I change oil at 4 month intervals and choose an oil quality that reflects the miles and service conditions over that time, simple. Another factor is the value of the car itself...that can skew things and is possible why we have different opinions on the subject here. Dino can go 5000-6000, good semi like Syntec Blend or Mobil Clean 7500 is more like 6000-8000 miles. Few people will go 10k in 4 months, but if you like that TIME interval, you need to look at high-end synths. Another point is some people DO NOT want to change their oil and/or have exotic/difficult cars to service. If the dealership hits you for top-dollar for an OC...then synth is definately cost-effective. FTR- I was going 6 month 11k on GC when the Audi dealer did my OC. They did not over-charge me, but some people pay well over $100.
Rethinking Use of Synthetic - Opinions?
- Thread starter HokieRich1
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The whole premise behind synthetic oils is to extend your change interval.
If you swap out synthetic at the same interval as dino it won't be worth it.
If you use synthetic properly, it is actually a cheaper oil change with superior protection.
If you swap out synthetic at the same interval as dino it won't be worth it.
If you use synthetic properly, it is actually a cheaper oil change with superior protection.
As long as gas is over $3 a gal, I'm back to $5 dino OCI here in California.
Maybe the price difference between dino and syn is closer in Canada. But here in California I can use Chevron for 55 cent to $1.00 verses syn for $4 and up. Purolator and ST filters are 1 cent to $2.07. So my 5000 mi OIC is avg $5.
I'd have to go 15000 -20,000 mi on syn to stay around $1 per 1000 miles.
Maybe the price difference between dino and syn is closer in Canada. But here in California I can use Chevron for 55 cent to $1.00 verses syn for $4 and up. Purolator and ST filters are 1 cent to $2.07. So my 5000 mi OIC is avg $5.
I'd have to go 15000 -20,000 mi on syn to stay around $1 per 1000 miles.
Blazer
Im just not sold on the extended change intervals with synthetic. Not saying you are wrong about this. Its just that in my opinion, regardless of what oil you are using, it gets contaminated with water and gasoline and other stuff which isnt good. Thats why Im considering stopping using synthetic as Im going to change it at 5000 miles regardless. Later.
Im just not sold on the extended change intervals with synthetic. Not saying you are wrong about this. Its just that in my opinion, regardless of what oil you are using, it gets contaminated with water and gasoline and other stuff which isnt good. Thats why Im considering stopping using synthetic as Im going to change it at 5000 miles regardless. Later.
Not convinced?
Why do european drivers go for 15,000-20,000 miles on an oil change and never have a problem then.
You just need to get more informed and let the ole' 60s oil change myth out of your head.
If your oil is getting that badly beaten up in 5000miles, you best get a tuneup done and not be so conerned about the oil.
The US is the only country that abides by such small wasteful change intervels.
How is synthetic cheaper? You need a synthetic that will actually go 20,000 miles, cause that's about the interval you'd have to run to break even with dino at 5,000 miles (which will get you the exact same performance). If you can find a decent group 3 like Havoline synthetic for $2 bucks a quart, then that's a different story.
Engines I've maintained with dino look spotless after 100,000 miles and still run great. My Dad's 4.3L Blazer has 190,000 miles mostly on Pennzoil 5w30. Runs like brand new and still gets 21-22 mpg highway. And if you have a GM gasket eater, you'd be ill advised to run 15,000 mile intervals. Just my opinion of course. You'll have to pry my good ol SM/GF-4 buck a quart crap out of my cold dead hands
Engines I've maintained with dino look spotless after 100,000 miles and still run great. My Dad's 4.3L Blazer has 190,000 miles mostly on Pennzoil 5w30. Runs like brand new and still gets 21-22 mpg highway. And if you have a GM gasket eater, you'd be ill advised to run 15,000 mile intervals. Just my opinion of course. You'll have to pry my good ol SM/GF-4 buck a quart crap out of my cold dead hands
I determined that the opposite is the correct thing to do! I use mineral oil in my shared-sump motorcycle, because of the inevitable shearing that occurs, combined with the particulates from the wet-clutch and the inevitable blow-by from large V-twin engines. Shifting quality degrades fairly quickly, and I don't usually get more than 1500 miles on before my shifter tells me it's time to change.
