt item will draw,

then how long will that be drawn, such as only a couple of minutes, and then not used for hours,

or repeated use for a long time.

If it is only brief use but the current is high than batteries may be the first part of the solution, but you will need a means to keep them charged. A DC to DC converter would be a good start, but some kind of regulator designed to charge the additional 2 would be the best answer.

Any good electronic engineer, or electronic technician who designs, should be able to help you finalize what is needed for this application. To a good electronic engineer, designing something like that is like an English major doing a cross word puzzle. It is more fun than work. Now days, sourcing parts might be a little harder if any chips are involved and 1/10 inch spaced pin packs would make it easier to make a one-of. Now days 1/10 inch packs are harder to find.

Well it’s for a telescoping hydraulic cylinder for a dump bed and honestly the pump is overkill probably but I already had it and would like to put it to use. The idea is to have a ~250A+ alternator which would charge the main battery in the truck quickly and obviously would be revved up during dumping. It’s a gravity down setup so no use on the downward part. Then running to load up again if more than one load is required so drive time and load time to charge up again. Would the alternator being hooked to the original battery in turn charge the others simultaneously and equally or would it only charge the one battery? And once again I’m estimating that the max current draw will be 175A beings that’s what my 12v pumps can draw and that’s also the breaker that came attached to my pump.
 
250+ amp alternators require serpentine belts.
Even dual V belts are not going to cut it.

And a battery at 80% charged with a 200 amp alternator is not going to reach 100% any faster than a 40 amp alternator. In fact if the 40 amp alternator was told by its voltage regulator to seek 14.4v and the 200 amp alternator was only allowed to seek 13.8v, the 40 amp alternator would fully charge it faster.

YOu might be best off with 3 12v batteries in series, not connected to the 12v system of you old ford, and getting a 36 v charger to plug in that night. or separate the 3 12v batteries and charge them in parallel at night, or separately with a 12v charger, or 3 12v chargers.

The 12v pump drawing 175 amps max, its 36v brother, likely draws ~1/3 that amperage.

DC to DC boosters are not really designed to handle such a dynamic load. I once tried to power 24v hedge clippers through a 1800 watt dc to dc converter, from a 12v battery. It worked until I hit a thicker branch and it bogged, then it cut through and went dead. I had a 60 volt rated wattmeter inline to measure the load. It got smoked with a voltage surge well over 60 volts, despite being set unloaded at 24.2 volts.

The hedge clippers powered by a 24v battery( actually 25,2v), max out at 6.2 amps when locked against a branch they cannot cut. the 1800 watt dc to dc converter blew trying to support a dynamic load of only 150 watts, max.
Unloaded the clippers draw about 1.7 amps for 42 watts

Perhaps get a 36v alternator dedicated to the electrically separate 3 batteries in series powering the hydraulic pump, if you want the truck to charge them.
 
To charge all the batteries off of a 12v alternator you would have to come up with a system of relays to disconnect the series wiring and wire them in parallel. Not impossible, but possibly impractical.
 
Hmm... my brother had a dump bed on his F-250 that was strong enough to tip out a yard of gravel. I know for a fact that he didn't have extra batteries and only had a 60 amp alternator. I'm assuming it was a 12v pump. I bet you don't need a massive alternator.

Here's a thought... a 1U garden tractor battery is typically rated at over 250 cold cranking amps. Three of those in series would have probably have plenty of power and reserve capacity for your requirements and wouldn't be too expensive or heavy. You would also need a 12v to 36v step up charge controller and I bet you would not need a different alternator as I doubt it would take too much power to keep them charged up. The charge controller would probably be the most expensive bit of kit for this project.
 
Okay thank you for all of the replies. Looks like I have some rethinking to do. Luckily I haven’t purchased any batteries or anything yet so I’m still in the design phase. I figured the 36v pump would be a great thing but it’s looking to be a bit impractical unfortunately.
 
To charge all the batteries off of a 12v alternator you would have to come up with a system of relays to disconnect the series wiring and wire them in parallel. Not impossible, but possibly impractical.

This. The way you are proposing to connect the batteries would work, but only the primary battery under the hood will be charged. The other two have no means to charge them without doing something like this.
 
You’d be MUCH better off re-regulating the alternator to 36V and using a trio of batteries for the pump, and then using a 36-12V converter to keep a starter battery charged. Even that is a kludge and you need a guy with skills to do that.

