Considering getting a Ram 1500 with an eco diesel but have some concerns about all the new emissions equipment (who doesn't). I am not a fan of EGRs and I know the DPF will eventually become clogged. I'm curious if it is possible to delete the DPF & EGR while keeping the the SCR. As long as the DEF fluid doesn't crystalize, the SCR seems like a much better way to reduce NOx emissions vs feeding the engine it's own exhaust [censored]. Thoughts?
Ram Ecodiesel Emission Equipment
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Originally Posted By: supton
I'm guessing you like turbodiesels? I'd go find a dedicated forum for the Ecodiesel and see how they are doing.
What are the plans? Heavy towing, or just a truck that gets decent mpg?
Just to say I have a diesel truck. Ive always wanted a truck and I'm a diesel nerd (I like to be differen). The impulse decision is a diesel, the smart decision is to get a gasser.
I'm guessing you like turbodiesels? I'd go find a dedicated forum for the Ecodiesel and see how they are doing.
What are the plans? Heavy towing, or just a truck that gets decent mpg?
Just to say I have a diesel truck. Ive always wanted a truck and I'm a diesel nerd (I like to be differen). The impulse decision is a diesel, the smart decision is to get a gasser.
^When you go to the Ecodiesel forum, be sure you're sitting down! There have been a LOT of engine problems, some requiring complete engine replacement-to the point that FCA suddenly decided CJ-4 oil was the way to go, as opposed to what they recommended in the first place.
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I wouldn't buy one until they've been out for 3-4 years. Takes about that long for Chrysler to pull their heads out of their [censored] and fix the problems.
Yeah, Chrysler/Fiat stuff is garbage as I see brand new garbage they send us. You DO NOT NEED and DO NOT WANT a diesel TRUST ME
Go to green diesel engeneering they have a lot of choices
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
^When you go to the Ecodiesel forum, be sure you're sitting down! There have been a LOT of engine problems, some requiring complete engine replacement-to the point that FCA suddenly decided CJ-4 oil was the way to go, as opposed to what they recommended in the first place.
This. A cursory check shows that it's yet another junk FCA platform. If you like the linear power of a Diesel your best bet is an Ecoboost truck. If you just want dead simple reliable GM is your stop. Either of the 2 (Ford or GM) are much better choices in nearly every benchmark vs Ram. Unless you go 3/4 or 1 ton there is no need for a Diesel. The fuel economy benefits are negated by higher than premium Diesel prices in most parts of the USA + any maintenance issues that may come up. I can replace the HPFP for my Ecoboosts for $300 and the only part needed is the pump. What's a HPFP for a CRD go for?
^When you go to the Ecodiesel forum, be sure you're sitting down! There have been a LOT of engine problems, some requiring complete engine replacement-to the point that FCA suddenly decided CJ-4 oil was the way to go, as opposed to what they recommended in the first place.
This. A cursory check shows that it's yet another junk FCA platform. If you like the linear power of a Diesel your best bet is an Ecoboost truck. If you just want dead simple reliable GM is your stop. Either of the 2 (Ford or GM) are much better choices in nearly every benchmark vs Ram. Unless you go 3/4 or 1 ton there is no need for a Diesel. The fuel economy benefits are negated by higher than premium Diesel prices in most parts of the USA + any maintenance issues that may come up. I can replace the HPFP for my Ecoboosts for $300 and the only part needed is the pump. What's a HPFP for a CRD go for?
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Even if one goes to a 3/4 ton there is rarely need for diesel. Probably 2/3 to 3/4 of all 3/4 and 1 ton pickup sales are for commercial use, and a high percentage of those are gassers. With the current crop of diesels, one will never recover any initial cost difference over the life of the pickup. Sure, they get better fuel economy, but when you look at the price differences in many places, the cost per mile is almost identical. And that has not even factored in the maintenance issues with EGR, SCR, and DPF. Only if one has a definitive need, like heavy towing and even then on a frequent basis, does diesel work out in a practical way. I have no problem with using diesel in the right applications. I must, as I go thru about 20,000 gallons of diesel a year. But my 3/4 ton pickup is a gasser.
Brand politics aside. There really is no reason to purchase a diesel unless you like throwing away thousands of dollars. But again you are the consumer and if it makes you happier go for it.
Is this the same engine in grand Cherokee if so yea run.
The timing gear is held on by friction and with fuel pump off the cam. People have had engines jump timing which then destroys the engine.
The timing gear is held on by friction and with fuel pump off the cam. People have had engines jump timing which then destroys the engine.
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I appreciate all the feedback. Thank you for talking me out of this. I would probably drive the truck 15,000 miles or less a year and use it to tow an 18 foot bass boat to the lake a few times year. Looks like gas is the way to go.
