Have you ever tried a diesel oil, those would be able to handle the fuel dilution no?
Recent test data and presentations on Biosyn
- Thread starter RI_RS4
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Yes, two different Diesel oils have been tried. Castrol TXT 505 5W40, and Rotella T CJ4 10W30. RLI Biosyn outperforms both of them, and RLI Biosyn 5W40 SHP HD is a diesel oil formulation, by the way.
Originally Posted By: RI_RS4
Originally Posted By: moribundman
Originally Posted By: RI_RS4
I have no affiliation with Renewable Lubricants
[snip]
Obviously I cannot divulge any knowledge I have on the actual formulations
[snip]
I have other data that I am at liberty to release
If I work (am in contact with etc) so closely with people that they ask me not to spill any secrets (even though they may not ask me to sign an NDA), then I'd say I am very much affiliated with them, even if merely through a seemingly common interest.
Mori, that is ludicrous from a legal perspective. As a consultant I work with dozens of large and small companies every year. I have contracts with those companies, confidentiality agreements, non-disclosure agreements, and consulting agreements with them. I have access to extremely sensitive information from a large number of sources, and have a responsibility to keep the information I have confidential. However, I have no affiliation with those companies. I have a professional business relationship. There is a considerable difference. An affiliation is another term for a legal partnership.
Yes, that really is quite ludicrous. I, too, have agreements (some written, some not) with various entities precluding me from disclosing information despite having no affiliation with those entities.
Originally Posted By: moribundman
Originally Posted By: RI_RS4
I have no affiliation with Renewable Lubricants
[snip]
Obviously I cannot divulge any knowledge I have on the actual formulations
[snip]
I have other data that I am at liberty to release
If I work (am in contact with etc) so closely with people that they ask me not to spill any secrets (even though they may not ask me to sign an NDA), then I'd say I am very much affiliated with them, even if merely through a seemingly common interest.
Mori, that is ludicrous from a legal perspective. As a consultant I work with dozens of large and small companies every year. I have contracts with those companies, confidentiality agreements, non-disclosure agreements, and consulting agreements with them. I have access to extremely sensitive information from a large number of sources, and have a responsibility to keep the information I have confidential. However, I have no affiliation with those companies. I have a professional business relationship. There is a considerable difference. An affiliation is another term for a legal partnership.
Yes, that really is quite ludicrous. I, too, have agreements (some written, some not) with various entities precluding me from disclosing information despite having no affiliation with those entities.
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Originally Posted By: RI_RS4
An affiliation is another term for a legal partnership.
So we are talking semantics now? Let's talk only in legal terms, shall we? Will any lawyer assist me, please?
An affiliation is another term for a legal partnership.
So we are talking semantics now? Let's talk only in legal terms, shall we? Will any lawyer assist me, please?
That's just not true, Shannow. I, for example, have specific knowledge of certain of the RLI formulations that I was not involved in the development of in any way whatsoever.
I am working with formulators on a custom formulation for our fleet, however, in which I would naturally be closely involved development-wise.
In both cases, I have agreed to not disclose information.
I am working with formulators on a custom formulation for our fleet, however, in which I would naturally be closely involved development-wise.
In both cases, I have agreed to not disclose information.
affiliation - a social or business relationship
affiliation - To become closely connected or associated
I become affiliated with many many companies through the course of a year when developing new projects, completing projects, coming up with maintenance strategies etc.
Don't receive a cent from them, and am personally not in contract.
affiliation - To become closely connected or associated
I become affiliated with many many companies through the course of a year when developing new projects, completing projects, coming up with maintenance strategies etc.
Don't receive a cent from them, and am personally not in contract.
On a different note, the TEOST testing reported here was performed at Southwest Research Lab. I was mistaken when I said it was done at Chevron Phillips.
Originally Posted By: bulwnkl
....
I have seen people on here make what appears to me to be a fairly concerted effort to pooh-pooh the Bio-Syn. ....
Now that people are starting to question the corn based ethanol boondoggle, this makes less sense than ever. Maybe you can lace soybean oil with enough antioxidents to keep it from polymerizing for a while. I still don't think an inherently unstable material is a good starting point for motor oil. Certainly nothing you would ever want to use in an extended OCI.
I am not part of big oil or in cahoots with anybody else here.
....
I have seen people on here make what appears to me to be a fairly concerted effort to pooh-pooh the Bio-Syn. ....
Now that people are starting to question the corn based ethanol boondoggle, this makes less sense than ever. Maybe you can lace soybean oil with enough antioxidents to keep it from polymerizing for a while. I still don't think an inherently unstable material is a good starting point for motor oil. Certainly nothing you would ever want to use in an extended OCI.
