S65 M3 engine

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Quote
Rod bearings shouldn't be a maintenance item.
My suggestion for fixing the BMW M-engine rod bearing problem is to replace them with GM LS engine bearings, and to include the rest of the engine while you are doing it.

Engine from company that bankrupt because it was making good quality products?


GM went bankrupt because of retiree health care costs, not warranty costs.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by A_Harman
Originally Posted by edyvw
Quote
Rod bearings shouldn't be a maintenance item.
My suggestion for fixing the BMW M-engine rod bearing problem is to replace them with GM LS engine bearings, and to include the rest of the engine while you are doing it.

Engine from company that bankrupt because it was making good quality products?


GM went bankrupt because of retiree health care costs, not warranty costs.



LOL, really?
BMW is still in business so I guess no warranty costs. You see, unlike GM, BMW has tendency to stay assembled together throughout lifespan of a vehicle.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by oghl
[/quote]
Engine from company that bankrupt because it was making good quality products?


They are doing poorly for other reasons. I believe the LS V8 is a time tested design. Not one of the most advanced, but one of the most proven. [/quote]
Time tested? Sure, I guess BMW could also find something several decades old on the shelf.

 

[oghl]

[/quote]
Time tested? Sure, I guess BMW could also find something several decades old on the shelf. [/quote]

Engine considerations only : I would take a modern day LS V8 over a modern day bmw V8.

 

[d00df00d]

Guys, the LS is beyond reproach. Yes, GM has made a ton of mistakes, uninspiring engines and systematically crappy vehicle lineups among them. But the LS isn't one of those mistakes. It's low, light, powerful as heck, unbelievably versatile, and rock solid.

It's also a prime example of what you have to sacrifice for reliability. Weak top end, uninspiring redline, torque curve like an economy car V6, mediocre-at-best throttle response. It's one of the main reasons why the Corvette has always been such a blunt instrument. It pulls the numbers all day, but it's a handful to drive and feels unbelievably clumsy next to its "overpriced" German competitors. The LS is much better suited to trucks and big sedans, where you don't expect so much finesse. No surprise it fares so much better vs. its competitors in those applications than it does in the Corvette.

The S65, on the other hand, would be right at home in one of those high-dollar sports cars that make the Corvette seem so primitive. You gotta pay to play.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by d00df00d
Guys, the LS is beyond reproach. Yes, GM has made a ton of mistakes, uninspiring engines and systematically crappy vehicle lineups among them. But the LS isn't one of those mistakes. It's low, light, powerful as heck, unbelievably versatile, and rock solid.

It's also a prime example of what you have to sacrifice for reliability. Weak top end, uninspiring redline, torque curve like an economy car V6, mediocre-at-best throttle response. It's one of the main reasons why the Corvette has always been such a blunt instrument. It pulls the numbers all day, but it's a handful to drive and feels unbelievably clumsy next to its "overpriced" German competitors. The LS is much better suited to trucks and big sedans, where you don't expect so much finesse. No surprise it fares so much better vs. its competitors in those applications than it does in the Corvette.

The S65, on the other hand, would be right at home in one of those high-dollar sports cars that make the Corvette seem so primitive. You gotta pay to play.

I am not sure most of these people every came three feet close to BMW, not to mention drive one.
That is like when people compare S4 or RS4 to BMW's. Yes, handling for idiots, they pull numbers, they are really fast 0-60 until you experience "Audisteer" and you than figure out why Audi is not BMW.
Corvette? When I hear that clumsy auto transmission shifting it tells me everything about "sport."

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Corvette? When I hear that clumsy auto transmission shifting it tells me everything about "sport."

Oh man -- I drove an automatic C7 convertible recently. Felt like a last-generation chassis with a 30 year-old powertrain. Throttle response like a truck, utterly incompetent transmission for anything other than puttering around. Less exciting than the same-year automatic 911 cabrio I drove, despite having significantly more power and no turbos to spool. Comparing it to the Porsche was like comparing a Fisher Price tool set to the real thing.

