Rabid raccoon and police officers

[FordBroncoVWJeta]

Originally Posted By: PeterPolyol

that phrasing ZZman yikes

Seriously though, what is Animal Control for? Are there services in these areas? Why are police people doing 911-escalated animal control jobs? What's next, critical-response roofing and financial planning?
Even in Topeka KS, Animal Control can take a while. Im pretty sure they also get Sunday off, unless its emergencies. On top of that they don't work 24/7. My bet is that animal control was ties up at the moment or off all together.

 

[Alfred_B]

You can never accuse the cops to be humane.

 

[ZeeOSix]

How do the cops know it was rabid? They have no idea. Maybe it knows there was food around the shopping area and that's why it was hanging around.

A lot of people "act rabid" in the eyes of the police ... maybe they should run them over too.

That's just the cop's lame excuse.

 

[Mr Nice]

Originally Posted By: 02SE
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Not a police bash, but they could use better judgement especially during the day time when people will film the incident.


What would be better judgement?

The Police were apparently called because it was suspected that the raccoon was acting rabid. Pulling out their guns and firing at the animal in a crowded area, wouldn't have been a great idea. It seems to me the Police handled it in the safest possible manner for the public.


Maybe cops should enforce laws being broken by criminals and not be called out for a possible rabid raccoon.

When I went riding a few nights with my brother's friend, he arrested a few drunk drivers and crack dealers. No raccoon calls from dispatch.

 

[02SE]

Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Originally Posted By: 02SE
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Not a police bash, but they could use better judgement especially during the day time when people will film the incident.


What would be better judgement?

The Police were apparently called because it was suspected that the raccoon was acting rabid. Pulling out their guns and firing at the animal in a crowded area, wouldn't have been a great idea. It seems to me the Police handled it in the safest possible manner for the public.


Maybe cops should enforce laws being broken by criminals and not be called out for a possible rabid raccoon.

When I went riding a few nights with my brother's friend, he arrested a few drunk drivers and crack dealers. No raccoon calls from dispatch.

One of my best friends was a cop. I know several more. They are called for all sorts of things. Maybe people shouldn't call the Cops for a suspected rabid animal.

Since they were called, and were expected to do something about the "rabid animal" they choose a method of dispatching the animal that didn't put the public in danger, like firing rounds at the animal would..

 

[ZeeOSix]

If cops are going to play "animal control officer" they should carry some appropriate equipment instead of trying to run animals over with their vehicles to "stop them".

If it was a dog "acting rabid" would they try to run it over?

 

[PeterPolyol]

Funny thing is this behavior is not unprecedented at all. In Toronto, they run the target over, and then shoot it! And when all's said and done, it's not even the animal they thought it was, but someone's pet.

 

[dishdude]

A few years ago I lived in the suburban subdivision that was still under construction. A raccoon was hanging around in the middle of the street for an hour or so and appeared sick or disoriented. Concerned about pets and children, I called the police. They drug it behind a construction dumpster and shot it. A neighbor came out and threw a total fit that the raccoon had been shot, she was not at all happy. I have to give credit to the cops, they were very professional dealing with her.

 

[andyd]

Raccoons are nocturnal, so if you see one in broad daylight, chances are it is sick. Canine distemper wiped them out around here.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted By: andyd
Raccoons are nocturnal, so if you see one in broad daylight, chances are it is sick. Canine distemper wiped them out around here.


Not true anymore thanks to human intervention. I can find loads of coons roaming during daylight here. We have some islands infested with them. FWC hasn't found a rabid one in years.

One island I go to is so bad that about 90 of them will board your boat if you turn your back for 1 second. Not rabid. Just messed up from human contact. Daylight food opportunity, daylight operation. Simple as that.

 

[dnewton3]

I can tell you that in our area, LEOs are the first line of defense against, well, everything.
Fire in your house? We're probably there first.
Accident? We're there first, most of the time.
Heart attack in your living room? We're there typically before the ambulance.
Overdose of heroine? We're there with the Naloxone.
Animal issue (dog, cat, squirrel, raccoon, deer, llama, cow, horse, snake, geese, snapping turtle, etc)? We're there first most of the time. (That list is a sample of my 23 years LEO).

