Replacing oil pump- Standard vs. High Volume?
- Thread starter panthermike
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Originally Posted By: panthermike
Chris142 said:
Mike:
There are a lot of armchair mechanics on here with bad information. Use your head.
If you are going to do this and you have low oil pressure, go with the high volume pump. Sure it is a crutch for some other problem, but it is easy and cheap.
A high volume pump usually has a slightly longer gearset (sometimes larger diameter) than a std volume pump, about 0.5 inch or so. Make sure you are really getting a pump with a larger gearset.
It looks like your Ford FE engine has a bolt on pickup, so you dont have to worry about that too much. I would still check the pan to pickup clearance with some modeling clay just to be sure.
This is an easy guaranteed way to boost the oil pressure. Replacing the stock pump would be no benefit at all. The amount of end plate wear on an oil pump is never enough to affect the oil pressure.
Also, I would search the Summit Racing online catalog for oil pumps. I am not a Ford engine builder, but I do know there are lots of trick oil pumps available for other engines that have bolt on and adjustable pickups, and lots of performance related options and drives.
http://www.summitracing.com/search/Make/FORD/Engine-Size/6-4L-390/Engine-Family/Ford-big-block-FE/
Jeff
There are a lot of armchair mechanics on here with bad information. Use your head.
If you are going to do this and you have low oil pressure, go with the high volume pump. Sure it is a crutch for some other problem, but it is easy and cheap.
A high volume pump usually has a slightly longer gearset (sometimes larger diameter) than a std volume pump, about 0.5 inch or so. Make sure you are really getting a pump with a larger gearset.
It looks like your Ford FE engine has a bolt on pickup, so you dont have to worry about that too much. I would still check the pan to pickup clearance with some modeling clay just to be sure.
This is an easy guaranteed way to boost the oil pressure. Replacing the stock pump would be no benefit at all. The amount of end plate wear on an oil pump is never enough to affect the oil pressure.
Also, I would search the Summit Racing online catalog for oil pumps. I am not a Ford engine builder, but I do know there are lots of trick oil pumps available for other engines that have bolt on and adjustable pickups, and lots of performance related options and drives.
http://www.summitracing.com/search/Make/FORD/Engine-Size/6-4L-390/Engine-Family/Ford-big-block-FE/
Jeff
dont forget the factory intended the engine to spin only so fast. if you spin it a lot faster, ie racing ,on some engines, you can have trouble. there is one engine that will wipe out two main bearings, cause the oil is going so fast it cant turn the corner, the fix is to block off oil passages, and add a bypass tube. but this is race ONLY. at stocks rpms you should never cause trouble.
Originally Posted By: morris
dont forget the factory intended the engine to spin only so fast. if you spin it a lot faster, ie racing ,on some engines, you can have trouble. there is one engine that will wipe out two main bearings, cause the oil is going so fast it cant turn the corner, the fix is to block off oil passages, and add a bypass tube. but this is race ONLY. at stocks rpms you should never cause trouble.
i believe your talking about the wash out problems of the turbo 3.8 from the GNX right? it had a HV/HP pump. its the excess of pressure that takes out bearings
dont forget the factory intended the engine to spin only so fast. if you spin it a lot faster, ie racing ,on some engines, you can have trouble. there is one engine that will wipe out two main bearings, cause the oil is going so fast it cant turn the corner, the fix is to block off oil passages, and add a bypass tube. but this is race ONLY. at stocks rpms you should never cause trouble.
i believe your talking about the wash out problems of the turbo 3.8 from the GNX right? it had a HV/HP pump. its the excess of pressure that takes out bearings
What's the difference if the bores are loose or the lifters?
Too much clearance is too much.
I would go for the HV pump. AT 30+ years old, it will help.
Pump your pan dry? Theories are wonderful! It ain't gonna happen!
Too much clearance is too much.
I would go for the HV pump. AT 30+ years old, it will help.
Pump your pan dry? Theories are wonderful! It ain't gonna happen!
A HV pump wont fix a stuck or calapsed lifter, bent pushrod or flat cam. After putting the pump in it's still going to tick. Plus the OP is going off the stock oil pressure guage and we all agree that those are junk.
The thing may have 60 psi of oil pressure for all we know.
The thing may have 60 psi of oil pressure for all we know.
Originally Posted By: Jeff_in_VABch
Mike:
There are a lot of armchair mechanics on here with bad information. Use your head.
If you are going to do this and you have low oil pressure, go with the high volume pump. Sure it is a crutch for some other problem, but it is easy and cheap.
A high volume pump usually has a slightly longer gearset (sometimes larger diameter) than a std volume pump, about 0.5 inch or so. Make sure you are really getting a pump with a larger gearset.