Might be worth noting that car was a whole generation newer than the LS engines that were contemporary to the S65...

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by d00df00d
Guys, the LS is beyond reproach. Yes, GM has made a ton of mistakes, uninspiring engines and systematically crappy vehicle lineups among them. But the LS isn't one of those mistakes. It's low, light, powerful as heck, unbelievably versatile, and rock solid.

It's also a prime example of what you have to sacrifice for reliability. Weak top end, uninspiring redline, torque curve like an economy car V6, mediocre-at-best throttle response. It's one of the main reasons why the Corvette has always been such a blunt instrument. It pulls the numbers all day, but it's a handful to drive and feels unbelievably clumsy next to its "overpriced" German competitors. The LS is much better suited to trucks and big sedans, where you don't expect so much finesse. No surprise it fares so much better vs. its competitors in those applications than it does in the Corvette.

The S65, on the other hand, would be right at home in one of those high-dollar sports cars that make the Corvette seem so primitive. You gotta pay to play.

I am not sure most of these people every came three feet close to BMW, not to mention drive one.
That is like when people compare S4 or RS4 to BMW's. Yes, handling for idiots, they pull numbers, they are really fast 0-60 until you experience "Audisteer" and you than figure out why Audi is not BMW.
Corvette? When I hear that clumsy auto transmission shifting it tells me everything about "sport."


Nobody at Audi Sport is trying to match M cars. The philosophy is totally different. RS cars are right up there with the best and most capable everyday, all weather cars in the world.

And they don't typically need rod bearings as general maintenance.

 

[d00df00d]

Maybe not, but.... I don't think maintenance is an area where Audis generally compare well vs. BMWs.

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Nobody at Audi Sport is trying to match M cars. The philosophy is totally different. RS cars are right up there with the best and most capable everyday, all weather cars in the world.

And they don't typically need rod bearings as general maintenance.

Everyone has issues, and the higher-strung the car, the greater risk for issues.

Remember the S4 timing chains? Rod bearings in ///M engines, Z06s overheating, everything about the F355, the Porsche IMS, 18+ Mustangs getting new engines left and right.

[censored], someone just posted an action from Hyundai/KIA about rod bearings. Haven't Hyundai been replacing engines for the last few years as well?

Let's stop acting like any manufacturer is perfect. All designs have idiosyncrasies.

 

[oghl]

Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Nobody at Audi Sport is trying to match M cars. The philosophy is totally different. RS cars are right up there with the best and most capable everyday, all weather cars in the world.

And they don't typically need rod bearings as general maintenance.

Everyone has issues, and the higher-strung the car, the greater risk for issues.

Remember the S4 timing chains? Rod bearings in ///M engines, Z06s overheating


The regular corvette overheats too if you drive it like a sports car in the back canyons, second gear mid to high rpm runs will do it.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted by oghl
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Nobody at Audi Sport is trying to match M cars. The philosophy is totally different. RS cars are right up there with the best and most capable everyday, all weather cars in the world.

And they don't typically need rod bearings as general maintenance.

Everyone has issues, and the higher-strung the car, the greater risk for issues.

Remember the S4 timing chains? Rod bearings in ///M engines, Z06s overheating


The regular corvette overheats too if you drive it like a sports car in the back canyons, second gear mid to high rpm runs will do it.

Guess the Corvette needs an S65 swap.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by d00df00d
Guys, the LS is beyond reproach. Yes, GM has made a ton of mistakes, uninspiring engines and systematically crappy vehicle lineups among them. But the LS isn't one of those mistakes. It's low, light, powerful as heck, unbelievably versatile, and rock solid.

It's also a prime example of what you have to sacrifice for reliability. Weak top end, uninspiring redline, torque curve like an economy car V6, mediocre-at-best throttle response. It's one of the main reasons why the Corvette has always been such a blunt instrument. It pulls the numbers all day, but it's a handful to drive and feels unbelievably clumsy next to its "overpriced" German competitors. The LS is much better suited to trucks and big sedans, where you don't expect so much finesse. No surprise it fares so much better vs. its competitors in those applications than it does in the Corvette.