I've pulled my old 29' cruiser with a weaker 5.4 V8 in a heavier vehicle.
Skip the diesel.
The modern gas engines will have you checking your mirrors to see if the boat is still behind you.
Skip the diesel.
The modern gas engines will have you checking your mirrors to see if the boat is still behind you.
If you do long trips the EGR and DPF will last a long time. If not I would think about getting a petrol job.
Some newer truck EGR's that are in the cooling system seem more problematic than older units which can easily do 100K km before a clean. The DPF systems that use a seperate cleaner fluid and injector are far better than those that just use extra fuel, as they don't contaminate the oil.
Gutting or removing emissions gear is an illegal act in most non third world countries, it also invalidates the insurance if you don't get an approval, which is only possible for track only use unless you are in Canada.
Nitrigen Dioxide (Removed by the EGR and CAT) kills about 40K people a year from cancer in the UK every year, so tampering with the emissions gear is an anti solcial act if you live or use your vehicle in a city.
Some newer truck EGR's that are in the cooling system seem more problematic than older units which can easily do 100K km before a clean. The DPF systems that use a seperate cleaner fluid and injector are far better than those that just use extra fuel, as they don't contaminate the oil.
Gutting or removing emissions gear is an illegal act in most non third world countries, it also invalidates the insurance if you don't get an approval, which is only possible for track only use unless you are in Canada.
Nitrigen Dioxide (Removed by the EGR and CAT) kills about 40K people a year from cancer in the UK every year, so tampering with the emissions gear is an anti solcial act if you live or use your vehicle in a city.
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
^When you go to the Ecodiesel forum, be sure you're sitting down! There have been a LOT of engine problems, some requiring complete engine replacement-to the point that FCA suddenly decided CJ-4 oil was the way to go, as opposed to what they recommended in the first place.
+1 I was considering a Grand Cherokee with the Eco Diesel. I did a lot of research and canned the idea. Between the engine issues, the timing gear/jumping problems, and the emissions system it was a big no for me. One thing I did observe, the people who are having the least amount of problems with them are the people that run them on long trips, they don't like to be driven on shorter runs.
Bottom line, read up on it, unless they've made some major changes I'd stay clear.
Tampering with the emissions system is a major no no, and can be difficult they way the engine is set up.
^When you go to the Ecodiesel forum, be sure you're sitting down! There have been a LOT of engine problems, some requiring complete engine replacement-to the point that FCA suddenly decided CJ-4 oil was the way to go, as opposed to what they recommended in the first place.
+1 I was considering a Grand Cherokee with the Eco Diesel. I did a lot of research and canned the idea. Between the engine issues, the timing gear/jumping problems, and the emissions system it was a big no for me. One thing I did observe, the people who are having the least amount of problems with them are the people that run them on long trips, they don't like to be driven on shorter runs.
Bottom line, read up on it, unless they've made some major changes I'd stay clear.
Tampering with the emissions system is a major no no, and can be difficult they way the engine is set up.
Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
If you do long trips the EGR and DPF will last a long time. If not I would think about getting a petrol job.
Some newer truck EGR's that are in the cooling system seem more problematic than older units which can easily do 100K km before a clean. The DPF systems that use a seperate cleaner fluid and injector are far better than those that just use extra fuel, as they don't contaminate the oil.
Gutting or removing emissions gear is an illegal act in most non third world countries, it also invalidates the insurance if you don't get an approval, which is only possible for track only use unless you are in Canada.
Nitrigen Dioxide (Removed by the EGR and CAT) kills about 40K people a year from cancer in the UK every year, so tampering with the emissions gear is an anti solcial act if you live or use your vehicle in a city.
I'm aware of he legalities regarding removal of emissions equipment. I live in a town of 12,000 and our cars Are not required to be emission tested. I understand that deleting the Egr increases NOx emissions, but this is why I was curious about leaving the SCR in place to help deal with that. I don't have a problem with the DPF until it clogs up, and then that would be deleted as well. My thought process is deleting the Egr will reduce soot because combustion will be more complete and this will help extend the life of the DPF
If you do long trips the EGR and DPF will last a long time. If not I would think about getting a petrol job.
Some newer truck EGR's that are in the cooling system seem more problematic than older units which can easily do 100K km before a clean. The DPF systems that use a seperate cleaner fluid and injector are far better than those that just use extra fuel, as they don't contaminate the oil.
Gutting or removing emissions gear is an illegal act in most non third world countries, it also invalidates the insurance if you don't get an approval, which is only possible for track only use unless you are in Canada.
Nitrigen Dioxide (Removed by the EGR and CAT) kills about 40K people a year from cancer in the UK every year, so tampering with the emissions gear is an anti solcial act if you live or use your vehicle in a city.
