All fine but in the end "good enough" is what most want. Practical usually wins out over perfect. In the end if whatever steps are taken don't fully revive a lead-acid battery, the solution is replacement.
Redneck Battery Recovery
- Thread starter cwilliamsws6
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Genius. When it fails.... replace it. Whodathunk?
I am saying one can achieve excellent battery longevity by truly fully 100% charging the intentionally or inintentionally discharged battery, and keeping it fully charged, or nearly so, as often and as practical as possible.
The vehicle's voltage regulator cannot and will not allow this. It does not matter if it has 3 lovingly polished 300 amp alternators. A well depleted battery needs to be brought to and held in the mid 14's for a certain amount of time, and this time requirement is much longer than anyone believes. Clearly evident in this thread. Few if any vehicle's voltage regulators are designed for truly fully charging a depleted battery, as it is much safer to undercharge.
Smart chargers will also not achieve this benchmark of a 100% full charge, no matter how well written their marketing mumbo jumbo is, as they are primarily designed to never overcharge a battery. Yet people put ridiculous faith in their charger's green light, and the wiseness of their purchase. They will claim how well it works with no proof other than that the battery then can start their car after use.
The lead acid battery kept at 99.5 to 100% state of charge WILL last twice as long as the battery kept hovering in the 92% charged range. Yet the vehicle's charging system or so called 'smart' chargers will almost never get a depleted battery to 100% state of charge, no matter how long the vehicle is driven. The more depleted the battery and the less healthy it is, the less likelyit is that either charging source can ever truly fully charge it, and the full charge is exactly what that less than healthy battery is craving. Without it its capacity and performance declines faster and faster.
People would be amazed just how degraded a battery can be, and still start a modern fuel injected gas vehicle.
Add in the increasing parasitic loads of modern vehicles, and vehicular charging systems that intentionally keep the battery at 80% charged or less, and batteries are lasting shorter and shorter periods of time and consumers think this is due to battery quality, as opposed to the average state o f charge of the battery, andthe misconception that a driven vehicle almost always is shut off with a fully charged battery.
This lack of ability to reach a full charge, is provable time and again with a simple hydrometer on flooded batteries, yet almost no one ever will, and attribute battery longevity,or lack there of, to who manufactures it, or its sticker.
Obviously not everybody can or will exend the effort to maximize the battery longevity. The efforts and equipment to do so can be taken to extremes.
People Should be aware of what Ideal is though, and not think a 1.5 amp trickle charger on a battery which required a jumpstart is the next morning recovered and fully charged. It is far from that.
Maintenance minded Bitogers should be aware of the 3.5 hour rule from 80% to 100%, when ideal charging voltages are held.
And that ideal battery charging voltages are NEVER held long enough by anything automatic.
As far as some people go on this forum go regarding vehicle maintenance and minimizing costs of oil changes through sales and rebates and extended OCI's, the ignorance regarding the proper care and feeding of Lead acid batteries for improved longevity, is astounding.
I am saying one can achieve excellent battery longevity by truly fully 100% charging the intentionally or inintentionally discharged battery, and keeping it fully charged, or nearly so, as often and as practical as possible.
The vehicle's voltage regulator cannot and will not allow this. It does not matter if it has 3 lovingly polished 300 amp alternators. A well depleted battery needs to be brought to and held in the mid 14's for a certain amount of time, and this time requirement is much longer than anyone believes. Clearly evident in this thread. Few if any vehicle's voltage regulators are designed for truly fully charging a depleted battery, as it is much safer to undercharge.
Smart chargers will also not achieve this benchmark of a 100% full charge, no matter how well written their marketing mumbo jumbo is, as they are primarily designed to never overcharge a battery. Yet people put ridiculous faith in their charger's green light, and the wiseness of their purchase. They will claim how well it works with no proof other than that the battery then can start their car after use.
The lead acid battery kept at 99.5 to 100% state of charge WILL last twice as long as the battery kept hovering in the 92% charged range. Yet the vehicle's charging system or so called 'smart' chargers will almost never get a depleted battery to 100% state of charge, no matter how long the vehicle is driven. The more depleted the battery and the less healthy it is, the less likelyit is that either charging source can ever truly fully charge it, and the full charge is exactly what that less than healthy battery is craving. Without it its capacity and performance declines faster and faster.
