engine is 3.5l in an 04 santa fe. 100k on the clock. it doesn't seem to be doing any noticeable damage, per a UOA, but man is this thing noisy at idle until it warms up! at speed the engine is nice and quiet, even when cold, but at idle not so much. would the oil weight effect this? better filter? i hear all the "the oem filters have check valves" but my experience with subarus and their noisy engines, didn't matter what you ran, it was going to be noisy. perhaps that is the case here too?
quieting cold start engine noise
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Try the correct viscosity oil, and a top notch filter, Like a Fran Ultra or Bosch D+
If it still does it, then look elsewhere.
If it still does it, then look elsewhere.
Is this a new thing, or has it always been noisy? My CX9 is a clattery beast when cold, always has been. Inside the car you can't hear it, I only notice it if I'm in the garage as my wife is leaving for work in the morning, it rattles away nicely! Once warm though, it purrs. I think some engines are just like that.
If on the other hand this has only recently started happening with your Hyundai, it's worth investigating. Over the years I've found serpentine belts and/or tensioners to be the cause of some strange noises. A stethoscope is handy for diagnosis. Good luck!
If on the other hand this has only recently started happening with your Hyundai, it's worth investigating. Over the years I've found serpentine belts and/or tensioners to be the cause of some strange noises. A stethoscope is handy for diagnosis. Good luck!
Switching from PU to M1EP in my 12 Escape completely got rid of the cold start/warm up chattering. I wasn't really expecting it to do that and not why I switched, but its sure nice to have a quiet start in the mornings now.
You might just have to experiment with different oils/filters.
You might just have to experiment with different oils/filters.
Is there a problem with oil return and sludge? Areas affected by sludge can be localized and not easy to detect by casual observation. If the oil return passage(s) is/are plugged you might have a problem that results in noise until the oil warms up and the return flow increases. Some engines that sludged up demonstrated this kind of behavior, that is noise on start up that quickly quieted down. One service center for rental cars was able to successfully work through this problem with a particular vehicle in their inventory by using Auto-Rx in about 60-70% of those vehicles. These were vehicles where the noise was not heard by the occupants but was easy to detect if standing outside the vehicle on start up. Vehicles that did not respond to treatment were release to auction and may have resulted in contributing to the reputation of that manufacturer for having produced "sludgers" and the problem of noise on start up was not nearly as news worthy.
Piston slap. Weight & friction in pistons are being eliminated so much for MPG that "it's a thing now".
Oil filter check valves are good for valve noise but not this.
I'd love a clear consensus on an oil good for muffling noise-- and note that muffling noise with thicker oil could cause measurably more wear. My 05 neon SOHC clatters like a diesel when cold; I actually kinda like the noise, very mechanical.
Oil filter check valves are good for valve noise but not this.
I'd love a clear consensus on an oil good for muffling noise-- and note that muffling noise with thicker oil could cause measurably more wear. My 05 neon SOHC clatters like a diesel when cold; I actually kinda like the noise, very mechanical.
+1
oil filter just make noise for 1 to 3 seconds, usually. If it takes more time, the problem much probably is elsewhere. A heavier oil will quiet the engine, most of the times.
oil filter just make noise for 1 to 3 seconds, usually. If it takes more time, the problem much probably is elsewhere. A heavier oil will quiet the engine, most of the times.
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Try the quietest oil: a mix of PYB and QSGB.
Then run a wix filter if the OE Hyundai does not have a Si adbv.
If not oil specific: Maybe your T-chain tensioner is getting varnished and the guides are worn away you are getting a lot of chain noise and slapping (assuming this is a chain motor - maybe its not.)
Also, Accessory pulleys can be a source of racket as well as a disintegrating cat-con core..
Good luck
Then run a wix filter if the OE Hyundai does not have a Si adbv.
If not oil specific: Maybe your T-chain tensioner is getting varnished and the guides are worn away you are getting a lot of chain noise and slapping (assuming this is a chain motor - maybe its not.)
Also, Accessory pulleys can be a source of racket as well as a disintegrating cat-con core..
Good luck
The cure for my noise Volvo was two cans of SeaFoam - 1/2 can through the brake booster hose, 1/2 can in the oil for about 20 miles of driving, and 1/2 can in the fuel (I put the leftover 1/2 can in the next tank of gas).
I added to the oil and fuel first on the way home from work. Then did the brake hose when I got home. Waited about five minutes, then drove around for twenty minutes (I was doing to drive until the smoke stopped, but it didn't).
Got home and changed the oil. It was fine from then on until the transmission lost reverse and I got rid of it.
I added to the oil and fuel first on the way home from work. Then did the brake hose when I got home. Waited about five minutes, then drove around for twenty minutes (I was doing to drive until the smoke stopped, but it didn't).
Got home and changed the oil. It was fine from then on until the transmission lost reverse and I got rid of it.
Originally Posted By: hpb
Is this a new thing, or has it always been noisy? My CX9 is a clattery beast when cold, always has been. Inside the car you can't hear it, I only notice it if I'm in the garage as my wife is leaving for work in the morning, it rattles away nicely! Once warm though, it purrs. I think some engines are just like that.
