pure acetone?

[4esorselrahc]

The point is, people are being encouraged to mess around with a very flammable mixture without fully understanding the long term effects of it on one's engine. Until I see a manual that encourages the use of acetone, I will say it is a big risk for one to take...No scare tactics intended.

 

[ConfederateTyrant]

4 ounces per 19-20 gallones (2432-2560 ounces) is an extremely small percentage. Plus with that heavy a dilution rate, it may not even be a risk. I agree that people shouldn't mess around with anything they don't fully understand, but not all fuel system cleaners may be all that much safer than acetone.

I just want to hear some sides of the story about how someone screwed up their vehicle. No one mentions that, they only mention the harm it does to plastics and polymers outside of the fuel system. I assure you, if I heard enough bad about people truly screwing their cars up, then I would be much more hesitant.

 

[4esorselrahc]

There's not much evidence of any benefit from using it, so why even bother? Newer engines have numerous sensors etc. that may risk damage. As for other additives, I don't put much stock in those either really. It's your stuff...experiment away. You can tell us in a few years how things are working. It would make me nervous wondering what damage it might be occuring from an untested additive that is not recommended just because some yahoo posted an idea on the internet. But that's just me. The use of engine oil/fuel additives may void one's warranty as well (I think dumping acetone in the fuel certainly would). My manual discourages the use of oil additives all together.

 

[MKR]

I would be much more worried about ethanol in your gas. It is corrosive, acetone is not. Ethanol can not be transported thru the pipelines because it will corrode the steel. Wonder what it does to your engine? I have used acetone for 3 years in my vehicles, I won't make any wild claims of huge mpg gains, I will just say it works for me. All my vehicles still run fine.

 

[4esorselrahc]

While this may be the case, my vehicle is rated to run on ethanol blends (up to 15%), but not acetone blends. I can tell you from personal experience in the chemistry lab that acetone is a much stronger solvent when it comes to leaching plastics and rubber.

 

[ConfederateTyrant]

Well, here's a good lab experiment to try. Get a 5 gallon jug of gasoline, and add 1-1.5 ounce of acetone to it. That would make it on the same ratio as 2-3 ounces per 10 gallons. Split whatever material you use in half, one for a control (to either be left alone or soaked in gasoline, your choice), one for the experiment. Let each soak for 3-5 days and then compare.

 

[punisher]

Quote:

---

http://www.mpgresearch.com/
mpg Research :: Index
We can't dispute that many serious people DO get good results with acetone.

---

Oh, I can absolutely dispute it. I have yet to see ANY peer reviewed study that shows an MPG increase from acetone addition. Anecdotal evidence, hearsay, yes, but no verifiable evidence. I even tried it in my wife's car without telling her I added it and I guess it doesn't work that well if you don't know it's there. Acetone does make a dandy cleaning solvent, I will give it that much. Just the expectation of better mileage is enough to get some drivers to change their habits enough to actually get better mileage. It is a true illustration of a "self fulfilling prophecy".

 

[ekpolk]

I'll second the Punisher in disputing these claims. Not only did I see absolutely no impact in my own informal experiments, but the suggested "mechanism" of benefit makes no sense. As a GM engineer and former BITOG member put it (paraphrasing), to think that a tiny proportion of acetone added to gasoline will make any difference in its evaporation or combustion, as a microdrop of fuel is shot into a hurricane of air, compressed and burned in microseconds, is ludicrous. "Ludicrous" is perhaps a harsh characterization, but I think it fits. I'm open-minded, though, when the first peer reviewed, properly designed study suggests otherwise, I'll reconsider.

 

[ConfederateTyrant]

ekpolk,
I understand that 2-3 ounces per 10 gallons is heavily diluted, but it is on the same treat level as FP60. Some have had FP60 do wonders for them at such small treat levels. FP3000 is half that treat level for gasoline. While the chemistries are indeed difference, could it really be that much of a difference in terms of ratios?

 

[mechtech2]

Punisher - Personal testimony holds up in a court of law.
Why don't you accept the testimony of so many people that have used acetone with good results? Sure, some are more meticulous in their testing than others, but there is now a huge pool of info to draw from.
It can be of benefit:
Maybe because of it's cleaning.
Maybe because of it's properties when mixed with gas.
Maybe because it fools the O2 sensor.

I started using acetone again, and I like it. Since I can make up any data that sounds cool, I will refrain from specifics.

 

[Pablo]

I won't belittle the use of acetone. In some cases I can imagine it helping. Does it make economical sense? Well if you can get acetone free - go for it.

OTOH - this video "test" is 100% hogswallow. Bogus, beyond bogosity.

 

[ekpolk]

Quote:

---

ekpolk,
I understand that 2-3 ounces per 10 gallons is heavily diluted, but it is on the same treat level as FP60. Some have had FP60 do wonders for them at such small treat levels. FP3000 is half that treat level for gasoline. While the chemistries are indeed difference, could it really be that much of a difference in terms of ratios?

