putting oil in the filter at oil change?

[Nate1979]

Originally Posted By: Eddie
We need some real data here. Would be interested to know if any car engine manufactures have any data to share. Ed


Would it be in the factory service manuals? I have never seen it in an owners manual. If it was super important it would be in the owners manual.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: zrxkawboy
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
The leading "wall of oil" flow that hits the dry media is going to flow through the media the same regardless if the media is dry or wet.


I don't believe this to be true. The question is whether there is enough of a difference to matter.


Here's an analogy. If you stand in a dry river bed, and then a wall of water comes flowing down the river bed and impacts your legs (and continues to flow a steady steam of water volume over your legs), the force your legs feel is the same from the second that wall of water hits you, and is the same force as long as you stand in the constantly flowing stream of water.

The initial impact of the water "wall" might feel higher at first, but it's really only creating the same force as the constant flowing volume of water well after the "wall" first hits you.

 

[Eddie]

I believe that in the big picture of variables it makes no difference statistically. Ed

 

[HangFire]

Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Would it be in the factory service manuals? I have never seen it in an owners manual. If it was super important it would be in the owners manual.


I consider maintenance schedules to be super important, but my relatively new vehicle (that doesn't have a maintenance minder) doesn't have it in the manual. It refers to a separate document that I also received at purchase, which had no maintenance schedule in it either. I had to call Toyota to get the real thing, and they acted like they were doing me some great one-time only favor by sending it to me.

 

[ZeeOSix]

^^^ There was no basic maintenance schedule in the Owner's Manual? Seems strange not to include one ... every OM I've ever seen has some kind of maintenance schedule listed.

 

[CapitalTruck]

Shouldn't be empty, that's what ADBV is for. Unless it's a cartridge filter, then who knows...

 

[CapitalTruck]

Originally Posted By: Eddie
I believe that in the big picture of variables it makes no difference statistically. Ed


How dare you.

 

[zrxkawboy]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

Here's an analogy. If you stand in a dry river bed, and then a wall of water comes flowing down the river bed and impacts your legs (and continues to flow a steady steam of water volume over your legs), the force your legs feel is the same from the second that wall of water hits you, and is the same force as long as you stand in the constantly flowing stream of water.


The water doesn't saturate my legs.

 

[zrxkawboy]

Originally Posted By: Shannow

The real question is whether your belief outweighs science, and how much more the filter media believes your belief or actual fact.

Got some science to back your belief ?


I have presented the same amount of science that ZeeOSix has presented.

I think you misunderstood. I said this is something I have wondered about, not "here is a fact, and here are test results to back it up". Go back and read my post.

 

[ChrisD46]

What do you suppose would be the time difference (in seconds) between pumping oil to an engine internals with a pre-filled oil filter vs. a dry oil filter ?
Originally Posted By: HangFire
Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
In a ideal situation pre-filling a oil filter is a good idea ... But in many vehicles where the oil filter sits sideways or you have to carefully thread the oil filter through a small passageway , around obstructions , etc. I just say install a dry filter and be done with it ...


Why do we have to hash through the SAME NONSENSE every time this issue comes up?

The first time you fill an oil filter, all or almost all of the oil is absorbed by the filter media. Even if the filter goes on upside down you can still pre-fill to some degree.

 

[HangFire]

Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
What do you suppose would be the time difference (in seconds) between pumping oil to an engine internals with a pre-filled oil filter vs. a dry oil filter ?


This is easily quantifiable by counting the time between start and when the oil pressure light goes out. On my truck it's <1 second versus 4-5 seconds.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: HangFire
Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
What do you suppose would be the time difference (in seconds) between pumping oil to an engine internals with a pre-filled oil filter vs. a dry oil filter ?


This is easily quantifiable by counting the time between start and when the oil pressure light goes out. On my truck it's div>


On my vehicles, the difference is only about 1~2 seconds. Obviously, the size of the oil filter and the volume of the oil galleries will have an effect on this test.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: zrxkawboy
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

Here's an analogy. If you stand in a dry river bed, and then a wall of water comes flowing down the river bed and impacts your legs (and continues to flow a steady steam of water volume over your legs), the force your legs feel is the same from the second that wall of water hits you, and is the same force as long as you stand in the constantly flowing stream of water.


The water doesn't saturate my legs.


Doesn't matter. Go instrument your legs with force transducers and go do the river bed test.

 

[chrisri]

Originally Posted By: RJS1971
Should I fill the filter up when I change my oil?


No, it's messy and you only can do it on some engines because of the way filter is mounted.
But I do take off ECU fuse on some cars when changing oil and build up pressure by cranking.

 

[zrxkawboy]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: zrxkawboy
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

Here's an analogy. If you stand in a dry river bed, and then a wall of water comes flowing down the river bed and impacts your legs (and continues to flow a steady steam of water volume over your legs), the force your legs feel is the same from the second that wall of water hits you, and is the same force as long as you stand in the constantly flowing stream of water.


The water doesn't saturate my legs.


Doesn't matter. Go instrument your legs with force transducers and go do the river bed test.

Failed analogy. Besides my legs not becoming saturated, there is another key difference: 100% of the water goes AROUND my legs, whereas 100% of the oil goes THROUGH the media.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: zrxkawboy
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: zrxkawboy
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

Here's an analogy. If you stand in a dry river bed, and then a wall of water comes flowing down the river bed and impacts your legs (and continues to flow a steady steam of water volume over your legs), the force your legs feel is the same from the second that wall of water hits you, and is the same force as long as you stand in the constantly flowing stream of water.


The water doesn't saturate my legs.


Doesn't matter. Go instrument your legs with force transducers and go do the river bed test.

Failed analogy. Besides my legs not becoming saturated, there is another key difference: 100% of the water goes AROUND my legs, whereas 100% of the oil goes THROUGH the media.


If your legs were made out of filter media the analogy would still hold true.

If you think it's a "failed analogy", then please show/explain why you think in-rushing oil volume (that never changes in volumetric flow during this scenario) puts more force on the media when it first hits vs. after it has filled the oil filter.

The force (delta-p) on the media is only a function of the oil viscosity and GPM flow rate, and those factors don't change at any time between when the oil first hits vs time after it hits the media.

 

[zrxkawboy]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

If you think it's a "failed analogy", then please show/explain


Already did. If you think water rushing around my legs = oil flow through filter media, then I guess we probably won't come to agreement, and should just let it rest.

 

[ZeeOSix]

^^^ Agreed, no use wasting our time. But if you don't believe the analogy do some more research in fluid dynamics flow laws.

Hint: Force is still produced when fluid hits or flows past an object, regardless if the fluid is flowing through or around that object. Just how much force is produced is determined by what the object is in the flow path, and the fluid & flow properties.