People would be amazed just how degraded a battery can be, and still start a modern fuel injected gas vehicle.
Add in the increasing parasitic loads of modern vehicles, and vehicular charging systems that intentionally keep the battery at 80% charged or less, and batteries are lasting shorter and shorter periods of time and consumers think this is due to battery quality, as opposed to the average state o f charge of the battery, andthe misconception that a driven vehicle almost always is shut off with a fully charged battery.
This lack of ability to reach a full charge, is provable time and again with a simple hydrometer on flooded batteries, yet almost no one ever will, and attribute battery longevity,or lack there of, to who manufactures it, or its sticker.
Obviously not everybody can or will exend the effort to maximize the battery longevity. The efforts and equipment to do so can be taken to extremes.
People Should be aware of what Ideal is though, and not think a 1.5 amp trickle charger on a battery which required a jumpstart is the next morning recovered and fully charged. It is far from that.
Maintenance minded Bitogers should be aware of the 3.5 hour rule from 80% to 100%, when ideal charging voltages are held.
And that ideal battery charging voltages are NEVER held long enough by anything automatic.
As far as some people go on this forum go regarding vehicle maintenance and minimizing costs of oil changes through sales and rebates and extended OCI's, the ignorance regarding the proper care and feeding of Lead acid batteries for improved longevity, is astounding.
Originally Posted by wrcsixeight
Genius. When it fails.... replace it. Whodathunk?
I am saying one can achieve excellent battery longevity by truly fully 100% charging the intentionally or inintentionally discharged battery, and keeping it fully charged, or nearly so, as often and as practical as possible.
The vehicle's voltage regulator cannot and will not allow this. It does not matter if it has 3 lovingly polished 300 amp alternators. A well depleted battery needs to be brought to and held in the mid 14's for a certain amount of time, and this time requirement is much longer than anyone believes. Clearly evident in this thread. Few if any vehicle's voltage regulators are designed for truly fully charging a depleted battery, as it is much safer to undercharge.
Smart chargers will also not achieve this benchmark of a 100% full charge, no matter how well written their marketing mumbo jumbo is, as they are primarily designed to never overcharge a battery. Yet people put ridiculous faith in their charger's green light, and the wiseness of their purchase. They will claim how well it works with no proof other than that the battery then can start their car after use.
The lead acid battery kept at 99.5 to 100% state of charge WILL last twice as long as the battery kept hovering in the 92% charged range. Yet the vehicle's charging system or so called 'smart' chargers will almost never get a depleted battery to 100% state of charge, no matter how long the vehicle is driven. The more depleted the battery and the less healthy it is, the less likelyit is that either charging source can ever truly fully charge it, and the full charge is exactly what that less than healthy battery is craving. Without it its capacity and performance declines faster and faster.
People would be amazed just how degraded a battery can be, and still start a modern fuel injected gas vehicle.
Add in the increasing parasitic loads of modern vehicles, and vehicular charging systems that intentionally keep the battery at 80% charged or less, and batteries are lasting shorter and shorter periods of time and consumers think this is due to battery quality, as opposed to the average state o f charge of the battery, andthe misconception that a driven vehicle almost always is shut off with a fully charged battery.
This lack of ability to reach a full charge, is provable time and again with a simple hydrometer on flooded batteries, yet almost no one ever will, and attribute battery longevity,or lack there of, to who manufactures it, or its sticker.
Obviously not everybody can or will exend the effort to maximize the battery longevity. The efforts and equipment to do so can be taken to extremes.
People Should be aware of what Ideal is though, and not think a 1.5 amp trickle charger on a battery which required a jumpstart is the next morning recovered and fully charged. It is far from that.
Maintenance minded Bitogers should be aware of the 3.5 hour rule from 80% to 100%, when ideal charging voltages are held.
And that ideal battery charging voltages are NEVER held long enough by anything automatic.
As far as some people go on this forum go regarding vehicle maintenance and minimizing costs of oil changes through sales and rebates and extended OCI's, the ignorance regarding the proper care and feeding of Lead acid batteries for improved longevity, is astounding.
