Salvage history, but clean title?

[bohm]

On Saturday, I went to a car lot and purchased a $3K used car. This was my first time purchasing from a used car lot and I foolishly let myself get pressured into buying the vehicle on the spot without running a history report or getting a professional inspection.

After completing the paperwork, the salesman informed me he didn't have the title in hand, and that he was waiting to receive it from the auction where he got the car. He said he would let me know when the title arrived, but also gave me a form that I could take to the DMV to apply for a new title.

Subsequently, I ran a VIN check from NICB, which returned a "total loss" salvage record. I then purchased an NVMTIS report which shows an accident resulting in an "insurance loss." Since this apparent salvage history wasn't disclosed before the purchase, I called the car lot to express my concern. They insisted that an "insurance loss" is not the same as the vehicle being totaled/salvage, and that the title (which I still haven't seen) is 'clean'. He said he would contact the auction and hung up. That was yesterday morning and I haven't heard anything back.

I'm hesitant to apply for a new title with the provided form, since I assume the DMV will run a check, see the same "total loss" record, and possibly issue me a branded title.

Not sure how best to proceed with this, and would appreciate any thoughts/suggestions. Thanks.

 

[Owen Lucas]

Some states have a buyers remorse period where you can return the vehicle no questions asked.

Insurance companies dispose of vehicles at auctions for many reasons, the most being total losses including flood damage, theft recovery, or a body shop repair buy back, possibly a few other weird scenarios in there.

Sounds like this car is fresh off the yard so most likely has not been repaired so quickly.

Run the vin through the website below, you might get pictures of the vehicle at the auction:

https://bid.cars/en/bidfax

 

[Dave9]

Subsequently, I ran a VIN check from NICB, which returned a "total loss" salvage record.

If the vehicle has a salvage title, not even rebuilt (even if it was just something like hail damage, still need an inspection to issue a rebuilt/fitness title), seek a refund or price adjustment. Very dodgy to hide this from customers, I'd see if there are any google reviews of this car lot, and as Owen Lucas suggested, see if you can determine the type of damage it had through pictures.

A clean title would be suspicious on an insurance totaled vehicle. See the bottom of this article, title washing section. I'm not suggesting this must have happened, in some cases a vehicle can be an insurance loss for cosmetic reasons and not get the title branded as salvage.

What Is a Clean Title? - NerdWallet

A clean title tells you a vehicle has never been declared a total loss.

www.nerdwallet.com

 

[zvm77us]

What state are you in and age of the car?

 

[atikovi]

Probably all states require dealers to disclose salvage history on a car they are selling. If you want to get out of it and they are hesitating, maybe mention that you will be contacting the DMV dealer licensing section for more guidance. The last thing some dealers want is the possibility of an investigation of their business. But for $3,000 if it runs and looks good, you probably got a good deal these days and just might want to drive it.

 

[joekingcorvette]

In my state a salvage title is issued and the car doesn't need inspection or anything. It states in real small letters toward the top of the title SALVAGE. Throw the title in the drawer and drive and enjoy the vehicle.

 

[Dave9]

In my state a salvage title is issued and the car doesn't need inspection or anything. It states in real small letters toward the top of the title SALVAGE. Throw the title in the drawer and drive and enjoy the vehicle.

You don't have any trouble getting insurance for it? In many states, insurance companies want at least rebranded... or to inspect it themselves.

 

[joekingcorvette]

You don't have any trouble getting insurance for it? In many states, insurance companies want at least rebranded.

No. The title has to be in your name but any insurance company will cover it. If it gets totalled you still get decent money. It happened to me once with a 67 Plymouth Barracuda with a new 340 engine I had installed. I got hit by another vehicle and rolled the car and it was totalled out. Their insurance even paid the extra money for the new engine which way back then was $400 over the reasonable book price. The Ford F150 is the only salvage vehicle I own.

 

[JTK]

It depends on the state you live in. In the People's Republic of NY, it will state right on the vehicle's title "Rebuilt/Salvage NY".