In my area, Animal Control is often "on call" on the weekends, and won't respond hardly at all; it's a budget thing. Even during the week, AC slow to respond. They deal more with chronic issues (neglect, licenses, repeat nuisance calls, etc). They do NOT deal quickly with acute issues; those that demand immediate attention. Most of you have heard the old line about "When crime happens in seconds, cops are only minutes away." Well, cops joke about that being extend out to AC "When an animal problem happens, cops are minutes away and AC is hours behind." Many entities don't even have a local AC officer; they have cooperative agreements with other agencies, sometimes far away.

In this thread storyline, they clearly defined why they didn't shoot; it was in a populated area.
It was reasonably determined that the animal was a risk; not acting normally and out at a time known to be "wrong" for the species.
Other choices such as Taser, OC spray, etc are not always easy to deploy on small, mobile targets.

If the officers don't show up, they are labeled as "too busy at the doughnut shop".
If the officers had arrived, but then driven away, just turning it over to "animal control", they'd be lambasted for being "lazy".
If the officers shot the animal, they'd be harangued for being "reckless" with their guns.
If the officers beat the animal with a club, they'd be chastised for being "cruel".
If the officers quarantined the area, corralled the vermin, and waited for over an hour for AC to show up, they'd be called wasteful for not tending to other issues.
If the officers drove it over with a car ...
You get the idea; it's a no-win scenario - a Kobayashi Maru test for LEOs (one of many for cops).

At least three-bazillion small mammals are run over by cars every single day in the US, and we're worried about this one?
Get over yourself.

Don't want to see cops do something like this? Deal with the problem yourself and don't call 911.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Rabid raccoon and police officers. I think calling the animal services department of their city would have been a much better option than running over the critter.

http://news10.com/2018/03/12/witnesses-police-try-to-run-over-raccoon/


rabid, running over it was far more humane than letting "nature" take it's course.

Volley of shots, they have to consider what's behind the target...for best part of a mile.

 

[PSS]

I had a police officer come out for a likely rabid raccoon. He used his small, ankle pistol to take it out.

 

[ZeeOSix]

dnewton - if LEOs are first responders in animal situations like this, why don't they have at least a few proper tools (like nets, tranquiler guns, noose poles, etc) to take care of the situations like AC would?

 

[dnewton3]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
dnewton - if LEOs are first responders in animal situations like this, why don't they have at least a few proper tools (like nets, tranquiler guns, noose poles, etc) to take care of the situations like AC would?


I suppose we could, but that's a lot more equipment to buy to outfit all the cars, and yet more training we'd have to take ...
We do have proper tools; we just don't have ALL the tools.

You could also ask why we're not all licensed EMTs; but we'd need lots more medical training and tons more stuff in the trunk. Cops are expected to not only be the jacks of all trades, but masters of those trades. Can't be done. We're triage (conceptually) in most cases. We should not have to be experts at everything. Now days, we're even expected to be street-level psychiatrists.

The "in service" training hours are burdensome now; to add more would be almost untenable. And it would cost more, too. Money that comes from taxes; something else most folks like to complain about.



I get it; people want everything to be perfect, and all for "free".
No such thing though.

 

[Andrew1972]

Not brightest nor humane way of taking out a raccoon and creates really bad PR for department.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Thanks for your comments dnewton, but I'd think LEOs having at least a net and a pole noose would work much better than trying to run an animal over with a car. If LEOs are expected to get involved with animal control on a low level they should at least have some basic tools for the job. They might even find a use for those tools on "two legged animals" ... although a car would work on them too I suppose.

 

[dnewton3]

OK - so in your scenario, the cops net or noose the animal ...

Now what? Your suggestion is incomplete; it does not bring this to a conclusion but only furthers the debate.

Just what do you propose a cop do with an angry animal on the end of a stick? Something still has to be done with the animal. AC won't show up for 30-60 minutes. Does the cop just stand there and hold the animal while it wails, screeches, hisses, struggles, strangles, etc? That would just about as good on youtube ...


Again - there is no perfect conclusion here. The cops did the best they could with the equipment they had, given the conditional limitations of the environment and time constraints.