However, on my cars, synthetic seems to be the way to go. I can leave it the entire (manufacturer recommended) 7500 miles with no worries. Once they are out of warranty, an UOA will tell me if/when I can go longer.
Don't know which of us is right, but, I have my opinion!
However, on my cars, synthetic seems to be the way to go. I can leave it the entire (manufacturer recommended) 7500 miles with no worries. Once they are out of warranty, an UOA will tell me if/when I can go longer.
Don't know which of us is right, but, I have my opinion!
For the vast majority of the motoring public any SM rated oil changed at 5000 or less miles is fine. Synthetic oils allow for longer drain intervals, though how much longer will be a never ending debate. They provide better protection at the extremes of temperature and for towing. Synthetics may be cheap insurance if used in engines with known sludge problems such as Toyota's 3L V6. Some of us think Supertech oil is overpriced and must have the cashier at Wally World pry the pennies from our hands. Others of us will take a second job to increase the stash of high priced synthetics so jam packed in our garages that we can't get the car they're meant to protect in. Thankfully, its what makes this website great.
Steeler!
If anyone has a stash like that, I'll drive out to grab a case or two of M-1 5W30 SL.
Hey Ken!
I've been a 3000 mile OCI'r for my whole history as a DIY'r with M-1 and until a year ago, Frams. Fact is, the oil was so "dirty" in my last car (it was a very clean running Hyundai 1.6l 4 cyl with 160K) that I felt compelled to change it. Before BITOG, the concept of long OCI was alien and unfathomable, but that's marketing, I guess. The oil is "dirty", so you change it, right? What did I know? What does ANYONE know that doesn't find a venue such as the BITOG?
However, the oil, oil filter, and quick change industry simply isn't going to promulgate the idea that the oil isn't really so dirty after all, and of course, we here know that it's really just getting warmed up. So, outside this venue, how does the rest of the oil-changing world get the word? From reading here, I've reformed my opinion (and OCI-related behavior) based on the testimony (and UOA) of a lot of folks in the know that reside right here and nowhere else.
So, hereafter, in my new car I purchased, it's 7500 OCI with M-1 Syn with a dask of VSOT, and no more Frams. This dinky little Hyundai I just bought isn't stressing the oil on any level, so I hear, and I would be happy to go 10K, and may, based on 7500 mile UOA that I'll run. If I get a good TBN number, I'll go longer. The fact that this new car is a messy pig to get to the oil filter on is further incentive. I think the trend here IS to go longer OCI. Much longer, and, on Dino. I've been chided many times that syn is a waste of money even at 7500 mile OCI.
Out in the greater world, however, the old ways are still being perpetuated. NO ONE in the oil change industry from the dealer, the oil companies, filter-folks, parts stores, Jiffy-Lube, and all the rest is EVER going to suggest or push a "radical" new theory of a basic car-care tenent such as longer OCI when their business could instantly, or nearly so, be cut by two thirds. In fact, I think they'd do everything they could to squelch the idea of long OCI at every level of advertising there is.
Longer OCI is a very well-kept secret, and it will continue to be so for a long time. Folks who would like to look for conspiracies in the oil industry regarding gasoline prices would be better served looking for a far wider "conspiracy" (if not as intrinsically critical to the economy) involving all of the many elements of the oil change industry. These folks after all, are deliberately (if understandably) keeping people in the dark regarding longer OCI. Which of course, is getting them into the parts store, garage, and quick change shops at least two or three times a year more than is necessary. In a new age of short oil supplies and concern for the environment, would would think folks in the know would speak up, wouldn't one?
My recently-educated 2 cents-worth.
If anyone has a stash like that, I'll drive out to grab a case or two of M-1 5W30 SL.
Hey Ken!
Well, if you say so..I've only been trolling these parts for a year or so, posting for five or six months, but from what I've seen, there's quite a lot of disdain for 3000 mile OCI, dino OR syn.
I've been a 3000 mile OCI'r for my whole history as a DIY'r with M-1 and until a year ago, Frams. Fact is, the oil was so "dirty" in my last car (it was a very clean running Hyundai 1.6l 4 cyl with 160K) that I felt compelled to change it. Before BITOG, the concept of long OCI was alien and unfathomable, but that's marketing, I guess. The oil is "dirty", so you change it, right? What did I know? What does ANYONE know that doesn't find a venue such as the BITOG?
