Reading stuck 75k NGK Iridium plugs in 3.0 V6 Honda.

[Gasbuggy]

These were installed by a trusted friend/mechanic at his shop during the first timing belt replacement. Almost every plug was welded in, tight coming out the entire way. I have changed plugs that have been in cars for 15+ years and 150,000 miles... This was my worst removal experience.
Soaking with PB Blaster and numerous tightens and loosens eventually got them out, took 24 hours of soaking with the spark plug a few turns out to remove 3 of the 6...

For the age they looked good in my opinion..

I coated them in a little anti seize and reinstalled, then ordered some NGK Platinums to replace. I didn't trust them after so much wrenching. Despite all that stuff I heard about nickel coated whatever, the platinum plug will give me a shorter lifespan with maybe a little extra power. I'd be glad to swap plugs every 30-40k and not ruin a head.

The platinums feel great, the off idle power picked up big time, enough I need to readjust my foot.

It's supposed to be easier to remove a spark plug from a aluminum head when the engine is hot so I did the re-removal hot and to my surprise 2 of the 6 plugs fought me coming out. One I had to again soak overnight.

The threads in the heads are fine. The new plugs went in so easy, I don't know what is up, unless these spark plugs have some how swollen like lug nuts.

The picture is the second removal, after they had anti seize applied. Prior the threads were brown. Like combustion maybe had packed into them. I ran a few on the wire wheel before reinstalling. One looks a little wet from the silicone spray.

 

[FowVay]

Is there any possibility that your trusted friend got counterfeit plugs when he did your timing belt replacement?

 

[Gasbuggy]

Is there any possibility that your trusted friend got counterfeit plugs when he did your timing belt replacement?

Very unlikely, they're a legit shop, nearly everything they order comes from Napa or CarQuest. Timing belt kit was Aisin. The taper on the tip looks like real NGK, the counterfeits used to not get that right.

 

[ZZman]

Did he install them with anti seize?

 

[JimPghPA]

If you call up NGK they will tell you where to look at on the sparkplug to identify whether it is a counterfeit or not.

 

[wlk]

I've always done aluminum heads cold never hot but maybe the Honda is different like the 2 part plug on some Ford's. Either way glad they came out as this is a reason I change no longer than 50k. I just don't want to chance them being stuck, I've had them come out tight and it is a frustrating feeling.

 

[KrisZ]

Thanks for posting. You did well in recognizing there was a problem and took your time with the removal. This simple maintenance could’ve turned into an expensive repair.

And no matter how many of stuck plugs, or very difficult to remove stories we have here, there is always a group that insists no antiseize is the correct way, always.

 

[JohnnyG]

A LOT of manufacturers recommend NOT using anti seize on spark plugs, especially in aluminum heads. Spark plugs should have a special coating applied at the factory to prevent seizing. Delco plugs do for sure, and have since at least when the Northstar engine was produced.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

I always use a small dab of anti-sieze. Maybe old school from issues but Dad had me do it when I helped him. Also only change when cold if possible. Colder = better so metal doesn't expand and make tighter.

 

[Hall]

Honda says to use anti-seize. All sorts of so-called "experts" on the internet will continue to scream "nooooooo anti-seize". I think you know what to do....

If you call up NGK they will tell you where to look at on the sparkplug to identify whether it is a counterfeit or not.

If I wanted to produce counterfeit plugs, guess what I'm going to do ?

 

[Trav]

The only reason manufacturers say not to use anti seize is one word "LIABILITY", nothing more. Just a couple of the threads on this..

Changing spark plugs - do I need Anti Seize?

They weren't worn. I reduced the gap from when I first installed them. And Hyundai has the wrong gap and Denso pre gaps them at the wrong gap.. They say .044 and you will blow the spark out with that. They have since reduced it to .032. I do know my spark plugs and ignition. Your responses make...

bobistheoilguy.com

Iridium plugs after 60,000 miles

My buddy pulled these spark plugs from his 5.3 liter Chev after 60,000 miles. They are AC Delco Iridiums. He wasn’t too versed on spark plugs and thought they were worn out, so he threw in a set of NGK conventional V power plugs because he was able to get them for $1.95 each. He had never seen...

bobistheoilguy.com

 

[Hall]

The only reason manufacturers say not to use anti seize is one word "LIABILITY", nothing more.

Honest question, how does liability factor in ?

 

[KrisZ]

Honest question, how does liability factor in ?

If they recommend adding a lubricant to the spark plug and the user ends up stripping the threads in the cylinder head because he didn’t reduce the torque, I can see them blaming the spark plug manufacturer.

 

[Trav]

I tried to answer that in the threads I posted links to. If you have any questions I will try to elaborate. Stripped threads are only one part of the possible liability.

 

[Trav]

These were installed by a trusted friend/mechanic at his shop during the first timing belt replacement. Almost every plug was welded in, tight coming out the entire way. I have changed plugs that have been in cars for 15+ years and 150,000 miles... This was my worst removal experience.
Soaking with PB Blaster and numerous tightens and loosens eventually got them out, took 24 hours of soaking with the spark plug a few turns out to remove 3 of the 6...

