Reason NOT to use Amsoil

[demarpaint]

A question, and nothing more. If a rep gives bad advise, suggests the wrong oil, or the wrong interval, going outside of the scope of what Amsoil recommends, can the dealer be held liable? Reason I ask is a buddy has me reading an Amsoil thread on the other site, and the Amsoil rep states he is running oil in a Ford Motorhome 5 times longer than what Ford suggests, or something along those lines. That is flat out wrong, and if someone had a problem going by his advise I would think he could be held liable. Certainly Amsoil can't be held responsible.

Again just asking a question.

Thanks

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
A question, and nothing more. If a rep gives bad advise, suggests the wrong oil, or the wrong interval, going outside of the scope of what Amsoil recommends, can the dealer be held liable? Reason I ask is a buddy has me reading an Amsoil thread on the other site, and the Amsoil rep states he is running oil in a Ford Motorhome 5 times longer than what Ford suggests, or something along those lines. That is flat out wrong, and if someone had a problem going by his advise I would think he could be held liable. Certainly Amsoil can't be held responsible.

Again just asking a question.

Thanks


If a dealer recommends something not recommended by Amsoil, he is on his own. In your example, what does Amsoil recommend? How do you know it's wrong? BTW Just by merely running something outside Amsoil's recommended parameters is not the same as telling someone to do something.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: sbergman27
do Amsoil's non-XL oils even look like they would meet the Phosphorus and Zinc requirements that the auto industry just recently threatened to withdraw support for API (as opposed to ILSAC) certifications over?

-Steve


Not only do they look like it, they DO meet the P and Zn limits when claiming SM compliance.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
A question, and nothing more. If a rep gives bad advise, suggests the wrong oil, or the wrong interval, going outside of the scope of what Amsoil recommends, can the dealer be held liable? Reason I ask is a buddy has me reading an Amsoil thread on the other site, and the Amsoil rep states he is running oil in a Ford Motorhome 5 times longer than what Ford suggests, or something along those lines. That is flat out wrong, and if someone had a problem going by his advise I would think he could be held liable. Certainly Amsoil can't be held responsible.

Again just asking a question.

Thanks


If a dealer recommends something not recommended by Amsoil, he is on his own. In your example, what does Amsoil recommend? How do you know it's wrong? BTW Just by merely running something outside Amsoil's recommended parameters is not the same as telling someone to do something.


Honestly I'm not sure what Amsoil recommends in that example. I was getting sick and almost puked reading that thread. While it was entertaining at times it was sickening at others. I guess my point is if a rep gives bad advise he's on his own.

 

[Cup of Joe]

Originally Posted By: Mokanic
After 20 years of working in the shops of new car dealers I KNOW they are familiar with the MM act. NEVER,and I repeat, NEVER when an engine failure under warranty in the shop did anyone up the ladder ask,"I wonder if this cutomer used an API certified oil." It just ain't happened. All they concern them selves with is whether there is enough evidence in the engine to indicate if that the customer neglected to perform the minimum maintenance to keep the motor alive. Someone has an axe to grind with Amsoil. Plain and simple. Amsoil,Schaeffer,Royal Purple,Redline,and even Crisco do way more testing and evaluating of their oils than the API ever would. Some of the sorriest oils known to man were sold with the little star on the bottle.


My personal experience.

Me: Car go boom!

Service manager: Well take a look. Here's a free loaner while your car is out of commission.

Later on the phone Service manager: you have a bad piston and that is why it only lasted 1 year and 19k miles. We are pulling it and sending it to the manufacture it will take roughly 2 weeks (in the end) to replace just the short block. Enjoy that loaner its on the manufacturer.

2nd go round.

Me: Car go boom! Again!!!

Service manager: Well take a look. Here's a free loaner while your car is out of commission.

Later on the phone Service manager: you need another new engine (this time long block) at least you got a bit more then 1 year and 25k miles this time. We are pulling it and sending it to the manufacture it will take roughly 2 weeks (in the end) to replace the long block. Enjoy that loaner its on the manufacturer. When we pulled the valve cover and the engine was clean there is no question it is not lubricant related.

I was never asked for proof of anything oil change related either time. As long as the engine was clean under the valve covers oil changes or the oil used was not important what so ever. I was using Pennzoil primarily at that time. On the 2nd engine I had used M1 0w30 and GC 0w30 was in the sump when it let go.