If one is to arm-chair quarterback this, at least get it all the way to a touchdown. Don't just toss in a "tool" and then act as if you've solved the problem. I suppose we could carry that suggestion out and now make it a requirement for cops to carry a large animal crate in the vehicle, so we can contain the animal.

We'll keep it right next to all the other tools we currently have (fire extinguishers, stop-sticks, rifle/shotgun, computer and communication equipment, good-will hand out materials for children, riot gear, spare ammo, flare sticks, rain gear, accident investigation measurement tools and gear, reflective vests, personal equipment bags, journal logs, alcohol field sobriety tests, illicit drug test kits, etc).
And for good measure, we'll also start carrying the following so we can be the "best" for all situations:
- full Paramedic kits (typically about three LARGE bags of drugs, hoses, tubes, and machines that go "Ping")
- full fire-fighting turn out gear
- complete HAZMAT response gear and mitigation kits
- total federal DOT compliance gear for big-rig semi-trucks including weigh scales
- jaws of life for cutting our way into entrapped vehicles
- full electrical kit for De-energizing power poles including dielectric gloves, hi-volt expandable disconnect pole, and line-man shoes
- etc


Folks - cops cannot be expected to be a master of all trades; the equipment needed and training needed would be unmanageable.

In theory, why not just buy large busses, load it up with about 20,000 pounds of various gear, then put about 17 trained personnel capable of handling ANY situation, and then send them out on patrol ...



Probably would be easier just to carry a box of tissues for the tears wept for the raccoon ...

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
OK - so in your scenario, the cops net or noose the animal ...

Now what? Your suggestion is incomplete; it does not bring this to a conclusion but only furthers the debate.

Just what do you propose a cop do with an angry animal on the end of a stick? Something still has to be done with the animal. AC won't show up for 30-60 minutes. Does the cop just stand there and hold the animal while it wails, screeches, hisses, struggles, strangles, etc?


Yeah, they should wait for AC. What if it was someone's loose dog that people in some neighborhood didn't want running around thinking it was going to bite someone (when it actually wasn't that vicious)? Would the LOE show up and just try to kill it, or would he somehow get it under control while waiting for AC? Also, AC should be such that they can respond in a reasonable time on something like this.

Yes, I agree it's not perfect world out there, but it looks really bad for LEOs to try and use their cars as tools of death on animals without trying to put the animal under some kind of control with proper tools and methods while not even really knowing of the animal is going to cause any harm or not. Yes, LEOs have a tough job, but some things can still probably be improved out their in the field. This racoon instance just seems like one of them.

 

[dnewton3]

We get loose dog calls in the sub-divisions. (no one generally complains about such in the rural areas).

When we arrive, it's generally easy to see if the dog is just "roaming" or "lost"; they typically appear well cared for, and while not always "friendly", they are not a danger to general public. In this case, we just log it, call for AC and leave. If the animal is not a perceived direct threat to health/safety, we don't engage.

But there are times we've had to engage a dangerous canine; one that's attacked a passer-by. Those are dealt with immediately. No dog is worth a child's life (or even an adult, as recent stories have proven). If we can locate a neighbor that knows the owners, or the animal, we'll ask them to help get the animal corralled. If the animal made significant aggressive threats, or actual physical attack, the animal is subject to confiscation or immediate disposition. The delineation is one of actual physical harm; if the animal has bitten someone or significantly threatening to do so, it's presumed to be dangerous. If no immediate means to control it exist, shoot it, log it and AC can dispose of it. Our county has a leash-law; any animal uncontrolled or not contained is subject to lethal force, if necessary. It's a last resort, but it is an option that we've used before. Does not matter if it's a dog, cat, cow, horse or whatever. Any time we discharge a weapon on duty, we have to make a full report; same goes for any use of force. We also have body cams. It's all well documented. I've not seen any abuse of an animal by our deputies. If we had to "run one over" rather than shoot it, so be it.

There's no such thing, at least in our area, of a timely AC response. They are under-staffed and low on budget. As a generalization, by the time they show up, the animal is either gone, or dead. Rare (very, very rare) is the time I've actually seen them show up and have to deal with the animal directly. I know of one time that they flat told us to shoot the animal; they don't want to get close to try and noose it.