It looks like your Ford FE engine has a bolt on pickup, so you dont have to worry about that too much. I would still check the pan to pickup clearance with some modeling clay just to be sure.
This is an easy guaranteed way to boost the oil pressure. Replacing the stock pump would be no benefit at all. The amount of end plate wear on an oil pump is never enough to affect the oil pressure.
Also, I would search the Summit Racing online catalog for oil pumps. I am not a Ford engine builder, but I do know there are lots of trick oil pumps available for other engines that have bolt on and adjustable pickups, and lots of performance related options and drives.
http://www.summitracing.com/search/Make/FORD/Engine-Size/6-4L-390/Engine-Family/Ford-big-block-FE/
Jeff
Surely it's possible that the pump gears/rest of the pump are worn. Not just the end of the gears and end plate.
Mike:
There are a lot of armchair mechanics on here with bad information. Use your head.
If you are going to do this and you have low oil pressure, go with the high volume pump. Sure it is a crutch for some other problem, but it is easy and cheap.
A high volume pump usually has a slightly longer gearset (sometimes larger diameter) than a std volume pump, about 0.5 inch or so. Make sure you are really getting a pump with a larger gearset.
It looks like your Ford FE engine has a bolt on pickup, so you dont have to worry about that too much. I would still check the pan to pickup clearance with some modeling clay just to be sure.
This is an easy guaranteed way to boost the oil pressure. Replacing the stock pump would be no benefit at all. The amount of end plate wear on an oil pump is never enough to affect the oil pressure.
Also, I would search the Summit Racing online catalog for oil pumps. I am not a Ford engine builder, but I do know there are lots of trick oil pumps available for other engines that have bolt on and adjustable pickups, and lots of performance related options and drives.
http://www.summitracing.com/search/Make/FORD/Engine-Size/6-4L-390/Engine-Family/Ford-big-block-FE/
Jeff
Surely it's possible that the pump gears/rest of the pump are worn. Not just the end of the gears and end plate.
Originally Posted By: oilboy123
Surely it's possible that the pump gears/rest of the pump are worn. Not just the end of the gears and end plate.
It wouldnt matter as the gears contact each other and form their own rotor to rotor contact seal. The leakage points are the end plates, and even that is minimal. There is some leakage built-in by design to balance the pump pressure. A racing oil pump will have hand grooved end plates and be run on a dyno to fully balance the flow.
Surely it's possible that the pump gears/rest of the pump are worn. Not just the end of the gears and end plate.
It wouldnt matter as the gears contact each other and form their own rotor to rotor contact seal. The leakage points are the end plates, and even that is minimal. There is some leakage built-in by design to balance the pump pressure. A racing oil pump will have hand grooved end plates and be run on a dyno to fully balance the flow.
Originally Posted By: Chris142
A HV pump wont fix a stuck or calapsed lifter, bent pushrod or flat cam. After putting the pump in it's still going to tick. Plus the OP is going off the stock oil pressure guage and we all agree that those are junk.
The thing may have 60 psi of oil pressure for all we know.
I agree on all points.
If you have to replace the pan gasket, might as well replace the pump though. And clean up/clean out that pan too.
A HV pump wont fix a stuck or calapsed lifter, bent pushrod or flat cam. After putting the pump in it's still going to tick. Plus the OP is going off the stock oil pressure guage and we all agree that those are junk.
The thing may have 60 psi of oil pressure for all we know.
I agree on all points.
If you have to replace the pan gasket, might as well replace the pump though. And clean up/clean out that pan too.
Originally Posted By: Jeff_in_VABch
Originally Posted By: Chris142
A HV pump wont fix a stuck or calapsed lifter, bent pushrod or flat cam. After putting the pump in it's still going to tick. Plus the OP is going off the stock oil pressure guage and we all agree that those are junk.
The thing may have 60 psi of oil pressure for all we know.
I agree on all points.
If you have to replace the pan gasket, might as well replace the pump though. And clean up/clean out that pan too.
^Ditto, I'd still say go with stock.
Originally Posted By: Chris142
A HV pump wont fix a stuck or calapsed lifter, bent pushrod or flat cam. After putting the pump in it's still going to tick. Plus the OP is going off the stock oil pressure guage and we all agree that those are junk.
The thing may have 60 psi of oil pressure for all we know.
I agree on all points.
If you have to replace the pan gasket, might as well replace the pump though. And clean up/clean out that pan too.
^Ditto, I'd still say go with stock.
Last edited:
The 390 is one of the engines out there that have more pressure than most! If this is just a stock app., go for the stock pump. Racing apps. usually have a much deeper pan.Also with an HV most of the oil is pumped to the top of the engine & doesn't drain back quick enough so the bearings won't get enough oil & you can burn it up! Thus the 8 to 10 quart pan.