I am not part of big oil or in cahoots with anybody else here.
I understand your logic labman, but I would argue that all base oils have their pro's and con's. No single base oil is superior overall with the current additive technology. Through a careful balancing act with good additives and base oils is how good oils are made.
Bio esters have some very good qualities as you can see from the papers RI provided and if they can be incorporated into synthetic motor oils, I think it's a good thing. Some of these would be higher solvency, flash point and natural lubricity.
Bio esters have some very good qualities as you can see from the papers RI provided and if they can be incorporated into synthetic motor oils, I think it's a good thing. Some of these would be higher solvency, flash point and natural lubricity.
Originally Posted By: labman
Originally Posted By: bulwnkl
....
I have seen people on here make what appears to me to be a fairly concerted effort to pooh-pooh the Bio-Syn. ....
Now that people are starting to question the corn based ethanol boondoggle, this makes less sense than ever. Maybe you can lace soybean oil with enough antioxidents to keep it from polymerizing for a while. I still don't think an inherently unstable material is a good starting point for motor oil. Certainly nothing you would ever want to use in an extended OCI.
I am not part of big oil or in cahoots with anybody else here.
labman, if you truly are, I'd recommend looking at the science.
Oxidative stability for vegetable oil is obtained in two ways. First by genetic engineering of the crops.
Quote:
Vegetable oils are mainly consumed in foods. However, they also serve as the primary
feedstock for the oleochemical industry and are gaining popularity as lubricating base oils.
Vegetable oils are obtained from renewable resources and are biodegradable. Thus, they
offer specific environmental benefits over mineral oil-based lubricants. In addition to
environmental benefits, vegetable oils also have certain performance advantages over
conventional mineral oil base stocks. These include low volatility, high flash points,
viscosity index, and excellent lubricity. The primary drawback of conventional vegetable
oils is their lower oxidative stability relative to mineral oils and certain synthetic esters.
However, with recent advances in breeding technology, it is now possible to alter the
physical properties of conventional vegetable oils by changing fatty acid profiles. A
specific example pertaining to lubricant applications is the improvement of oxidative
stability by increasing the oleic content in various oils.
Second, with stabilizing additives:
Quote:
During this R&D program, many years of studies were conducted with many different
additives. It was discovered that the patented anti-oxidant chemistry (identified in patents
#1, #2, and #3) reduced oil thickening and deposits significantly in vegetable base oils at
extreme high temperatures over 1500 to 250 0 C, where most other known additives will
dissipate. Examples of areas that the chemistry would show the vegetable base lubricants
increased performance is in the high temperature and close tolerance areas of the top ring
of a combustible engine, turbine bearings, or a hydraulic shifting valve operating close to a
heated injection unit. Other areas would include high temperature areas in need of
increased fire safety as in casting and steel mills etc. XXX’s technology with HOBS have
shown exceptional performance in high performance racing engines, and when combined
with other proprietary additives, develops an increased synergistic effect in anti-oxidant
and anti-wear performance.
Quote:
1.3.1 Patents:
#1 U.S. Patent 5,736,493 (plus world wide patents filed)
Biodegradable Lubricant Composition From Triglycerides and Oil Soluble
Copper
#2 U.S. Patent 5,863,872-continuation to #1
Biodegradable Lubricant Composition From Triglycerides and Oil Soluble
Copper
#3 U.S. Patent 5,990,055
Biodegradable Lubricant Composition From Triglycerides and Oil Soluble
Antimony
#4 U.S. Patent 6,383,992 (plus world wide patents filed PCT)
Biodegradable Lubricant Composition - From Triglycerides, Pour Point
Depressants, and Antioxidants
#5 U.S. Patent 6,624,124 (plus world wide patents filed)
Biodegradable Penetrating Lubricant
#6 U.S. Patent 6,534,454 (plus world wide patents filed PCT)
Biodegradable Lubricant Composition - From Triglycerides, Pour Point
Depressants, and Antioxidants- continuation to #4
#7 U.S. Patent 6,620,772 (plus world wide patents filed PCT)
Biodegradable Penetrating Lubricant- continuation to #5
#8 Improved Food-Grade Lubricant (Patent Pending and PCT filed)
#9 Vegetable Oil Lubricant Comprising Synthetic Oil
(Patent Pending and PCT filed)
#10 High Temp Biobased Lubricant Compositions from Boron Nitride
(Patent Pending and PCT filed)
#11 Vegetable Oil Lubricant Comprising Synthetic Oil
(Patent Pending and PCT filed) - continuation to #9
Originally Posted By: bulwnkl
....
I have seen people on here make what appears to me to be a fairly concerted effort to pooh-pooh the Bio-Syn. ....