I'm aware of he legalities regarding removal of emissions equipment. I live in a town of 12,000 and our cars Are not required to be emission tested. I understand that deleting the Egr increases NOx emissions, but this is why I was curious about leaving the SCR in place to help deal with that. I don't have a problem with the DPF until it clogs up, and then that would be deleted as well. My thought process is deleting the Egr will reduce soot because combustion will be more complete and this will help extend the life of the DPF
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Originally Posted By: outoforder
Considering getting a Ram 1500 with an eco diesel but have some concerns about all the new emissions equipment (who doesn't). I am not a fan of EGRs and I know the DPF will eventually become clogged. I'm curious if it is possible to delete the DPF & EGR while keeping the the SCR. As long as the DEF fluid doesn't crystalize, the SCR seems like a much better way to reduce NOx emissions vs feeding the engine it's own exhaust [censored]. Thoughts?
Sure, feed the drivers behind with that [removed]!
Considering getting a Ram 1500 with an eco diesel but have some concerns about all the new emissions equipment (who doesn't). I am not a fan of EGRs and I know the DPF will eventually become clogged. I'm curious if it is possible to delete the DPF & EGR while keeping the the SCR. As long as the DEF fluid doesn't crystalize, the SCR seems like a much better way to reduce NOx emissions vs feeding the engine it's own exhaust [censored]. Thoughts?
Sure, feed the drivers behind with that [removed]!
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edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Originally Posted By: outoforder
Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
If you do long trips the EGR and DPF will last a long time. If not I would think about getting a petrol job.
Some newer truck EGR's that are in the cooling system seem more problematic than older units which can easily do 100K km before a clean. The DPF systems that use a seperate cleaner fluid and injector are far better than those that just use extra fuel, as they don't contaminate the oil.
Gutting or removing emissions gear is an illegal act in most non third world countries, it also invalidates the insurance if you don't get an approval, which is only possible for track only use unless you are in Canada.
Nitrigen Dioxide (Removed by the EGR and CAT) kills about 40K people a year from cancer in the UK every year, so tampering with the emissions gear is an anti solcial act if you live or use your vehicle in a city.
I'm aware of he legalities regarding removal of emissions equipment. I live in a town of 12,000 and our cars Are not required to be emission tested. I understand that deleting the Egr increases NOx emissions, but this is why I was curious about leaving the SCR in place to help deal with that. I don't have a problem with the DPF until it clogs up, and then that would be deleted as well. My thought process is deleting the Egr will reduce soot because combustion will be more complete and this will help extend the life of the DPF
Your thinking is based on wishful thinking. EGR recycles part of exhaust, with that part of soot. Soot of course is still present, and that is when DPF collects soot before whatever is left (NoX and other gases) enters SCR system where they are mixed with DEF. No EGR and no DPF, SCR will mix DEF with bunch of soot and drivers behind you will have "privilege" of breathing that.
EGR, DPF and SCR are not problem per se. Problems so far were in DEF tanks, metering valves.
If you get that engine, and want to avoid DPF issues using CJ-4 oils (which are borderline High-SAPS) use 5W40 ACEA C3 oils such as Motul X-Clean, Valvoline MST (I use that in summer), Pentosin HP II etc.
Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
If you do long trips the EGR and DPF will last a long time. If not I would think about getting a petrol job.
Some newer truck EGR's that are in the cooling system seem more problematic than older units which can easily do 100K km before a clean. The DPF systems that use a seperate cleaner fluid and injector are far better than those that just use extra fuel, as they don't contaminate the oil.
Gutting or removing emissions gear is an illegal act in most non third world countries, it also invalidates the insurance if you don't get an approval, which is only possible for track only use unless you are in Canada.
Nitrigen Dioxide (Removed by the EGR and CAT) kills about 40K people a year from cancer in the UK every year, so tampering with the emissions gear is an anti solcial act if you live or use your vehicle in a city.
I'm aware of he legalities regarding removal of emissions equipment. I live in a town of 12,000 and our cars Are not required to be emission tested. I understand that deleting the Egr increases NOx emissions, but this is why I was curious about leaving the SCR in place to help deal with that. I don't have a problem with the DPF until it clogs up, and then that would be deleted as well. My thought process is deleting the Egr will reduce soot because combustion will be more complete and this will help extend the life of the DPF
Your thinking is based on wishful thinking. EGR recycles part of exhaust, with that part of soot. Soot of course is still present, and that is when DPF collects soot before whatever is left (NoX and other gases) enters SCR system where they are mixed with DEF. No EGR and no DPF, SCR will mix DEF with bunch of soot and drivers behind you will have "privilege" of breathing that.
EGR, DPF and SCR are not problem per se. Problems so far were in DEF tanks, metering valves.