If oil pressure is the problem Federal-Mogul has a high pressure pump #224-43365A. Check it out it might help!
If oil pressure is the problem Federal-Mogul has a high pressure pump #224-43365A. Check it out it might help!
Thanks for all of the advice folks. I'm a little ways out from doing the job, so I have time to decide which route to take.
Either way, I'll definately do a good manual cleaning while the pan is off.
Little by little, trying to make this truck run like a dream!
Either way, I'll definately do a good manual cleaning while the pan is off.
Little by little, trying to make this truck run like a dream!
I think a few here are confusing a high volume pump with a high pressure pump. Both are available.
The high volume pump won't increase pressure over the stock pump, just pump more oil to the bearings.
The high volume pump won't increase pressure over the stock pump, just pump more oil to the bearings.
Originally Posted By: dwendt44
I think a few here are confusing a high volume pump with a high pressure pump. Both are available.
The high volume pump won't increase pressure over the stock pump, just pump more oil to the bearings.
So you are missing "no such thing as": Too much oil pressure, or too much oil volume.....
There's no such thing as:
Too big of a battery,
Too large of a gas tank,
or too loud of a horn,
or too bright headlights.
I think a few here are confusing a high volume pump with a high pressure pump. Both are available.
The high volume pump won't increase pressure over the stock pump, just pump more oil to the bearings.
So you are missing "no such thing as": Too much oil pressure, or too much oil volume.....
There's no such thing as:
Too big of a battery,
Too large of a gas tank,
or too loud of a horn,
or too bright headlights.
Originally Posted By: oilboy123
Originally Posted By: dwendt44
I think a few here are confusing a high volume pump with a high pressure pump. Both are available.
The high volume pump won't increase pressure over the stock pump, just pump more oil to the bearings.
So you are missing "no such thing as": Too much oil pressure, or too much oil volume.....
There's no such thing as:
Too big of a battery,
Too large of a gas tank,
or too loud of a horn,
or too bright headlights.
I'm definitely new and want to learn, since I didn't really know I only knew to lean on the side of caution.
Originally Posted By: dwendt44
I think a few here are confusing a high volume pump with a high pressure pump. Both are available.
The high volume pump won't increase pressure over the stock pump, just pump more oil to the bearings.
So you are missing "no such thing as": Too much oil pressure, or too much oil volume.....
There's no such thing as:
Too big of a battery,
Too large of a gas tank,
or too loud of a horn,
or too bright headlights.
I'm definitely new and want to learn, since I didn't really know I only knew to lean on the side of caution.
Originally Posted By: Jeff_in_VABch
Mike:
There are a lot of armchair mechanics on here with bad information. Use your head.
If you are going to do this and you have low oil pressure, go with the high volume pump. Sure it is a crutch for some other problem, but it is easy and cheap.
A high volume pump usually has a slightly longer gearset (sometimes larger diameter) than a std volume pump, about 0.5 inch or so. Make sure you are really getting a pump with a larger gearset.
It looks like your Ford FE engine has a bolt on pickup, so you dont have to worry about that too much. I would still check the pan to pickup clearance with some modeling clay just to be sure.
This is an easy guaranteed way to boost the oil pressure. Replacing the stock pump would be no benefit at all. The amount of end plate wear on an oil pump is never enough to affect the oil pressure.
Also, I would search the Summit Racing online catalog for oil pumps. I am not a Ford engine builder, but I do know there are lots of trick oil pumps available for other engines that have bolt on and adjustable pickups, and lots of performance related options and drives.
http://www.summitracing.com/search/Make/FORD/Engine-Size/6-4L-390/Engine-Family/Ford-big-block-FE/
Jeff
There's been a lot of good advice, and some advice in this thread backed by scenarios that can happen if there are other existing problems. THIS QUOTE, to me packs the most common sense and would be my personal go-by.
M
Mike:
There are a lot of armchair mechanics on here with bad information. Use your head.
If you are going to do this and you have low oil pressure, go with the high volume pump. Sure it is a crutch for some other problem, but it is easy and cheap.
A high volume pump usually has a slightly longer gearset (sometimes larger diameter) than a std volume pump, about 0.5 inch or so. Make sure you are really getting a pump with a larger gearset.
It looks like your Ford FE engine has a bolt on pickup, so you dont have to worry about that too much. I would still check the pan to pickup clearance with some modeling clay just to be sure.
This is an easy guaranteed way to boost the oil pressure. Replacing the stock pump would be no benefit at all. The amount of end plate wear on an oil pump is never enough to affect the oil pressure.