They may have initially ruled it was not lubricant related but 2 years after my 2nd engine went the manufacturer changed the viscosity requirements for all vehicles using their 3.5L V6. It went from 30 weights to 40's and even 50 weight as the prefered choices.

 

[daves87rs]

Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
Originally Posted By: daves87rs
The biggest concern would be the oil filter,


Can you elaborate? Do after market filters raise eyebrows in the service dep't of the dealership?



Simply put, I don't think most oil filters can handle a long OCI. Toyota may want 10k OCs, and we know the oil should hold one. But will the filter, under ALL forms of driving, hold up as well?


Even with a well biult filter, I've have a hard time pushing it past 7.5k. Granted, I have cartridge filters in my cars...

 

[daves87rs]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: sbergman27
do Amsoil's non-XL oils even look like they would meet the Phosphorus and Zinc requirements that the auto industry just recently threatened to withdraw support for API (as opposed to ILSAC) certifications over?

-Steve


Not only do they look like it, they DO meet the P and Zn limits when claiming SM compliance.


+1

 

[daves87rs]

Originally Posted By: Spector
This thread really is rediculous. use whatever makes you sleep at night. Myself, I Have used Amsoil since 1990 or so with OCI of 7500 to 12,000 depending on the circumstances. I still use it but not in all my vehicles due to cost and extended OCI or Amsoil is not practical in a leaker etc. I use some others synthetics on sale. But, after all these years of use, Some real UOA dogs for years, where the UOA and even Terry predicted future problems, the engines never failed. As a result I have finally come full circle and believe about any oil will do the job, I prefer synthetics, no longer bother with UOA (IMO useless for the average driver) and I have given up trying to discuss OCI with most people. I find that most people are cemented in their beliefs, ( IE: Deceased spouse or ex always changed it at 3000 and I am continuing this etc.) So, just let everyone choose their sleeping aid. As to whether to use Amsoil or any synthetic or go beyond what the OLM says is ones choice. looking for the motive is a true waste of time.

Oh, when I have purchased new cars they were switched to Amsoil (not the XL Series) after the first change and I never looked back. Basically anyone that does their own oil changes will have difficulty proving the maintenance was done. I mean really, so you purchased 5 quarts and a filter, who is to say you actually changed it when you said you did????????????



I have to agree with spector on this.


If you are so afraid of a little risk, then DO NOT use the oil. Problem solved. People who don't know much about the car/oil in general shouldn't use stuff like Amsoil anyways. I'm not afraid, and have no problem dropping it into a new car.
The only reason I haven't tried AMsoil is due to the just cost, nothing else. But since I'm only changing it twice on the cav now, that may just change.


After reading the [censored] on this thread, it's really tempting to run it now...

 

[c3po]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
As a dealer, we are not liable in any way for using Amsoil's marketing material, nor are we liable if there is some kind of manufacturing issue with the lubricants.


Pablo, I just want to thank you for answering our questions in this HOT THREAD.

If I buy Amsoil Motor Oil from a Dealer like yourself and decide to do a 1 year or 25,000 mile OCI with Amsoil and I have a problem that they say is the Lubricants fault I would hope that my Amsoil Dealer would not let me hang out to dry and would go above and beyond to help me out.

Originally Posted By: Pablo
In 12 years, I've never had a warranty claim.


That's in the past, you never know what might happen in the future.

Quote:
The dealer can help as much as possible, just as I have helped with any issues over the years.


This does not sound like a CONCRETE STATEMENT, I am sure you have helped with some simple issues. Do you have any knowledge of a Warranty Claim with Amsoil Motor Oil being the problem or the problem being a Manufacturing Defect, and how long did it take to get RESOLVED.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: c3po


This does not sound like a CONCRETE STATEMENT, I am sure you have helped with some simple issues. Do you have any knowledge of a Warranty Claim with Amsoil Motor Oil being the problem or the problem being a Manufacturing Defect, and how long did it take to get RESOLVED.


No sorry I have no direct/indirect knowledge of claims. I know quite a few dealers, and no one has told me any interesting stories.

 

[daves87rs]

I would think that it would depend on what happen....

 

[c3po]

Originally Posted By: Pablo

No sorry I have no direct/indirect knowledge of claims. I know quite a few dealers, and no one has told me any interesting stories.