In NY, there's an inspection process that must be followed in order to title a rebuilt/salvage vehicle. If the vehicle can't get through that process, it can't be titled.

My 2016 Malibu has a rebuilt / salvage title. It had enough front end damage for the previous owner's insurance co to total it. The guy I bought it from, bought it from COPART, slapped some used parts on it, went through the process to get it titled and then sold the vehicle to me.

If there's any question, have your insurance agent run the VIN#. If the title isn't cleared, they'll see this. If it's all clear, it's no more difficult to insure (nor more expensive) than a normal vehicle.

 

[atikovi]

One thing I learned is that State Farm wont insure rebuilt cars. Killed the deal on a car I was selling.

 

[eljefino]

In my state a salvage title requires an inspection to turn into a rebuilt one. Dealers have to provide a negotiable title, one which you can get a registration with, but it can be "dirty" and I'm not aware of a duty to volunteer this info. However a prospective customer has the right to demand to see the title before buying, which can be interesting with dealers "floor plan" financing their stock.

There are a lot of dealer customers financing or just trusting the system that the title will find them once they pay off the car. If OP didn't buy the $3k car someone else right behind him would have.

 

[bohm]

Thanks for all the excellent responses, guys. Much appreciated!

I did hear from the car lot this evening, and they're supposed to have the title by tomorrow - so it'll be interesting to see what it actually says.

I should have mentioned before that the reported "insurance loss" event occurred 7 years and 40K miles ago, so it's been registered and driven quite a bit since. I couldn't find the vehicle on the BidCars website, so I'm not sure why it went to auction.

But for $3,000 if it runs and looks good, you probably got a good deal these days and just might want to drive it.

Throw the title in the drawer and drive and enjoy the vehicle.

Yeah, this is how I'm leaning at the moment. It runs well and looks decent, and I pretty much just bought it as a 'beater' work car anyway.

If there's any question, have your insurance agent run the VIN#. If the title isn't cleared, they'll see this. If it's all clear, it's no more difficult to insure (nor more expensive) than a normal vehicle.

FWIW, I was able to add the vehicle to my insurance via the GEICO app without a hitch, so I suppose they probably did an automatic title check at that time.

If OP didn't buy the $3k car someone else right behind him would have.

This is so true. In my small town, fully-functional cars at this price point usually sell within hours of being listed.

 

[dogememe]

I'm super curious what kind of car you found at a car dealership (even a used car lot), in the US, for $3,000?

That said, I am under the impression that the dealer must tell you if the car is anything but a clean title. Every car I've ever bought at a dealer has had paperwork listing that the vehicle has a clean title and has not been salved, rebuilt, flooded, etc. Here is a screenshot from my most recent car purchase paperwork. If you were presented a similar paper and when you receive the title it's salvage or anything I would say you have good leverage to get a refund on the car or contact whatever department in whatever state handles dealer licenses and see what you can do.

 

[GON]

Let's clarify a few things. A salvage title and a rebuilt title are completely different things.

A salvage title means the vehicle was a total loss as described by the state. A total loss typically means the damage crossed a percentage of value threshold; a total loss does not mean a 100 percent damage loss.

Almost no states (except South Dakota) will allow the registration of a salvage title, Typically, the state often won't retitle a salvage title to a salvage title.

I strongly speculate the vehicle you purchased has a clear title, or a rebuilt title. I doubt it has a salvage title.

For $3,000 USD, and you inspected and approved of the car, I am not sure what the risk to you is if the title is rebuilt or clear. There are millions of vehicles on the road in the US this very minute that have a clear title that in fact likely had an accident and/ or issue that should have made the vehicle a salvage candidate. In the same sentence, there is a small percentage of vehicles with rebuilt titles that should never have been determined to be a salvage vehicle/ total loss.

 

[ls973800]

Some states have a buyers remorse period where you can return the vehicle no questions asked.

Insurance companies dispose of vehicles at auctions for many reasons, the most being total losses including flood damage, theft recovery, or a body shop repair buy back, possibly a few other weird scenarios in there.