---

But it's not the treat level, per se, that matters, at least in my thinking. What I could envision acetone doing, maybe in some cases, is providing some cleaning, where the conditions happen to be right. Hypothetically, that certainly could improve efficiency if either the injectors were cleaned to where they performed better. Perhaps reduction of deposits on the intake valve or in the CC could be effected by use of acetone as well. But I really don't see any sensible theory for how acetone would "help" gasoline evaporate or burn better. Again, we're talking about minute amounts of fuel in each injection pulse, injected at high pressure, into a blast of air, in a process that takes only a few tiny fractions of a second.
All that said, I certainly could be wrong. I'm still waiting for someone to come up with some real scientific work that demonstrates a real benefit (other than cleaning) to the use of acetone.

 

[ekpolk]

Pabs, hope your neck is feeling better. I just went to the "mpg research" website. Oh my goodness, acetone it seems, would be the black tie, buttoned down experimental additive. Others are trying concoctions of boric acid, contact cement, and yes --"bug poison" (their term, not mine)! Gee, I hope the guy trying the latter is experiencing complete combustion, or I'd hate to be the poor fool behind him in traffic -- who will find out first hand whether catalytic converters can convert neurotoxins. . .

 

[ConfederateTyrant]

Pablo,
I got a quart of acetone for ~$4 (maybe less, I don't have the receipt around so I can verify), which would be ~$0.13 per ounce. Since I fill up every half tank, I would end up adding ~$0.26 (2 ounces per 10 gallons) each time. Pretty cheap if you ask me, and I'm a cheap ba*****. However, this is based on IF I get any benefits out of it and I continue to use it.

 

[Jeremiah]

Lets take this step by step...

He claims he's going to share the "secret" that big oil and car manufacturers don't want us to know. I can understand why big oil wouldn't want us to increase our MPG's. But manufacturers BENEFIT from cars that get better MPG's via increased sales, so I call #@$%! in the first 15 seconds of the video.


He probably benefited from doing stuff he should have been doing anyway (reducing weight, properly inflating tires, tuneup & oil change), but 1) he's claiming a 22% increase in mileage just from this? Seems far reaching. 2) he's only testing one fill for each data set. It's common for anyone to fluctuate several MPG between fills, so the data he provided isn't very conclusive.

Look, people on here get excited about an additive that gives 2-4MPG increases (for me that's a about a 10%). So - as a skeptic - I have a hard time believing a 1/4 cup (2 oz) of Acetone is going to give the kind of increases this guy's claiming (40%!!!) without far more fanfare. As much as I WANT to believe this, I'm filing it under, "If it sounds too good to be true..." until there's more repeated success stories.

 

[mechtech2]

La Pointe overstates his case about acetone, but doesn't invalidate it.
I can't believe how he maintains that straight 40W oil gets the best gas mileage!
If someone sees a definite benefit with using acetone in his car, scientific proof won't mean jack squat to him.
With care, we won't ruin our paint, and use very little in a tank. There are other more powerful solvents in gas, already.
So, try a few tanks. It may or may not work well in your car.

 

[Jeremiah]

Furthermore, the dude that does that video - he's all over Metacafe teaching you to do cheap stuff. He claims to make noise canceling headphones for like $5 that work better than his $200 pair 'he has at home'.

For those of you that don't know... metacafe PAYS the people who post videos if they receive enough traffic. So - does it makes sense for him to make outrageous claims to generate more hits on his video?

Also - he CLAIMS to have kept good records. Really? Why not show the receipts then?

Is this conclusive evidence that he's full of #@$%!? No, but it's evidence that he's more interested in generating traffic than he is in reporting good-accurate #'s.

 

[ekpolk]

Quote:

---

La Pointe overstates his case about acetone, but doesn't invalidate it.
I can't believe how he maintains that straight 40W oil gets the best gas mileage!
If someone sees a definite benefit with using acetone in his car, scientific proof won't mean jack squat to him.
With care, we won't ruin our paint, and use very little in a tank. There are other more powerful solvents in gas, already.
So, try a few tanks. It may or may not work well in your car.

---

MT: Good points, nothing I'd really disagree with there. My only concern would be the comment re solvents in gas. That's absolutely true. But obviously, not all solvents are the same, and they don't all dissolve the same solutes. So maybe all the materials in a fuel system can resist acetone, maybe they can't. I'm sure the car makers account for the solvents known to be in gasoline; I doubt they verify all parts to be acetone safe. Now that said, I experimented with it in my G35 for several months and detected no ill effects. But I can not rule out unseen damage, or longer term effects.

 

[John K]

There was a British site that was run by an engineer and he gave very logical explanations for why things such as acetone use don't work. I can't find the link nor remember the name, and haven't been able to find anything with the search engine. I know I've posted his site several times - like every time the acetone thing comes up.
Seems to me LaPointe said he got up to 44 mpg in a Neon... which is totally unbelieveabe to me. IMO acetone use is totally without merit.

 

[John K]

Doing more searching I found that LaPointe claims 48-52 mpg in his Neon, and when he discontinues the acetone use it drops by 20 mpg. Amazing...
Shouldn't this be in the additives section?