However, the oil, oil filter, and quick change industry simply isn't going to promulgate the idea that the oil isn't really so dirty after all, and of course, we here know that it's really just getting warmed up. So, outside this venue, how does the rest of the oil-changing world get the word? From reading here, I've reformed my opinion (and OCI-related behavior) based on the testimony (and UOA) of a lot of folks in the know that reside right here and nowhere else.
So, hereafter, in my new car I purchased, it's 7500 OCI with M-1 Syn with a dask of VSOT, and no more Frams. This dinky little Hyundai I just bought isn't stressing the oil on any level, so I hear, and I would be happy to go 10K, and may, based on 7500 mile UOA that I'll run. If I get a good TBN number, I'll go longer. The fact that this new car is a messy pig to get to the oil filter on is further incentive. I think the trend here IS to go longer OCI. Much longer, and, on Dino. I've been chided many times that syn is a waste of money even at 7500 mile OCI.
Out in the greater world, however, the old ways are still being perpetuated. NO ONE in the oil change industry from the dealer, the oil companies, filter-folks, parts stores, Jiffy-Lube, and all the rest is EVER going to suggest or push a "radical" new theory of a basic car-care tenent such as longer OCI when their business could instantly, or nearly so, be cut by two thirds. In fact, I think they'd do everything they could to squelch the idea of long OCI at every level of advertising there is.
Longer OCI is a very well-kept secret, and it will continue to be so for a long time. Folks who would like to look for conspiracies in the oil industry regarding gasoline prices would be better served looking for a far wider "conspiracy" (if not as intrinsically critical to the economy) involving all of the many elements of the oil change industry. These folks after all, are deliberately (if understandably) keeping people in the dark regarding longer OCI. Which of course, is getting them into the parts store, garage, and quick change shops at least two or three times a year more than is necessary. In a new age of short oil supplies and concern for the environment, would would think folks in the know would speak up, wouldn't one?
My recently-educated 2 cents-worth.
--------------
Indeed Conventional is a better value than
synthetic. Everyone talks about cost.. yet how
much do we spend ensuring the safety of an
extended OCI? 20, 30 or 40 bucks for a decent
UOA
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Indeed, this is an assumptive, factless statement.
My total tab in both time and money is far less at the end of the year running long synth OCIs, including approximately .5 UOAs per year per vehicle, based on the overall average annual mileage of this particular 4-vehicle fleet. And lest we forget, "value" is a subjective attribute, so if you value spending more money and time doing oil changes, there may be some truth to your statement.
Indeed Conventional is a better value than
synthetic. Everyone talks about cost.. yet how
much do we spend ensuring the safety of an
extended OCI? 20, 30 or 40 bucks for a decent
UOA
--------------
Indeed, this is an assumptive, factless statement.
Ok, how about "time" wise? I use synthetic such as Shell Ultra, Elf Excellium, Total Quartz 9000, Motul Synthetic but in 7 months, I only logged 3000 miles?
Another consideration is that paying someone to do an oil change with whatever dino seems to often run $25 to $30, while doing your own with Mobil 1 often costs about the same.
The cost of oil is a small portion of operating costs. Over 5k miles the difference between 24 and 25 mpg is about 20 bucks at 2.50 a gallon, which would be the difference between the cost of dino vs synthetic. Most people probably waste that with underinflated tires or running the AC a lot.
The cost of oil is a small portion of operating costs. Over 5k miles the difference between 24 and 25 mpg is about 20 bucks at 2.50 a gallon, which would be the difference between the cost of dino vs synthetic. Most people probably waste that with underinflated tires or running the AC a lot.
My car doesn't have a turbo, so I switched from synthetic to dino.