Sounds like this car is fresh off the yard so most likely has not been repaired so quickly.

Run the vin through the website below, you might get pictures of the vehicle at the auction:

https://bid.cars/en/bidfax

When trying to find states with a "remorse" or "cooling" off period after purchase of a vehicle, I found this. If you can provide what states do have such a period please post them. This is not to be confused with lemon laws but just talking about remorse or cooling off.

Saw a comment today where someone was trying to tell an OP there is a 60 day?!?!!! return policy, among the many other comments saying "see what your states cooling off period is." There isn't one. There never has been. There never will be.

In California, you can buy a right to return policy. For money. Thats it. In every single other state, and California if you do not purchase this policy, the car is yours when you drive off. Some states, the car is yours as soon as you sign the contract.

Some dealers offer a return policy. This is solely at the dealers discretion. There is no universal policy. If a dealer does not have a return policy, you are at the mercy of the dealership. No amount of lawyers or made up reddit laws are going to help you.

 

[atikovi]

When trying to find states with a "remorse" or "cooling" off period after purchase of a vehicle, I found this. If you can provide what states do have such a period please post them.

No such thing. He has that confused with door to door sales laws. Has nothing to do with car sales.

 

[JTK]

Let's clarify a few things. A salvage title and a rebuilt title are completely different th

I believe the wording is a bit different depending on the state. Like I say, my title is stamped "Rebuilt/Salvage". Per NY DMV:

"What type of vehicle needs a Salvage Examination?​

A salvage vehicle that is recovered after a theft or rebuilt after the damage must be examined by the DMV before the DMV can issue a new title.

If the proof of ownership for a salvage vehicle is a NY State Salvage Certificate (MV-907A), the DMV will not issue a title certificate without a salvage vehicle examination.

The DMV will not examine or issue a title certificate for a rebuilt vehicle that has an out-of-state title certificate or a Salvage Certificate (MV-907A) that is labeled

• 'parts only'
• 'non-rebuildable'
• 'non-repairable'
• 'scrapped'
• 'destroyed'

These types of vehicles are deemed not roadworthy."

 

[GON]

I believe the wording is a bit different depending on the state. Like I say, my title is stamped "Rebuilt/Salvage". Per NY DMV:

"What type of vehicle needs a Salvage Examination?​

A salvage vehicle that is recovered after a theft or rebuilt after the damage must be examined by the DMV before the DMV can issue a new title.

If the proof of ownership for a salvage vehicle is a NY State Salvage Certificate (MV-907A), the DMV will not issue a title certificate without a salvage vehicle examination.

The DMV will not examine or issue a title certificate for a rebuilt vehicle that has an out-of-state title certificate or a Salvage Certificate (MV-907A) that is labeled

• 'parts only'
• 'non-rebuildable'
• 'non-repairable'
• 'scrapped'
• 'destroyed'

These types of vehicles are deemed not roadworthy."

I am guessing NY State does not offer a salvage title, but a salvage certificate? Another guess is NY State keeps the word salvage on the rebuilt title as a "consumer protection", but a nationwide DMV search of your title, which is done when any motor vehicle title is transfected from one state to another, your vehicle title would only show as rebuilt.

If you were to move from NY to OR, and transfer your title, your new OR title would only say "rebuilt" title, no word on salvage would be printed on the hard copy title.

 

[JTK]

.... Another guess is NY State keeps the word salvage on the rebuilt title as a "consumer protection", but a nationwide DMV search of your title, which is done when any motor vehicle title is transfected from one state to another, your vehicle title would only show as rebuilt...

That's exactly it. Once you go though the "Salvage certificate" process mentioned above which is basically pay a ~$200 fee to the NYS DMV and schedule an appt to have them inspect the vehicle, the title is forever branded rebuilt/salvage. Part of the inspection process requires proof of all the receipts for the parts required to repair the vehicle.

 

[atikovi]

Part of the inspection process requires proof of all the receipts for the parts required to repair the vehicle.

What if you bought it already repaired so have no receipts for the parts the previous owner used? Around here they never ask for that.