If on the other hand this has only recently started happening with your Hyundai, it's worth investigating. Over the years I've found serpentine belts and/or tensioners to be the cause of some strange noises. A stethoscope is handy for diagnosis. Good luck!
i've only owned the vehicle for 1500 miles, or a few months. i have no way of knowing if the engine has always done this. the timing belt and S drive belts have all been changed. and it's not noisy like my subarus were. i think their engine noise was more lifter/valves. they sounded like diesels! this is more of a low end gurgle type noise. it is noticeable from inside the cabin. the decible level kicks up when i put it in gear too, i'm guessing from the strain on the engine.
Is this a new thing, or has it always been noisy? My CX9 is a clattery beast when cold, always has been. Inside the car you can't hear it, I only notice it if I'm in the garage as my wife is leaving for work in the morning, it rattles away nicely! Once warm though, it purrs. I think some engines are just like that.
If on the other hand this has only recently started happening with your Hyundai, it's worth investigating. Over the years I've found serpentine belts and/or tensioners to be the cause of some strange noises. A stethoscope is handy for diagnosis. Good luck!
i've only owned the vehicle for 1500 miles, or a few months. i have no way of knowing if the engine has always done this. the timing belt and S drive belts have all been changed. and it's not noisy like my subarus were. i think their engine noise was more lifter/valves. they sounded like diesels! this is more of a low end gurgle type noise. it is noticeable from inside the cabin. the decible level kicks up when i put it in gear too, i'm guessing from the strain on the engine.
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Try the quietest oil: a mix of PYB and QSGB.
Then run a wix filter if the OE Hyundai does not have a Si adbv.
If not oil specific: Maybe your T-chain tensioner is getting varnished and the guides are worn away you are getting a lot of chain noise and slapping (assuming this is a chain motor - maybe its not.)
Also, Accessory pulleys can be a source of racket as well as a disintegrating cat-con core..
Good luck
no chain. i have a belt, which was just changed a few weeks ago. tensionser was inspected and reused. what is cat-con core? i don't think it's belt noise. it's not squealing or slipping noise. not really metal on metal per se.
Try the quietest oil: a mix of PYB and QSGB.
Then run a wix filter if the OE Hyundai does not have a Si adbv.
If not oil specific: Maybe your T-chain tensioner is getting varnished and the guides are worn away you are getting a lot of chain noise and slapping (assuming this is a chain motor - maybe its not.)
Also, Accessory pulleys can be a source of racket as well as a disintegrating cat-con core..
Good luck
no chain. i have a belt, which was just changed a few weeks ago. tensionser was inspected and reused. what is cat-con core? i don't think it's belt noise. it's not squealing or slipping noise. not really metal on metal per se.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Piston slap. Weight & friction in pistons are being eliminated so much for MPG that "it's a thing now".
Oil filter check valves are good for valve noise but not this.
I'd love a clear consensus on an oil good for muffling noise-- and note that muffling noise with thicker oil could cause measurably more wear. My 05 neon SOHC clatters like a diesel when cold; I actually kinda like the noise, very mechanical.
so why would lighter pistons only make noise when cold? not saying it's not that, just curious. i don't believe this noise is coming from/creating damage. my wear metals are in line.
Piston slap. Weight & friction in pistons are being eliminated so much for MPG that "it's a thing now".
Oil filter check valves are good for valve noise but not this.
I'd love a clear consensus on an oil good for muffling noise-- and note that muffling noise with thicker oil could cause measurably more wear. My 05 neon SOHC clatters like a diesel when cold; I actually kinda like the noise, very mechanical.
so why would lighter pistons only make noise when cold? not saying it's not that, just curious. i don't believe this noise is coming from/creating damage. my wear metals are in line.
Originally Posted By: stranger706
Switching from PU to M1EP in my 12 Escape completely got rid of the cold start/warm up chattering. I wasn't really expecting it to do that and not why I switched, but its sure nice to have a quiet start in the mornings now.
You might just have to experiment with different oils/filters.
there is regular dino oil in right now. at 5K i'm planning on going to M1EP... maybe it'll help.
Switching from PU to M1EP in my 12 Escape completely got rid of the cold start/warm up chattering. I wasn't really expecting it to do that and not why I switched, but its sure nice to have a quiet start in the mornings now.
You might just have to experiment with different oils/filters.
there is regular dino oil in right now. at 5K i'm planning on going to M1EP... maybe it'll help.
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Is there a problem with oil return and sludge? Areas affected by sludge can be localized and not easy to detect by casual observation. If the oil return passage(s) is/are plugged you might have a problem that results in noise until the oil warms up and the return flow increases. Some engines that sludged up demonstrated this kind of behavior, that is noise on start up that quickly quieted down. One service center for rental cars was able to successfully work through this problem with a particular vehicle in their inventory by using Auto-Rx in about 60-70% of those vehicles. These were vehicles where the noise was not heard by the occupants but was easy to detect if standing outside the vehicle on start up. Vehicles that did not respond to treatment were release to auction and may have resulted in contributing to the reputation of that manufacturer for having produced "sludgers" and the problem of noise on start up was not nearly as news worthy.
it's really not that quick... at least 5 minutes of driving. my coolant will be warm before the clatter stops... how do i know if it's a oil return issue? would that cause wear metals in a UOA? if my oil returns are staying blocked for five minutes of driving i can't imagine by engine would even still be alive.