If my battery still reliably starts my car after 5-7 years, I'm happy.
I and my coworker's husband were fully aware that the battery wasn't going to be fully charged overnight. Originally he wasn't even willing to drive more than 3 miles from work to his apartment carport, so overnight on 1.5 amps was considerably better. This is the reality. A battery is a wear item like tires or brakes. If owners end up replacing them every 4 years instead of 6, it's not really a big issue for most people.
Genius. When it fails.... replace it. Whodathunk?
I am saying one can achieve excellent battery longevity by truly fully 100% charging the intentionally or inintentionally discharged battery, and keeping it fully charged, or nearly so, as often and as practical as possible.
The vehicle's voltage regulator cannot and will not allow this. It does not matter if it has 3 lovingly polished 300 amp alternators. A well depleted battery needs to be brought to and held in the mid 14's for a certain amount of time, and this time requirement is much longer than anyone believes. Clearly evident in this thread. Few if any vehicle's voltage regulators are designed for truly fully charging a depleted battery, as it is much safer to undercharge.
Smart chargers will also not achieve this benchmark of a 100% full charge, no matter how well written their marketing mumbo jumbo is, as they are primarily designed to never overcharge a battery. Yet people put ridiculous faith in their charger's green light, and the wiseness of their purchase. They will claim how well it works with no proof other than that the battery then can start their car after use.
The lead acid battery kept at 99.5 to 100% state of charge WILL last twice as long as the battery kept hovering in the 92% charged range. Yet the vehicle's charging system or so called 'smart' chargers will almost never get a depleted battery to 100% state of charge, no matter how long the vehicle is driven. The more depleted the battery and the less healthy it is, the less likelyit is that either charging source can ever truly fully charge it, and the full charge is exactly what that less than healthy battery is craving. Without it its capacity and performance declines faster and faster.
People would be amazed just how degraded a battery can be, and still start a modern fuel injected gas vehicle.
Add in the increasing parasitic loads of modern vehicles, and vehicular charging systems that intentionally keep the battery at 80% charged or less, and batteries are lasting shorter and shorter periods of time and consumers think this is due to battery quality, as opposed to the average state o f charge of the battery, andthe misconception that a driven vehicle almost always is shut off with a fully charged battery.
This lack of ability to reach a full charge, is provable time and again with a simple hydrometer on flooded batteries, yet almost no one ever will, and attribute battery longevity,or lack there of, to who manufactures it, or its sticker.
Obviously not everybody can or will exend the effort to maximize the battery longevity. The efforts and equipment to do so can be taken to extremes.
People Should be aware of what Ideal is though, and not think a 1.5 amp trickle charger on a battery which required a jumpstart is the next morning recovered and fully charged. It is far from that.
Maintenance minded Bitogers should be aware of the 3.5 hour rule from 80% to 100%, when ideal charging voltages are held.
And that ideal battery charging voltages are NEVER held long enough by anything automatic.
As far as some people go on this forum go regarding vehicle maintenance and minimizing costs of oil changes through sales and rebates and extended OCI's, the ignorance regarding the proper care and feeding of Lead acid batteries for improved longevity, is astounding.
If my battery still reliably starts my car after 5-7 years, I'm happy.
I and my coworker's husband were fully aware that the battery wasn't going to be fully charged overnight. Originally he wasn't even willing to drive more than 3 miles from work to his apartment carport, so overnight on 1.5 amps was considerably better. This is the reality. A battery is a wear item like tires or brakes. If owners end up replacing them every 4 years instead of 6, it's not really a big issue for most people.
Of course any charging is better than no charging, just like one additional quart of oil added to a sump 3 quarts low, is better than no oil at all added.
Quote
If owners end up replacing them every 4 years instead of 6, it's not really a big issue for most people.
Yea, what's a 50% difference in service life......
Quote
If owners end up replacing them every 4 years instead of 6, it's not really a big issue for most people.