I must say you seem more honest and forthcoming than the Amsoil Dealer that is TROLLING in the Redline Thread on the other board, I will not mention the board, but I think you know which one I am talking about.

 

[demarpaint]

No dealers ever have records of failures. No salesman will admit knowing of a product failure, he makes a living off the product. Lets get real. They might talk about some minor issues, but never a real problem. Read through any of these boards, and see for yourself.

 

[BobFout]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
No dealers ever have records of failures. No salesman will admit knowing of a product failure, he makes a living off the product. Lets get real. They might talk about some minor issues, but never a real problem. Read through any of these boards, and see for yourself.


The same thing is true of Mobil 1. When's the last time you heard of an oil related issue with Mobil 1, Shell, et al. Why is it so hard to believe that all quality oils used in the correct application and manner will protect an engine?

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
No dealers ever have records of failures. No salesman will admit knowing of a product failure, he makes a living off the product. Lets get real. They might talk about some minor issues, but never a real problem. Read through any of these boards, and see for yourself.


So now I'm lying?

It's real, let's keep it real - read through the boards - how many Amsoil failures are posted on an oil board?

I put up with people calling me names, calling me a liar, saying my customers are lemmings......bah....some of you guys just plain have your own bias, and only pretend you are neutral.

 

[daves87rs]

This thread is pretty much toast....

 

[Gary Allan]

Oh, gosh. I steered clear of this thread since I knew it would be some type of witch hunt. I feel bad for Pablo being the one taking it on the chin.

Warranty fear. That would be something someone would USE in an argument AGAINST Amsoil products. It's speculation first and foremost ..and the most obscure event in terms of possibilities.

It's like that totally odd "make sure you have clean underwear on in case you have an accident and need to go to the ER" silliness.

Better get a titanium shield put in the roof liner in case you experience a meteor shower.

btw- you can figure due to the filter recalls for redesign and the TSB's wording ..that they have INDEED paid claims and found themselves AT FAULT for engine damage.

Are they going to make this process "easy". No. If it was then people would be buying Amsoil just to get a new engine when theirs was about to give up the ghost. It will involve, just as a factory rep does, some verification/investigation process before the $$$ are released.


Does anyone who uses M1 over the OEM drain recommendation (there's only ONE M1 product that promotes this - the EP line) have or is warned about some warranty fear factor? Not much by my barometer.

..but say "Amsoil", and it's the first thing every critter that comes out of the woodwork says that you should consider when using it as directed.

 

[c3po]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Oh, gosh. I steered clear of this thread since I knew it would be some type of witch hunt.


You are in it now.

Quote:
I feel bad for Pablo being the one taking it on the chin.


He's doing good in this THREAD.

Quote:
Are they going to make this process "easy". No.


I like that answer since another Amsoil Rep on another board basically said the process would be easy.

Quote:
It will involve, just as a factory rep does, some verification/investigation process before the $$$ are released.


It seems you have also read the Amsoil Warranty.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
I like that answer since another Amsoil Rep on another board basically said the process would be easy.


The process is simple assuming all of your ducks are in a row. As with regular OEM warranties there are those who attempt to scam the dealer ..PLUS the dealer service manager is always a weasel when it comes to "no cut" warranty work.

As I said, otherwise some Lexus owner would get told by the Lexus dealer that their sludged engine wasn't a warranty issue and they'll need to fork out $7000 before the lease end ...and the owner would go and put Amsoil in the thing and wait for it to grenade.


There could also be issues that, while not Amsoil's responsibility, are related to the oil. Let's say my one Lumina owner didn't agree to UOA when I put SSO in it? If the LIM gasket issue was VERY SEVERE and the engine grenaded, would Amsoil have any responsibility for the repair? Nope. Might the owner THINK that Amsoil screwed them? Maybe. Which would be the truth?

 

[c3po]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan

The process is simple assuming all of your ducks are in a row


How long can this process take, we have to assume that Amsoil would need to get an Oil Sample, and if it were Amsoil's fault, meaning the oil, they would contact the insurance company they have, they would do an investigation.

Gary, Pablo has stated that in his 12 years of being an Amsoil Salesman he has not seen or heard of any Warranty Claims, and since you have only been an Amsoil Dealer for a few years it is safe to say that you have not heard of any Warranty Claims and if that is the case then any answer you would give me on how long the process would take would be a guess.

I am sure that every Warranty Claim is different so if that is the case it may be hard to put a time frame on how long the process would take.