Redline 0w20 15,458miles Focus

[Artem]

Originally Posted By: buster
15k is pushing it for any oil IMO, unless you're getting a good UOA read. I'm becoming more conservative on extended drains.


Why? Here i am trying to extend my OCIs to a nice, safe interval as per UOA and you're going the other way? Any particular reason for it? Any evidence that shows lengthy OCIs to be bad for the engine?

 

[ltslimjim]

There is no one size fits all, each one must make his or her educated guess, in the end, regarding each app. As I stated earlier, this oil is shot. If it were me and it was MY car, the OP's setup here would have me changing this same oil at around 13,000. It's a comfort zone for me, and my car. Thank you.

 

[Cyclops]

Originally Posted By: chubbs1
Thanks for the UOA, I don't think you could get much better. I wouldn't switch either, you have a trend going and it is good. This was max though. Tan is hard on this type of oil though. Esters start out with higher acid #'s than petrol oil in general.

The TBN is your guide with this oil IMO. You have hit your max, but it is doing beautifully.


Thanks Chubbs. I researched Esters and TAN with a simple, not intensive, google search. Lots of information on this site and others. You were right, TAN is not a reliable measurement with esters.


Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: Cyclops
I also put a larger then stock oil filter and compared results with previous microgreen and K&N filter. The larger filter has given better filtering


Or lower wear. To know for sure, one would have to analyze oil AND filter.


You'll have to write slower for me FJ. I don't understand what you're telling me?

Originally Posted By: Ringo
Did you observe any MPG improvement
using the 0w20 ?


Yes, fuel mileage did rise a slight amount but then I had to get new tires and ... it lowered. Urghh!

Anyway, I'm not seeing the depletion that some are indicating. To me, the oil analysis has proven adequate sustainability for 15k miles and even shows promise for an extension to 16k. However, 15k looks to be a safe limit for maintaining this oil integrity in this engine and driving routine. I'm currently running an identical oil and plan to follow the same routine. The second analysis should validate or condemn this opinion.

I also don't infer much negativity with the viscosity increase. While this would be a concern, change in this sample is not significant. In fact, delta shows identical increase with the two previous analysis with only 12k on the 5w20 RL version. Unless I'm missing something, I just don't see the uptick being an issue with this report?

Doug

 

[panthermike]

I would love to run extended OCI's in the Corolla w/ RL, but am also wondering about ZDDP levels.

How much is too much in a modern OBDII engine?

BTW, this UOA looks really good Cyclops!

 

[Cyclops]

I don't believe you can quantify a value that designates an oil as too concentrated for catalytic. Too much variability with engines and driving regimens. In regards to this engine, I have little concern of catalytic poisoning from RL's high zddp concentration. So far this engine hasn't burned any oil. I'm constantly checking but the oil level never drops, even with this 15,458mile interval. As the engine starts to wear and zddp begins to coat and passivates the catalyst ... I'm guessing it will be well-well beyond 100k miles.

Doug

 

[addyguy]

For 15k, I'd say it's an awesome UOA.

Redline doesn't 'read' like other oils at all - there is no engine damage being done here, and perhaps with a filter change and top-off, you could go longer.

Would it really accomplish anything? Not really, but Redline is almost an indestructible oil - a simple UOA like this doesn't tell you what this oil is actually capable of.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
For 15k, I'd say it's an awesome UOA.

Redline doesn't 'read' like other oils at all - there is no engine damage being done here, and perhaps with a filter change and top-off, you could go longer.



Well, given the cost of the oil filter he's using, it's not easy to figure out what makes more sense. He could try Microgreen's recommended approach, 30K on the oil on 3 filters, a qt of top up at each filter change; or 2 15K oci's oil and filter. The cost is really similar. Hard to say which would be better. I bet with 1 qt. top up at 10 and 20K and this oil filter, it would probably make it just fine. Then again, a cheaper GIII oil and P1 filter @ 10K may yield similar results at a much lower price.

 

[mtxjohn]

Wow, small world. Doug=Swiftbow from fuelly! I didnt think there were too many focus owners out there running redline. These dudes don't even know about your amazing 50MPG antics do they?
John

 

[Cyclops]

Hey John, I'm also swiftbow here but I forgot my password. I tried to get help with the mods but was ignored so created and defaulted to my ancient (pre www) compuserve user name.

Afraid the 50mpg trials have become incredibly difficult, even with using all the play and tricks with the ultra-gauge. The new tires have marred the efficiency. However, I have a sure fire plan to bring it all back. I bought some indexing washers for the sparkplugs and plan to try them this weekend. I'm sure I'll gain at least 10mpg ... (joking). While they're known to give mild performance increase, I'm curious how they might impact efficiency? We'll see if anything is gained.