Also, I would search the Summit Racing online catalog for oil pumps. I am not a Ford engine builder, but I do know there are lots of trick oil pumps available for other engines that have bolt on and adjustable pickups, and lots of performance related options and drives.
http://www.summitracing.com/search/Make/FORD/Engine-Size/6-4L-390/Engine-Family/Ford-big-block-FE/
Jeff
There's been a lot of good advice, and some advice in this thread backed by scenarios that can happen if there are other existing problems. THIS QUOTE, to me packs the most common sense and would be my personal go-by.
M
[
Originally Posted By: electrolover
Originally Posted By: chubbs1
Qdeezie is absolutely right. You actually risk starvation with the HV pump! Just go with the regular stock pump, it will be more than sufficient. Good Luck!
that is completely wrong! i dont know where you get your info. when a pump by passes oil goes back into the pan. its not going to move more volume than needed to maintain pressure. i have run HV pumps in every SBC i ever built! most were with stock oil pans and i never lost any pressure from oil starvation. aftermarket oil pans are for decreased windage , lower oil temps, and oil control with baffles, so your oil doesnt slosh around in hard cornering or braking
and to who ever said a HV pump blew up an oil filter..well that was mistaken or some kind of malfunction. the filter should by pass and the pump should by pass too way before a filter explodes. cant blame it on the volume
a high volume pump doesnt up pressure its just CAPABLE of more volume to keep stock oil pressure. when stock pressure is reached it by passes and oil goes back to the pan. when pressure is needed it doesnt by pass.
i would not however go with a High Pressure pump or HP/HV design. more pressure isnt needed and wash out is possible
I highlighted SBC because this is what you have based your response on. You are comparing apples to oranges, but yet you are saying "if it works for one, it works for all".
If you don't mind, whenever you get a second, do a bit of research on Ford V8s in general (SBF and FE to be specific) and let me know what you think afterwards. With a standard oil pan (probably 5 quart more than likely) on an FE engine, I definitely wouldn't try it.
If you put enough pressure to an oil filter, it can definitely cause it to fail. Why do the upper tier oil filters have better construction/thicker cases if the risk for failure wasn't there due to increased oil pressure?
Also, I wonder why one of the main selling points of deep sump oil pans is "ensures adequate oil supply to pickup area" if there's not an ounce of truth to that? Why aren't manufacturers selling stock volume oil pans with a windage tray to reduce windage? If you have a high volume oil pump on your vehicle and drive it hard enough, the risk for starvation is there.
Originally Posted By: electrolover
Originally Posted By: chubbs1
Qdeezie is absolutely right. You actually risk starvation with the HV pump! Just go with the regular stock pump, it will be more than sufficient. Good Luck!
that is completely wrong! i dont know where you get your info. when a pump by passes oil goes back into the pan. its not going to move more volume than needed to maintain pressure. i have run HV pumps in every SBC i ever built! most were with stock oil pans and i never lost any pressure from oil starvation. aftermarket oil pans are for decreased windage , lower oil temps, and oil control with baffles, so your oil doesnt slosh around in hard cornering or braking
and to who ever said a HV pump blew up an oil filter..well that was mistaken or some kind of malfunction. the filter should by pass and the pump should by pass too way before a filter explodes. cant blame it on the volume
a high volume pump doesnt up pressure its just CAPABLE of more volume to keep stock oil pressure. when stock pressure is reached it by passes and oil goes back to the pan. when pressure is needed it doesnt by pass.
i would not however go with a High Pressure pump or HP/HV design. more pressure isnt needed and wash out is possible
I highlighted SBC because this is what you have based your response on. You are comparing apples to oranges, but yet you are saying "if it works for one, it works for all".
If you don't mind, whenever you get a second, do a bit of research on Ford V8s in general (SBF and FE to be specific) and let me know what you think afterwards. With a standard oil pan (probably 5 quart more than likely) on an FE engine, I definitely wouldn't try it.
If you put enough pressure to an oil filter, it can definitely cause it to fail. Why do the upper tier oil filters have better construction/thicker cases if the risk for failure wasn't there due to increased oil pressure?
Also, I wonder why one of the main selling points of deep sump oil pans is "ensures adequate oil supply to pickup area" if there's not an ounce of truth to that? Why aren't manufacturers selling stock volume oil pans with a windage tray to reduce windage? If you have a high volume oil pump on your vehicle and drive it hard enough, the risk for starvation is there.
With the truck being a 1970 I'm sure it has some miles on it. And with most high mileage vehicles it burns oil and has less oil pressure than it once had. I'm guessing your pump is fine and buying a new standard or high volume one wont change anything. But if you suspect the pump is bad...by all means replace it.
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