Yea, what's a 50% difference in service life......
i have a semi offgrid setup.
and install/maintain systems.
the info wrc and i posted apply to ANY lead acid battery.
be it a tiny one in a subaru or an industrial forklift battery.
probably the most neglected and abused item in a vehicle or solar system.
at least with a vehicle battery one can easily deal with this if one cares enough.
on an offgrid system it may take a lot of generator runtime to deal with the deficit one faces in the winter.
skimp on the generator and run in the deficit and you soon have sulphated batteries and the death spiral begins.
and install/maintain systems.
the info wrc and i posted apply to ANY lead acid battery.
be it a tiny one in a subaru or an industrial forklift battery.
probably the most neglected and abused item in a vehicle or solar system.
at least with a vehicle battery one can easily deal with this if one cares enough.
on an offgrid system it may take a lot of generator runtime to deal with the deficit one faces in the winter.
skimp on the generator and run in the deficit and you soon have sulphated batteries and the death spiral begins.
Originally Posted by kc8adu
i have a semi offgrid setup.
and install/maintain systems.
the info wrc and i posted apply to ANY lead acid battery.
be it a tiny one in a subaru or an industrial forklift battery.
probably the most neglected and abused item in a vehicle or solar system.
at least with a vehicle battery one can easily deal with this if one cares enough.
on an offgrid system it may take a lot of generator runtime to deal with the deficit one faces in the winter.
skimp on the generator and run in the deficit and you soon have sulphated batteries and the death spiral begins.
The Winco generator I bought used had been used to live off the grid. It was propane. First the engine burned the valves so engine was replaced. Then the generator head failed and they sold it to me. I fooled around with fixing generator head but ended up with a new generator head. Once I got it working I kind of lost interest and its been in garage for a couple of years just sitting.
Moral of the story is to live off the grid will require a generator that is designed to run 24x7 for weeks at a time. Not a standby generator.
i have a semi offgrid setup.
and install/maintain systems.
the info wrc and i posted apply to ANY lead acid battery.
be it a tiny one in a subaru or an industrial forklift battery.
probably the most neglected and abused item in a vehicle or solar system.
at least with a vehicle battery one can easily deal with this if one cares enough.
on an offgrid system it may take a lot of generator runtime to deal with the deficit one faces in the winter.
skimp on the generator and run in the deficit and you soon have sulphated batteries and the death spiral begins.
The Winco generator I bought used had been used to live off the grid. It was propane. First the engine burned the valves so engine was replaced. Then the generator head failed and they sold it to me. I fooled around with fixing generator head but ended up with a new generator head. Once I got it working I kind of lost interest and its been in garage for a couple of years just sitting.
Moral of the story is to live off the grid will require a generator that is designed to run 24x7 for weeks at a time. Not a standby generator.
Since I've become a weekend driver (no longer drive to work) the last 27 years, and make mostly short trips I fully charge the battery every 3 months.
Here's how:
I bring the battery into my cool basement (no garage, park on the street).
I use an adjustable 5A power supply, set to 14.5V, and charge overnight.
Similar to this:
https://www.amazon.com/Dr-meter-Single-Output-Switchable-Alligator-included/dp/B00O8DJ8QC
I observe for 30-60 minutes to confirm that the charge current has stopped tapering.
Then I charge ~30 minutes at 16V to equalize.
A couple times I've replaced 10 y.o. batteries still going strong, not wanting to push my luck.
Other times the car gets sold, stolen etc. before the battery fails.
If I were in a hot climate or daily driving I'd use a different strategy.
For last ~9 months I have a pair of 10W solar panels I sit on the dash.
I checked in full sunlight they hold the battery at 13.1V.
I plan to do the charge and equalize every 6 months to a year.
Here's how:
I bring the battery into my cool basement (no garage, park on the street).
I use an adjustable 5A power supply, set to 14.5V, and charge overnight.
Similar to this:
https://www.amazon.com/Dr-meter-Single-Output-Switchable-Alligator-included/dp/B00O8DJ8QC
I observe for 30-60 minutes to confirm that the charge current has stopped tapering.
Then I charge ~30 minutes at 16V to equalize.
A couple times I've replaced 10 y.o. batteries still going strong, not wanting to push my luck.
Other times the car gets sold, stolen etc. before the battery fails.
If I were in a hot climate or daily driving I'd use a different strategy.
For last ~9 months I have a pair of 10W solar panels I sit on the dash.
I checked in full sunlight they hold the battery at 13.1V.
I plan to do the charge and equalize every 6 months to a year.
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