So.... I would DITCH the 36v pump and just bed mount a gas powered pump, 36v at those amps is not really set up for a good electrical solution.

m
 
YOu might be best off with 3 12v batteries in series, not connected to the 12v system of you old ford, and getting a 36 v charger to plug in that night. or separate the 3 12v batteries and charge them in parallel at night, or separately with a 12v charger, or 3 12v chargers.

That's what I was thinking.

High rate 12v chargers, and higher voltage chargers exist. In this scenario, Id essentially get a reasonable size 12V inverter, wired directly to the battery, and then use a dedicated charger. The battery could also be set up with contactors to put it in 36V only when loading the pump (allowing use of a 12v charger or even the vehicle's alternator, though Im not a fan), or a 36V charger could be used, thats a cost issue... I think the latter might be a better option, less to buy and go wrong. When the vehicle is at home, this 36V charger can be connected to mains power to allow the very long time it truly takes to charge big batteries to full.

OP needs to look at constant power at reasonable rates. May drive to some fairly large batteries to get constant power.

And be VERY considerate of protection!!!!
 
I think the Op has axed the idea of employing the 36v pump.

There are 36vDC power supplies, with adjustable voltage output. Not sure of their range, if they go as high as 44v for proper 12v lead acid battery charging.

Op could get 3 batteries in series to power the pump, and use a 12vdc inverter to power the 36v power supply to charge the batteries from alternator, then that night unplug from inverter and plug into the grid to top off the batteries.

I'm slanted towards power supplies as they can hold voltage high enough for long enough, whereas most smart chargers do not really care about reaching a true 100% state of charge, but deeply cycled batteries Do care, and will live much longer and perform better when they reach this ideal often

If using 3 smaller AGM batteries in series, with an adjustablevoltage power supply set to 44v, and an ammeter, one can see how long it takes for amperage to taper to 0.5% of the battery's capacity( 20 hr rate), then later on use a spring wound timer to seek and hold that voltage for a certain period of time, if the usage/depletion level is similar. As the batteries accumulate cycles, that time will have to be extended.

I've been using a Meanwell power supply rated at 500 watts since october 2014. It can output 40 amps(~600 watts) at any voltage from 13.12 to 19.23. Its specs state a lesser voltage range and lesser output wattage, but my tools are not lying about its range. it is also power factor corrected, meaning more efficient than a NON pfc power supply would be.

Meanwell has many many different power supplies available, but what is most important when using them as battery chargers is that they say 'constant current limiting on overload' in the spec sheet

Mine is the RSP series, specifically the rsp-500-15. and was 112$ delivered in 2014.

there is a rsp-320-36 320 watts and 36v.


It says its range is only as high as 39.6v, which would only be adequate for 3 agms in series at float voltage. The actual upper voltaeg range is likely higher but one would have to buy one to know how much higher.

The rsp-320-48 stated voltage range is 41 to 56v.
Three 50% depleted AGMS in series should be brought to 43.2 to 44.1v for no less than 5.5 hours.

The rsp-320-48 is 51$ on mouser. it can likely output 400 watts.

If someone told me to make the 36v pump work, I'd likely get 3 UB12350 (35amp hour) agm batteries wired in series, and use the rsp-320-48 set to 44.1v, to charge them that night. If they did not have enough capacity to make it through the day I'd add a pure sine wave inverter to the truck's 12v battery and power the power supply through it to charge the 36v bank while the engine is running, and that night, unplug meanwell from inverter and plug it into the grid. I'd hold the 35 AH agms at 44.1v until amperage tapered to 0.17 amps, then disconnect batteries from charging source.

There is an RSP-500-48 version too, for 121$. This 500 watt version, would be better if larger batteries are required and more recharging is required while the engine is running but it would also require a larger inverter.

Not sure these really require a pure sine wave inverter though, they might work fine on cheaper Modified square wave inverters. I've never tried to power mine from an inverter and will not try unless there is a madmax type of scenario. I'd not fear powering it from a capable quality PSW inverter but only reluctantly do so from a MSW inverter, unless MEanWell outright said that MSW is fine.
 
36 volts is what golf carts use, and they have a charging infrastructure in place. You should be able to get 3x 12V deep cycle batteries vs the more common 6x 6V.

Dump beds used to run off PTOs, for good reason. Same with snow plows.
 
I have seen relays setup for 24 volts (two batteries) to power something, and be charged by the 12 volt alternator when the truck was running. I would think you could set up 3 batteries by this method.I do not know how, but I bet someone here could figure it out.
 
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