Is there a problem with oil return and sludge? Areas affected by sludge can be localized and not easy to detect by casual observation. If the oil return passage(s) is/are plugged you might have a problem that results in noise until the oil warms up and the return flow increases. Some engines that sludged up demonstrated this kind of behavior, that is noise on start up that quickly quieted down. One service center for rental cars was able to successfully work through this problem with a particular vehicle in their inventory by using Auto-Rx in about 60-70% of those vehicles. These were vehicles where the noise was not heard by the occupants but was easy to detect if standing outside the vehicle on start up. Vehicles that did not respond to treatment were release to auction and may have resulted in contributing to the reputation of that manufacturer for having produced "sludgers" and the problem of noise on start up was not nearly as news worthy.
it's really not that quick... at least 5 minutes of driving. my coolant will be warm before the clatter stops... how do i know if it's a oil return issue? would that cause wear metals in a UOA? if my oil returns are staying blocked for five minutes of driving i can't imagine by engine would even still be alive.
pistons with shorter skirts and less lost friction will tend to make more noise than old design heavier ones.. once they warm up they fit the cylinder bores tighter.
More noise vs less mpg... getting it perfect is still a work in progress.
Arco tends to reply in obtuse hard to understand shorthand fashion.. but since he has blown up more engines himself than the average nascar driver.. if you dont understand his posts its no big loss.
Let me translate the arco speak for you.
SI means silcone anti-drainback since si is silicon
catcon = catalytic converter.
More noise vs less mpg... getting it perfect is still a work in progress.
Arco tends to reply in obtuse hard to understand shorthand fashion.. but since he has blown up more engines himself than the average nascar driver.. if you dont understand his posts its no big loss.
Let me translate the arco speak for you.
SI means silcone anti-drainback since si is silicon
catcon = catalytic converter.
Originally Posted By: Rand
pistons with shorter skirts and less lost friction will tend to make more noise than old design heavier ones.. once they warm up they fit the cylinder bores tighter.
More noise vs less mpg... getting it perfect is still a work in progress.
Arco tends to reply in obtuse hard to understand shorthand fashion.. but since he has blown up more engines himself than the average nascar driver.. if you dont understand his posts its no big loss.
Let me translate the arco speak for you.
SI means silcone anti-drainback since si is silicon
catcon = catalytic converter.
so the noise is a design issue... which i'm assuming they are aware of, because well they designed it, and do anyway, so it should have no harmful side-effects...
pistons with shorter skirts and less lost friction will tend to make more noise than old design heavier ones.. once they warm up they fit the cylinder bores tighter.
More noise vs less mpg... getting it perfect is still a work in progress.
Arco tends to reply in obtuse hard to understand shorthand fashion.. but since he has blown up more engines himself than the average nascar driver.. if you dont understand his posts its no big loss.
Let me translate the arco speak for you.
SI means silcone anti-drainback since si is silicon
catcon = catalytic converter.
so the noise is a design issue... which i'm assuming they are aware of, because well they designed it, and do anyway, so it should have no harmful side-effects...
Originally Posted By: chado_skins
... this is more of a low end gurgle type noise. it is noticeable from inside the cabin. the decible level kicks up when i put it in gear too, i'm guessing from the strain on the engine.
You may have a small exhaust leak. Cracked exhaust manifolds can sound like engine knock, ping, piston slap or valve noise. Difference is that these noises are RPM related, not load related, while exhaust leak sound will change with RPM, load or both.
... this is more of a low end gurgle type noise. it is noticeable from inside the cabin. the decible level kicks up when i put it in gear too, i'm guessing from the strain on the engine.
You may have a small exhaust leak. Cracked exhaust manifolds can sound like engine knock, ping, piston slap or valve noise. Difference is that these noises are RPM related, not load related, while exhaust leak sound will change with RPM, load or both.
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
You may have a small exhaust leak. Cracked exhaust manifolds can sound like engine knock, ping, piston slap or valve noise. Difference is that these noises are RPM related, not load related, while exhaust leak sound will change with RPM, load or both.
wouldn't an exhaust leak getting louder with acceleration? under driving load the engine is very quiet, even when cold. it only makes the gurgle when cold, and at idle.
You may have a small exhaust leak. Cracked exhaust manifolds can sound like engine knock, ping, piston slap or valve noise. Difference is that these noises are RPM related, not load related, while exhaust leak sound will change with RPM, load or both.
wouldn't an exhaust leak getting louder with acceleration? under driving load the engine is very quiet, even when cold. it only makes the gurgle when cold, and at idle.
also... if it's piston noise due to the pistons being cold, and goes away once they warm up due to design, i don't see oil changing any of that. different oil isn't going to change the shape/design of the piston. it won't allow the pistons to heat up faster...
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