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You've got to realize, m2200B, that most of us here are baby boomers. Some of us are doing mega miles still ..but most of us don't do "soccer parent" anymore. We may have one child still in high school that has a license. We don't do senseless mileage. So what you're missing is that this, for that driver, is an alternative to a 3k/3m OCI with dino
So when you see someone changing out synth @ 5k miles ..you may be looking at a 6 month OCI
Except for my minivan guinea pig, all of my vehicles are basically a Spring/Fall service interval. Some use synths ..some don't. Some do 9k in 6 months ..and some do 3k-5k (and some get skipped and do 9k in 13 months
I would only use a synth if it makes sense to based on service duty or mileage. 9k isn't too short for a synth ..nor would it be for a 3k/6month OCI if the short trip fuel economy was hindered by dino oils (the latest evolution of 5w-20 oils has aided in blurring this distinction).
I too subscribe to 1sttruck's philosophy on maintenance. When you run the numbers there are some factors that are somewhat "speculative" in future avoided costs. With tightwads that intend to get 200-300k out of their rides (on my minivan - even a brand new engine is sensible compared to a $30k new minvan and I don't buy someone else's problems at a premium used)...it seems that "for a few $$ more" you may save a bundle.
Well, I'm probably going to get slammed for this, but I have some unscientific reasons for sticking with synthetic. First, I just switched from Mobil 7500 (and prior to that, Valvoline Durablend) 5w30 to German Castrol 0w30 in my '99 Honda Accord 2.3 litre and the engine runs a lot (and I mean A LOT) more quietly. Yes, I will extend my OCI a bit (to 5 months - the car sees almost exclusively short, around town trips). Second, my '03 Accord 2.4 litre gets over 35 MPG on the highway with M1 or PP 5w-20, and it slips below that with dino. Once again, this is not scientific, but I feel good using these oils. After all, the original post asked for "opinions", not substantive arguments.
First post, am learning as I read. For the last 3,000,000 miles or so (mid 80's) I have been using 1 quart (usually M1) to about 5 quarts of dino (usually havoline) in all my stuff. Cars, trucks, bikes, 4 wheelers, lawnmowers, etc... and have been very happy. I have NEVER seen anything but clean motors, and I have abused the heck outa these sometimes. I try to do oil changes at 5-7000 miles or yearly at worse. My oil caps stay clean, I see no reason to be too concerned.
In my Porsche, I now run Rotella with no problems, the bimmer is factory, but I cannot allow 15k between changes. Is new (2k) but will see changes at 8-9k or so.
I believe our oil today, g3,g4,g5 is much better than yesteryear. If we stretch our oil, regardless of manufacturer, you will pay dearly. I've seen several huge turbines fail because of oil failure. Due to bad intel, and all synthetic oil users. We lost turbines, one $17k per hour to keep down. Using M1, but no analysis (we were saving money). yeah right!
I've read for days, you guys know oil. But like the Ford/Chevy debate we chose sides. I believe at least a syn blend is favorable, has worked for me (for many years/miles). I see Rotella mentioned very little, why?
In my Porsche, I now run Rotella with no problems, the bimmer is factory, but I cannot allow 15k between changes. Is new (2k) but will see changes at 8-9k or so.
I believe our oil today, g3,g4,g5 is much better than yesteryear. If we stretch our oil, regardless of manufacturer, you will pay dearly. I've seen several huge turbines fail because of oil failure. Due to bad intel, and all synthetic oil users. We lost turbines, one $17k per hour to keep down. Using M1, but no analysis (we were saving money). yeah right!
I've read for days, you guys know oil. But like the Ford/Chevy debate we chose sides. I believe at least a syn blend is favorable, has worked for me (for many years/miles). I see Rotella mentioned very little, why?
First:
Second, it's because you aren't reading the Motorcycle oil board. Rotella is loved over there!
Once again alot of ASSUMPTIONS by being here we are not most people, most of us are fanatical about car care so these quicky lube analogys and low tire oor habit assumptions are not good arguments whne we are talking about our uses with the best practical uses.
I just stocked up on tropartic at 1.48 a quart with filters I can get for 3.5 and a 6qt fill I am looking at 12.50 per oil change done every 6 months or 5k miles. That's 25 bucks a year per vehicle. Add the 2.40 per OCI of lube control use and it's still cheap.
Just remember that DINO's start to shear down at 1200 miles. By 3000 miles, a 10W-40 shears down to a 30W, a 10w30 shears down to a 20W, and a 5w30, shears down to a . . . . . Well, you get the idea.
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