If you get that engine, and want to avoid DPF issues using CJ-4 oils (which are borderline High-SAPS) use 5W40 ACEA C3 oils such as Motul X-Clean, Valvoline MST (I use that in summer), Pentosin HP II etc.
Originally Posted By: outoforder
Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
If you do long trips the EGR and DPF will last a long time. If not I would think about getting a petrol job.
Some newer truck EGR's that are in the cooling system seem more problematic than older units which can easily do 100K km before a clean. The DPF systems that use a seperate cleaner fluid and injector are far better than those that just use extra fuel, as they don't contaminate the oil.
Gutting or removing emissions gear is an illegal act in most non third world countries, it also invalidates the insurance if you don't get an approval, which is only possible for track only use unless you are in Canada.
Nitrigen Dioxide (Removed by the EGR and CAT) kills about 40K people a year from cancer in the UK every year, so tampering with the emissions gear is an anti solcial act if you live or use your vehicle in a city.
I'm aware of he legalities regarding removal of emissions equipment. I live in a town of 12,000 and our cars Are not required to be emission tested. I understand that deleting the Egr increases NOx emissions, but this is why I was curious about leaving the SCR in place to help deal with that. I don't have a problem with the DPF until it clogs up, and then that would be deleted as well. My thought process is deleting the Egr will reduce soot because combustion will be more complete and this will help extend the life of the DPF
Ah, so you think it is OK to delete your emissions control gear just because you live in a place that has no type of safety and compliance inspections like the MOT in the UK or the TUV in Germany!
Deleting the EGR has no effect on engine wear IF you change the oil at a sensible interval. It does increase soot loading of the oil a fraction, BUT small Carbon particles do not cause an increase in engine wear, they are only an issue in terms of how long the oil lasts before the active detergent additives are used up.
If you have to suffer owning a vehicle with a DPF that restricts the oil type to low Zinc ash oils (The latest DPF systems do not need low ash oils) and want to reduce wear rates, do a few UOA's to see if either one of the expensive full synthetics that contains Titanium reduces the wear metals. Then try Liqui Moly Ceratec, which contains some Moly and a hexagonal form of Boron Nitride which forms a very hard ceramic layer. It might not work too well if you have a bypass filter unit, as the ultra fine filter might be capable of filtering it out. The 2 components are in suspension form.
Most cheaper DPF approved oils are a disaster area in wear terms, as there is no cheap alternative to Zinc, but a combination of extra Moly and BN does work wonders, but is too expensive for any engine oil companies to use at present.
Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
If you do long trips the EGR and DPF will last a long time. If not I would think about getting a petrol job.
Some newer truck EGR's that are in the cooling system seem more problematic than older units which can easily do 100K km before a clean. The DPF systems that use a seperate cleaner fluid and injector are far better than those that just use extra fuel, as they don't contaminate the oil.
Gutting or removing emissions gear is an illegal act in most non third world countries, it also invalidates the insurance if you don't get an approval, which is only possible for track only use unless you are in Canada.
Nitrigen Dioxide (Removed by the EGR and CAT) kills about 40K people a year from cancer in the UK every year, so tampering with the emissions gear is an anti solcial act if you live or use your vehicle in a city.
I'm aware of he legalities regarding removal of emissions equipment. I live in a town of 12,000 and our cars Are not required to be emission tested. I understand that deleting the Egr increases NOx emissions, but this is why I was curious about leaving the SCR in place to help deal with that. I don't have a problem with the DPF until it clogs up, and then that would be deleted as well. My thought process is deleting the Egr will reduce soot because combustion will be more complete and this will help extend the life of the DPF
Ah, so you think it is OK to delete your emissions control gear just because you live in a place that has no type of safety and compliance inspections like the MOT in the UK or the TUV in Germany!
Deleting the EGR has no effect on engine wear IF you change the oil at a sensible interval. It does increase soot loading of the oil a fraction, BUT small Carbon particles do not cause an increase in engine wear, they are only an issue in terms of how long the oil lasts before the active detergent additives are used up.
If you have to suffer owning a vehicle with a DPF that restricts the oil type to low Zinc ash oils (The latest DPF systems do not need low ash oils) and want to reduce wear rates, do a few UOA's to see if either one of the expensive full synthetics that contains Titanium reduces the wear metals. Then try Liqui Moly Ceratec, which contains some Moly and a hexagonal form of Boron Nitride which forms a very hard ceramic layer. It might not work too well if you have a bypass filter unit, as the ultra fine filter might be capable of filtering it out. The 2 components are in suspension form.
Most cheaper DPF approved oils are a disaster area in wear terms, as there is no cheap alternative to Zinc, but a combination of extra Moly and BN does work wonders, but is too expensive for any engine oil companies to use at present.
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