And JOD, you are correct. It's doubtful that I'm gaining anything in terms of fiscal economics but this isn't the goal here. What I'm doing is playing and learning. It's costing a significant amount in oil, filters and analysis but the knowledge gained more then offsets the expense and by sharing on the forum with engaging, dynamic comments, further knowledge hopefully is being spread to all.

Doug

 

[Brons2]

All three of the Redline runs thickened out of grade.

That being said, the reports look very good. I would consider running RL 5w20 or 0w20 in my car as the oil cap is stamped 5w20 GF-3/SL, so apparently Kia doesn't have any issues with the higher ZDDP amounts

 

[mtxjohn]

Wow Doug you must be some sort of genius. I thought I knew enough about cars and engines..I googled "indexing spark plugs" I had no idea! How simple! Now this is going to make me insane attempting to see if all my spark plugs are pointed the right way. [censored] you Doug! [censored] you!

 

[Cyclops]

I don't know John, it might have influence on improving fuel efficiency but then, it could be a bust? I doubt it would cause a decrease but it will be interesting to try it.

Doug

 

[NYSteve]

Caterham has been saying that he believes that the Red Line 0w-20 has a HTHS of ~3.0, instead of the stated 2.7. I wonder if this is why it looks like it is thickening, but maybe isn't. Hopefully he'll chime in.

 

[CATERHAM]

What I find interesting is that RL publishes a KV100 of 8.2cSt for this oil although I haven't seen a VOA or UOA below 8.9cSt.

The following is busters UOA:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/2084640/

It is also interesting that there is virtually no difference in KV100 between RL 0W-20 and 5W-20; they're both 30wt oils.

The only reason I can see for why RL understates the viscosity values for it's 0W-20 is to further differentiate it from their 5W-20. Nevertheless, with a HTHS vis of 3.0cP vs 3.3cP for the 5W-20 it is still a significantly lighter oil and if it's VI is as high as they claim at 166 vs only 145 for the 5W-20 then it's start-up viscosity will be even more noticeably lighter.

The VII free RL 0W-20 has proven to be a shear proof oil. It would be ideally suitable for any application where a light 30wt is recommended. Unfortunately, while it may be RL's lightest street oil it is thicker than necessary for all 20wt applications.

 

[Colt45ws]

Originally Posted By: INDYMAC
I have some real (to me) concerns about people trying to do extended OCI's and verifying oil condition with simple Blackstone UOA's. Don't get me wrong, I have used Blackstone many times myself. But I understand the inadequacies of the basic with TBN report. For wear trending it works fine. But for oil condition and causes of abnormal wear, it becomes a guessing game. Ordering more testing from Blackstone is a must, or use a different lab that includes more oil condition testing.

Although wear indications and trends remain steady, the oil has thickened and it has more fuel dilution than Blackstone indicates. So with a relatively low TBN, I'd like to know what TAN, oxidation and nitration are to decide when this oil is truly unserviceable. Anytime there is thickening or shearing, a V40 cSt would be nice to have also.

This is only a recommendation, since you appear to be concerned about your investment enough to do a UOA. I'm just trying to point out that extended OCI's are a different animal than just following the manufacturer's recommended service schedule. IMO, getting more information is paramount to doing this safely, rather than getting a false sense of security from a simple Blackstone report.

+1. I would rather have seen a TAN rather than a PC. The PC is interesting, but the TAN would have told a better story on how the oil is holding up.
Also, as Indymac states, it has more fuel dilute than they indicate. Its probably closer to 2%.

 

[CATERHAM]

With a KV100 of 9.52cSt it would be very unlikely that this oil contains more fuel than the trace indicated.

 

[Colt45ws]

Oxidative thickening.

Im guessing as much as Blackstone is with that number. Blackstone reads every 20F below 385F as 1%. 385 is a little low for a synthetic, IMO, so I go by every 20F below 420F equaling 1% dilute.

 

[CATERHAM]

Oxidative thickening is certainly a possibility considering the mileage.
What the OP could do is email the UOA to Dave at RL for an accessment. I'm sure they would love to see the 3 consecutive RL UOA's.

 

[Cyclops]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Oxidative thickening is certainly a possibility considering the mileage.
What the OP could do is email the UOA to Dave at RL for an accessment. I'm sure they would love to see the 3 consecutive RL UOA's.


I'd be glad to. Would you happen to have an email address?

Doug

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: Cyclops
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Oxidative thickening is certainly a possibility considering the mileage.
What the OP could do is email the UOA to Dave at RL for an accessment. I'm sure they would love to see the 3 consecutive RL UOA's.


I'd be glad to. Would you happen to have an email address?

Doug


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