The S65, on the other hand, would be right at home in one of those high-dollar sports cars that make the Corvette seem so primitive. You gotta pay to play.

I am not sure most of these people every came three feet close to BMW, not to mention drive one.
That is like when people compare S4 or RS4 to BMW's. Yes, handling for idiots, they pull numbers, they are really fast 0-60 until you experience "Audisteer" and you than figure out why Audi is not BMW.
Corvette? When I hear that clumsy auto transmission shifting it tells me everything about "sport."


Nobody at Audi Sport is trying to match M cars. The philosophy is totally different. RS cars are right up there with the best and most capable everyday, all weather cars in the world.

And they don't typically need rod bearings as general maintenance.

They can't. Extremely heavy front (really good in snow) compared to M or any BMW vs. comparable Audi means much more enjoyable drive in mountains in BMW.
Now while rod bearings might not plague S and RS, those cars are synonym for "fuel dilution monster," and who can forget those famous chain tensioners that are such a joy to replace on V8. Of course let's not forget wheel bearings, PCV's, rear main seals, and of course in S4 having as regular maintenance piston rings.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted by d00df00d
Guys, the LS is beyond reproach. Yes, GM has made a ton of mistakes, uninspiring engines and systematically crappy vehicle lineups among them. But the LS isn't one of those mistakes. It's low, light, powerful as heck, unbelievably versatile, and rock solid.

It's also a prime example of what you have to sacrifice for reliability. Weak top end, uninspiring redline, torque curve like an economy car V6, mediocre-at-best throttle response. It's one of the main reasons why the Corvette has always been such a blunt instrument. It pulls the numbers all day, but it's a handful to drive and feels unbelievably clumsy next to its "overpriced" German competitors. The LS is much better suited to trucks and big sedans, where you don't expect so much finesse. No surprise it fares so much better vs. its competitors in those applications than it does in the Corvette.

The S65, on the other hand, would be right at home in one of those high-dollar sports cars that make the Corvette seem so primitive. You gotta pay to play.


Show me a BMW that does a better lap time than the C7 Corvette in the Car and Driver Lightning Lap competitions.
An engine doesn't need to rev to 8000 rpm to be good. Even current BMW twin-turbo V8's don't go to 8000 rpm.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted by A_Harman
Originally Posted by d00df00d
Guys, the LS is beyond reproach. Yes, GM has made a ton of mistakes, uninspiring engines and systematically crappy vehicle lineups among them. But the LS isn't one of those mistakes. It's low, light, powerful as heck, unbelievably versatile, and rock solid.

It's also a prime example of what you have to sacrifice for reliability. Weak top end, uninspiring redline, torque curve like an economy car V6, mediocre-at-best throttle response. It's one of the main reasons why the Corvette has always been such a blunt instrument. It pulls the numbers all day, but it's a handful to drive and feels unbelievably clumsy next to its "overpriced" German competitors. The LS is much better suited to trucks and big sedans, where you don't expect so much finesse. No surprise it fares so much better vs. its competitors in those applications than it does in the Corvette.

The S65, on the other hand, would be right at home in one of those high-dollar sports cars that make the Corvette seem so primitive. You gotta pay to play.


Show me a BMW that does a better lap time than the C7 Corvette in the Car and Driver Lightning Lap competitions.
An engine doesn't need to rev to 8000 rpm to be good. Even current BMW twin-turbo V8's don't go to 8000 rpm.




At least doodfood has been to a track. Some of our critics can't seem to do anything but quote ragazine articles.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted by SteveSRT8

At least doodfood has been to a track. Some of our critics can't seem to do anything but quote ragazine articles.


I call those self-proclaimed "experts" Read Testers.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by A_Harman
Originally Posted by d00df00d
Guys, the LS is beyond reproach. Yes, GM has made a ton of mistakes, uninspiring engines and systematically crappy vehicle lineups among them. But the LS isn't one of those mistakes. It's low, light, powerful as heck, unbelievably versatile, and rock solid.