Now that people are starting to question the corn based ethanol boondoggle, this makes less sense than ever. Maybe you can lace soybean oil with enough antioxidents to keep it from polymerizing for a while. I still don't think an inherently unstable material is a good starting point for motor oil. Certainly nothing you would ever want to use in an extended OCI.
I am not part of big oil or in cahoots with anybody else here.
labman, if you truly are, I'd recommend looking at the science.
Oxidative stability for vegetable oil is obtained in two ways. First by genetic engineering of the crops.
Quote:
Vegetable oils are mainly consumed in foods. However, they also serve as the primary
feedstock for the oleochemical industry and are gaining popularity as lubricating base oils.
Vegetable oils are obtained from renewable resources and are biodegradable. Thus, they
offer specific environmental benefits over mineral oil-based lubricants. In addition to
environmental benefits, vegetable oils also have certain performance advantages over
conventional mineral oil base stocks. These include low volatility, high flash points,
viscosity index, and excellent lubricity. The primary drawback of conventional vegetable
oils is their lower oxidative stability relative to mineral oils and certain synthetic esters.
However, with recent advances in breeding technology, it is now possible to alter the
physical properties of conventional vegetable oils by changing fatty acid profiles. A
specific example pertaining to lubricant applications is the improvement of oxidative
stability by increasing the oleic content in various oils.
Second, with stabilizing additives:
Quote:
During this R&D program, many years of studies were conducted with many different
additives. It was discovered that the patented anti-oxidant chemistry (identified in patents
#1, #2, and #3) reduced oil thickening and deposits significantly in vegetable base oils at
extreme high temperatures over 1500 to 250 0 C, where most other known additives will
dissipate. Examples of areas that the chemistry would show the vegetable base lubricants
increased performance is in the high temperature and close tolerance areas of the top ring
of a combustible engine, turbine bearings, or a hydraulic shifting valve operating close to a
heated injection unit. Other areas would include high temperature areas in need of
increased fire safety as in casting and steel mills etc. XXX’s technology with HOBS have
shown exceptional performance in high performance racing engines, and when combined
with other proprietary additives, develops an increased synergistic effect in anti-oxidant
and anti-wear performance.
Quote:
1.3.1 Patents:
#1 U.S. Patent 5,736,493 (plus world wide patents filed)
Biodegradable Lubricant Composition From Triglycerides and Oil Soluble
Copper
#2 U.S. Patent 5,863,872-continuation to #1
Biodegradable Lubricant Composition From Triglycerides and Oil Soluble
Copper
#3 U.S. Patent 5,990,055
Biodegradable Lubricant Composition From Triglycerides and Oil Soluble
Antimony
#4 U.S. Patent 6,383,992 (plus world wide patents filed PCT)
Biodegradable Lubricant Composition - From Triglycerides, Pour Point
Depressants, and Antioxidants
#5 U.S. Patent 6,624,124 (plus world wide patents filed)
Biodegradable Penetrating Lubricant
#6 U.S. Patent 6,534,454 (plus world wide patents filed PCT)
Biodegradable Lubricant Composition - From Triglycerides, Pour Point
Depressants, and Antioxidants- continuation to #4
#7 U.S. Patent 6,620,772 (plus world wide patents filed PCT)
Biodegradable Penetrating Lubricant- continuation to #5
#8 Improved Food-Grade Lubricant (Patent Pending and PCT filed)
#9 Vegetable Oil Lubricant Comprising Synthetic Oil
(Patent Pending and PCT filed)
#10 High Temp Biobased Lubricant Compositions from Boron Nitride
(Patent Pending and PCT filed)
#11 Vegetable Oil Lubricant Comprising Synthetic Oil
(Patent Pending and PCT filed) - continuation to #9
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2003
- Messages
- 23,591
Originally Posted By: Shannow
affiliation - a social or business relationship
affiliation - To become closely connected or associated
I become affiliated with many many companies through the course of a year when developing new projects, completing projects, coming up with maintenance strategies etc.
Don't receive a cent from them, and am personally not in contract.
Exactly.
People who insist on using legal definitions surely must have good reason to do so.
What's that people say about walking and quacking ducks? I sure hear a lot of quacking!
affiliation - a social or business relationship
affiliation - To become closely connected or associated
I become affiliated with many many companies through the course of a year when developing new projects, completing projects, coming up with maintenance strategies etc.
Don't receive a cent from them, and am personally not in contract.
Exactly.
People who insist on using legal definitions surely must have good reason to do so.
What's that people say about walking and quacking ducks? I sure hear a lot of quacking!
So Mori, what is your issue? Clearly the moderator and owner of this website currently have no issues with me or my postings? What issue do you have, or are you just trying to distract from the intent of this thread?
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