For the age they looked good in my opinion..

I coated them in a little anti seize and reinstalled, then ordered some NGK Platinums to replace. I didn't trust them after so much wrenching. Despite all that stuff I heard about nickel coated whatever, the platinum plug will give me a shorter lifespan with maybe a little extra power. I'd be glad to swap plugs every 30-40k and not ruin a head.

The platinums feel great, the off idle power picked up big time, enough I need to readjust my foot.

It's supposed to be easier to remove a spark plug from a aluminum head when the engine is hot so I did the re-removal hot and to my surprise 2 of the 6 plugs fought me coming out. One I had to again soak overnight.

The threads in the heads are fine. The new plugs went in so easy, I don't know what is up, unless these spark plugs have some how swollen like lug nuts.

The picture is the second removal, after they had anti seize applied. Prior the threads were brown. Like combustion maybe had packed into them. I ran a few on the wire wheel before reinstalling. One looks a little wet from the silicone spray.

View attachment 215119

This can and does happen frequently in vehicles operated in colder winter climates especially when short tripped. Some engines are more susceptible than others but it can happen to any engine operated under those conditions. You see white smoke (actually steam) coming out of the exhaust on a cold start, that is moisture entering the engine, it and any carbon it may loosen creeps up the plug threads from inside the combustion chamber, even though the plug is sealed in head using a gasket or tapered seat the threads are fully exposed inside.

If a the car sees many short trips where the engine just or just barely reaches operating temperature this can happen every time the engine runs, it will eventually seize the plugs regardless of plating. The plating helps in most cases at preventing a full blown seize but does not totally prevent it. Going back some years the Euro Ford Kent engines were so bad the head would have to be removed to get the seized plug out, they was so bad decent dealers would proactively R&R the plugs on new cars and coat the plugs with anti seize.
Reduce the torque by 20-25%, use only a small amount on the threads only and you will never have this problem.

 

[Gasbuggy]

Did he install them with anti seize?

I highly doubt it.

I've always done aluminum heads cold never hot but maybe the Honda is different like the 2 part plug on some Ford's. Either way glad they came out as this is a reason I change no longer than 50k. I just don't want to chance them being stuck, I've had them come out tight and it is a frustrating feeling.

They are supposed to be installed cold. If they're stuck, removing them hot is supposed to be easier.

This can and does happen frequently in vehicles operated in colder winter climates especially when short tripped. Some engines are more susceptible than others but it can happen to any engine operated under those conditions. You see white smoke (actually steam) coming out of the exhaust on a cold start, that is moisture entering the engine, it and any carbon it may loosen creeps up the plug threads from inside the combustion chamber, even though the plug is sealed in head using a gasket or tapered seat the threads are fully exposed inside.

If a the car sees many short trips where the engine just or just barely reaches operating temperature this can happen every time the engine runs, it will eventually seize the plugs regardless of plating. The plating helps in most cases at preventing a full blown seize but does not totally prevent it. Going back some years the Euro Ford Kent engines were so bad the head would have to be removed to get the seized plug out, they was so bad decent dealers would proactively R&R the plugs on new cars and coat the plugs with anti seize.
Reduce the torque by 20-25%, use only a small amount on the threads only and you will never have this problem.

Now, that is real a possibility. Barely getting to operating temp is not frequent but happens often enough.


Thanks for the input everyone

 

[someonesomewhere]

"" They are supposed to be installed cold. If they're stuck, removing them hot is supposed to be easier.""

That's just bad advice, and a great way to strip a plug hole or 3. Cold install, cold removal. Always, when dealing with aluminum and dissimilar metals, even normal bolts. Maybe add some very precise heat via torch if needed, but do not warm the motor up. Literally playing with fire. Haha.

 

[dumkid]

so... ive had plugs come out really easy with and without antisieze, and ive had plugs stick with and without anti sieze. the dry plugs came out fine once you broke them loose, the anti sieze plugs fought you all the way if they got stuck but they were easier to break loose than the dry plugs that stuck.

 

[Gasbuggy]

"" They are supposed to be installed cold. If they're stuck, removing them hot is supposed to be easier.""

That's just bad advice, and a great way to strip a plug hole or 3. Cold install, cold removal. Always, when dealing with aluminum and dissimilar metals, even normal bolts. Maybe add some very precise heat via torch if needed, but do not warm the motor up. Literally playing with fire. Haha.

Cold removal was how they came out. Second time I attempted hot but the stuck ones stayed in until the next day.

 

[clinebarger]

"" They are supposed to be installed cold. If they're stuck, removing them hot is supposed to be easier.""

That's just bad advice, and a great way to strip a plug hole or 3. Cold install, cold removal. Always, when dealing with aluminum and dissimilar metals, even normal bolts. Maybe add some very precise heat via torch if needed, but do not warm the motor up. Literally playing with fire. Haha.

It's quite useful in practice, First design Ford 3V plugs are a perfect example, And even the 1 piece 2nd design can be a bear to remove without taking the engine for a hard run before attempting removal.