It's also a prime example of what you have to sacrifice for reliability. Weak top end, uninspiring redline, torque curve like an economy car V6, mediocre-at-best throttle response. It's one of the main reasons why the Corvette has always been such a blunt instrument. It pulls the numbers all day, but it's a handful to drive and feels unbelievably clumsy next to its "overpriced" German competitors. The LS is much better suited to trucks and big sedans, where you don't expect so much finesse. No surprise it fares so much better vs. its competitors in those applications than it does in the Corvette.

The S65, on the other hand, would be right at home in one of those high-dollar sports cars that make the Corvette seem so primitive. You gotta pay to play.


Show me a BMW that does a better lap time than the C7 Corvette in the Car and Driver Lightning Lap competitions.
An engine doesn't need to rev to 8000 rpm to be good. Even current BMW twin-turbo V8's don't go to 8000 rpm.

No, engine does not need 8,000 rpm, unless you want to make one. BMW is perfectly capable of making huge engines with big displacement and lot of power (McLaren F1 for example). That is not the point.
Also, there is no "even" in current TT BMW engines. I highly doubt BMW with TT engine would cost this much if it was capable of reaching 8,000rpm. It would be out of reach of pretty much everyone.
I cannot remember though any GM product that has four doors, has car seat latches, ski bag in the middle of the rear seat, and doing those lap times like M3.

 

[4WD]

Originally Posted by MCompact
Originally Posted by SteveSRT8

At least doodfood has been to a track. Some of our critics can't seem to do anything but quote ragazine articles.


I call those self-proclaimed "experts" Read Testers.


Yeah ... I had a gander at a kick them while they are down article about some of the cars that will no longer be produced and why they are happy ... adios ... this car handled amazing ... it was quick ... nice car ... good MPG ... but tore into it over the info system (well at least we are past counting cup holders) ...

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted by A_Harman
Originally Posted by d00df00d
Guys, the LS is beyond reproach. Yes, GM has made a ton of mistakes, uninspiring engines and systematically crappy vehicle lineups among them. But the LS isn't one of those mistakes. It's low, light, powerful as heck, unbelievably versatile, and rock solid.

It's also a prime example of what you have to sacrifice for reliability. Weak top end, uninspiring redline, torque curve like an economy car V6, mediocre-at-best throttle response. It's one of the main reasons why the Corvette has always been such a blunt instrument. It pulls the numbers all day, but it's a handful to drive and feels unbelievably clumsy next to its "overpriced" German competitors. The LS is much better suited to trucks and big sedans, where you don't expect so much finesse. No surprise it fares so much better vs. its competitors in those applications than it does in the Corvette.

The S65, on the other hand, would be right at home in one of those high-dollar sports cars that make the Corvette seem so primitive. You gotta pay to play.


Show me a BMW that does a better lap time than the C7 Corvette in the Car and Driver Lightning Lap competitions.
An engine doesn't need to rev to 8000 rpm to be good. Even current BMW twin-turbo V8's don't go to 8000 rpm.

You missed the point. Sorry.

Not that I think you ever cared to do more than crap on this thread.

Sounds like you're right in the LS's target market. Good on you.

You'll just have to take it on faith that grown adults have good reasons for having different preferences.

 

[4WD]

Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Nobody at Audi Sport is trying to match M cars. The philosophy is totally different. RS cars are right up there with the best and most capable everyday, all weather cars in the world.

And they don't typically need rod bearings as general maintenance.

Everyone has issues, and the higher-strung the car, the greater risk for issues.

Remember the S4 timing chains? Rod bearings in ///M engines, Z06s overheating, everything about the F355, the Porsche IMS, 18+ Mustangs getting new engines left and right.

[censored], someone just posted an action from Hyundai/KIA about rod bearings. Haven't Hyundai been replacing engines for the last few years as well?

Let's stop acting like any manufacturer is perfect. All designs have idiosyncrasies.


True ... the CTS-V and Camaro ZL1 actually kept enough airflow through the front to keep them cool for some amazing track times ...